Wow--I am surprzed how well France does, it really licked US butt!. I am not surprized that UK and Germany fared so poorly--overall they are boring cultures!

geee, it wouldn't have anything to do with the close proximity of other coutries? I bet if they made the comparison more "fair" and calculated the number of people in the US who visit other regions of the US the numbers would much different.

Cynic-This survey is travel to countries, not parts of countries. You are suggesting that it more fair to compare apples to oranges. Should the statistics be changed so as to treat each state as a country? Now that makes alot of sense! Anyway, such a survey would be much more seriously flawed, now wouldn't it? To be fair, we would need to count each province in each of those other countries, right? And countries with many states/provinces and that are easily traveled to because they are in one large geographic region would have an ufair advantage, right? Note also that although Germany, Spain, and the UK are just as easy to get to from France, they did not fare so well. So easy access alone does not explan it. It is good to be cynical, but think before you open your mouth and get sarcastic. Thank you

Yeah Cynic--if it had to do with proximity to other European countries alone--then why were Germany and UK at the bottom? Your point don't make no sense. Don't forget also China and other big countries have alot of provinces. Oh and it would not be possible to count trips between US states since there are no check points. I guess France is a favorite, hands down!

This is amazing. I wonder how they calculate the numbers?

well, cynic DOES make a valid point.

the US is so vast, and really so far out of the way for anyone who isn't Canadian or Mexican... so the fact that we are that high on the list... anyone who comes here has to go through much more effort to get here.

for someone who is calling this apples and oranges - you are using specious reasoning. just because Germany/UK is so far below - has nothing to do with the US's attractiveness as a tourist destination. It may have everything to do with their UNattractiveness as a tourist destination in their own right (although re: UK I don't understand - it seems quite popular, but it is an island after all - so less easy than France for many).

long and short: to get to France is very easy for anyone in Western Europe. it's quite close to several borders - as close as any state in the US is, to another state (and actually quite closer as heck, Alaska to Maine - fuhgeddaboutit!!). truly, many countries in Europe are the size of American states. state/state is same as country/country, size wise anyway.

AND

remember, not everyone has piles of money. to be poor and in Germany, but go to France, is a short road trip. To get to the US for anyone - you gotta have some money behind you. (not a lot, just, some).

my .02

What I don't understand is how these figures define tourism. It seems they are based on a number of arrivals -- is there a separation of those for business from those for tourism?

As the original post said, those numbers are for arrivals. That would include people who are going on to another country after arriving at a French airport.

If you measure in "International Tourism Receipts (US$Billion), that same source lists the US first with US$85.2 billion, Spain at 31 and France at 29.9.

The top tourism *spenders* were US with $65 billion, Germany $48 billion, UK 37, Japan 32, and France 17.

http://www.world-tourism.org/market_research/data/pdf/highlightsupdatedengl.pdf

Devil--you are missing the point--those countries are also divided into provinces that are equivelent to states. But the survey is not measuring that! So why should it measure subparts of the US?

If want to look at size, it can work both ways. If we measure vistors to each state separately, then I can assure you that France would beat aNY US state hands down. After all, that much smaller country appears to have beat all the States COMBINED!!

You miss the point about the low numbers in UK and Germany. I said those low numbers indicate that proximity ALONE does not expain why France is so high.

You say US is farther away and isolated---well Europe is also far away from US and many other countries of the world. You point also suggests that an overwhelming number of the visitors to France are from other Europeran countries--but I have not seen any evidence of that, Can you point to any? You are making a big assumption--it may explain some of the huge amount, but probably not most of it (or again, the numbers of other European countries would probably be higher, unless everyone in Europe just wants to go to France but not other EU countries). RE UK, it is now very easy to get there from the continent. Anyway, if your explanation of difficulty getting there holds true, then it contradicts your assertion about travel to France-at least as it pertains to travellers from UK to France. So much for your theory regarding easy access to France from all other European countries. On a personal note, when meeting people from Europe, I have been surprized that many of them have not visited other European countries that were so close.

Als let us not forget if we want to consider difficulty in getting somewhere, I would think China an Russia are doing very well. They are destinations that are expensive to get to and difficult to get to also. It is pretty cheap to get to the US these days, especially from Europe. I tink it is far more exoenseive to get to Asia from Europe and I know it is from US.

So you see Devil, your arguments also have serious flaws.

Hey I thought Americans played by the rules. Here we have people like Cynical and Devil--who do not like the results and so they start claiming we should compare US states to countries. Sore losers. Anyway, those European countries all have theor own states (provinces) and so do places like China. Where will it ever end?

Anyone and Craig:

You must be French, so I'll explain this real slow:
None of the numbers count internal tourism. Most Americans (who are the biggest spenders on tourism) take internal vacations. The beach, Disney world, mountains, all that fun stuff. If this could be factored in (which it can't) there is no doubt the US would be the biggest tourist destination in the world.

These numbers count the British family taking a week on the beach in Spain or the German couple spending a weekend in Paris, but not the Bostonians spending a week in Florida.

Hello ignorant--Glad you admit you problem. Let me repeat--none of the numbers count internal tourism between parts of France (provinces), or between parts of other countries either. So what that Americans want to visit other pats of their own country. That is not relavent. Are you a daft thick-headed Ameriacan or just a dumb American?

You forgot some other things the French are #1 in, like bad breath.

Ellen--yes the people may be changing planes in France --but they may be changing planes in US also! So what.

Surprised:

It just gets worse with you. See if you can read this without having to move your lips:

1. There are a lot more Americans than frenchies
2. Americans spend a lot more on tourism than any other country
3. Americans overwhelmingly travel within their own country.

Do you see how it is idiotic to claim that France is a more popular tourist destination than the US? This is a useful study for comparing Euro countries against each other, but it's not really relevant in comparison to the country which both generates the biggest single block of tourists and serves as their primary destination.

If you need this in poorly-pronounced, degraded provincial latin, I'll have someone translate it into French.

Jim --you sound like a jelous american loser with a small mind and even smaller genitals! Are you jelous of the sexy french men with their handsome faces, lean bodies and very large pieces? I think so!

It's a lot easier for a Brit or German to travel to France than the US. So, of course, the French numbers are inflated.

I would be more interested in knowing how many overseas visitors are received by each country.

Olivier,
Oh yes, I am very jealous. I wish I was unemployed so I could smoke cigarettes all day with some cows with hairy armpits.

Again ignorant one--you fail to address the main point --we are not counting inter-country travel with this study. You probably do not realize (though I have said it twice) that France and other countries have areas that are equivelent to states-they are called provinces-the study does not count travel between such subparts either). I think you have (finally) realized this and have no rationale response. So you have tried to shift the subjct to money spent and population. (perhaps if we focus on population travel within a country, china might win!) Those factors have nothing to do with most poular tourist destinations.

Again, you are assuming the high numbers are the result of travel between European countries--but you have offered nothing to back it up. Just your guess.

BTW, the EU has far more people than the US.

Even if we were to count in the bogus way you suggest, then we should calculate travel to each US state independently, right? In that case, I would bet my money on France still beating any single US state (NYC is the most popular tourist destination--Cal is second). You lose ignorant one, but carry on in your bliss if you wish!

I can't believe anybody over the age of 18 got involved with a post containing the 'word' "surprized".

surprized says (do you know you are misspelling it? or not)

"If want to look at size, it can work both ways. If we measure vistors to each state separately, then I can assure you that France would beat aNY US state hands down. After all, that much smaller country appears to have beat all the States COMBINED!! "

>>>>> arrivals means arrivals from another country.... the countries over there are state sized. (or smaller). if you broke down the US numbers into who traveled from state/state (as they are country sized) - well, you would definitely beat most countries in Europe.

same with China by the way - it's VAST. have you looked at a map?

********
surprized goes on to say:

"also, You say US is farther away and isolated---well Europe is also far away from US and many other countries of the world. You point also suggests that an overwhelming number of the visitors to France are from other Europeran countries--but I have not seen any evidence of that, Can you point to any?"

>>>>can you point to anything the OTHER way. sounds like you are shifting the focus away from the main point... and you say EUROPE is far away from many other countries of the world? HUH? Europe is smaller than the US, and is made of HOW many countries?

************
and also:

"On a personal note, when meeting people from Europe, I have been surprized that many of them have not visited other European countries that were so close. "


>>>was this a representative sampling? were you visiting them in their home country?

********

and also you say:

"So you see Devil, your arguments also have serious flaws"

sounds like you at least acknowledge you might be a leetle bit wrong? (also?)

******

I say:

essentially, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. anyone with half a brain knows you can manipulate figures to mean anything you want them to. I hope you can understand that? I myself am not surprised...

Steve--you are assuming facts not in evidence (that the numbers are inflated because of intra-European travel). And if the ease of travel between European countries was the ONY explanation, then why are numbers for Germany and UK so low? Explain please and offer some evidence for your theories.

Also, I am not sure this study even measures train trips or car trips between European countries.

Ignorance: "nomen est omen"
1. There are a lot more Americans than frenchies.
Would you mind spelling both with a capital letter? Of course, you're right, , but the figures are not about how many are travelling, but how many are visiting another country.
2. Americans spend a lot more on tourism than any other country
Of course, but that's not the point.
3. Americans overwhelmingly travel within their own country.
Exactly, but that's not the issue here.

These statistics do not include Parisians going to the Riviera either, or the miilions from the french Atlantic who go skiing in the french Alps. That's internal tourism.
However, the US figures do include the millions of Caribbeans and Central Americans who fly into Houston and Miami for a day or two merely to shop due to economic problems in their own country. Not really tourism, is it...? But hey, who's counting. Statistics NEVER give the exact picture, but they do show a trend. And the result is: if France was such a bad place, it would be # 6, 10 or 25, but not among the first three.

Encore -i think you should focus on your logic skills and not worry about spelling. You have once again ignored that these countries all have provinces and yet we are not counting those. Just because the countries in Europe may be as big as states -does not mean that subparts of those countries should not be counted.

You are too funny-you want to count travel between US states and then you say we must define travel for these purposes as between countries.

You still have not offered a shred of evidence that the high numbers in France are the result of travel from other Europeans.

As for your point about US being far awy from other countries, your agrument is convoluted. Moreover, you are again assuming facts not in evidence.

I suggest you go back to school and take elementary logic. But then again you are too focused on petty things like spelling.

No American loser Jim --you are busy working your butt off so you could find a safe place to live in one of your crime-infested cities or living in a flat dull suburbia with zero style. You are also dating OBESE cows that you call women who slober down greacy burgers and pizza.

BTW, France outranks US in best places to live in international studies, much less violent crime, better education and less poverty.

as well as a higher unemployment rate! don't forget that!

hum-WEll in the US they do not even count millions of unemployed! So your figures are inaccurate. We also take care of people who can find jobs. And wouldn't you rather be unemployed, highly educated and safe, then working your butt off in some lousy job, living in fear of violent crime, surrounded by poverty and uneducated?

Olivier: please cool it. I love France but not the type of language you're uttering right now. I guess you went a bit heavy on the apéro tonight, right?

Hey "not surprized"--sorry--it is only in response to that ignorant person -did you see what he wrote?

hey people, calm down, why is everyone so upset that France does so well in this survey? I realise Americans like to think they do best in everything, but please guys, you can't win 'em all.

(And for that matter, leave off the UK. 25 million ain't so low for our size - only half that of the US after all, so I'd say we do pretty well for tourism. Particularly when you think people hardly come here to lie on the beach, which must wipe about 25 mil. off our statistics for starters. Just a thought. Byeeee.)

Olivier: I know. He started off with the "bad breath", you came back with the "small genitals" and it just got worse. Whenever you see one of those dumb remarks, either ignore it, or reply in a subtle fashion ("bad breath ?" "Yes, I just had some delicious aïoli") but don't shoot back.
I'm having a Ricard as I write this, and it helps to cool me down. Santé!

Devil--for the record, these statistics were found on the web site of the major US trade association for the travel industry. I really doubt such an organization would be promoting figures that it believed were "manipulated" in favor of France and against the US or were "unfair" as you and others (maybe just you in cognito) have claimed.

I think those statistics come not so much from airport arrivals but more from hotels and house renting datas. If some people find unfair the fact to compare a big continent such as the US with just one country like France, we could compare the statistics of the EU towards the US, I still beleive US would not make it #1

I used to care, but now I don't.

Olivier: I know. He started off with the "bad breath", you came back with the "small genitals" and it just got worse. Whenever you see one of those dumb remarks, either ignore it, or reply in a subtle fashion ("bad breath ?" "Yes, I just had some delicious aïoli") but don't shoot back.
I'm having a Ricard as I write this, and it helps to cool me down. Santé!

For the record, the statistics were not from the "website of a major US trade association." They are from the World Tourism Organization, which is headquartered in Europe.

Why on Earth did my reply show up twice??
It must be the Ricard... Later on, I'll go for some Jack Daniels. Good night folks, stop the fighting and enjoy what's best both sides of the Atlantic. (oops, I just gave away which side of the Atlantic I'm writing from..).

This is the kind of petty arguement that starts a war. Numbers don't really prove anything. All of the countries on that list are great destinations.I think maybe I will start to visit some countries that aren't on the list. There is much more to see in the world than the top 10.

Steve --I obtained the figures from post on a US trade association. I will get you the exact cite in a while and post it for you. (I have it saved on favorite places on my other pc). They obviosly are posted on more than one place.

Well, "Not Surprized," you might have gotten your data from the web site of a US tourism organization, but their original source, which you yourself credited, is indeed the World Tourism Organization, which has its main offices in Spain and has over 100 member nations. Here's the web source for the data (again):

http://www.world-tourism.org/market_research/data/pdf/highlightsupdatedengl.pdf

France does not have an overwhelming victory in getting tourist dollars--the U.S. does.

In raw numbers, the U.S. gets almost three times as much revenue as France does--$85.2 billion for the U.S., $29.9 billion for France.

Furthermore, the 50.9 million arrivals in the U.S. spend about $85.2 billion--or about $1,674 per arrival.

The 75.5 million arrivals in France spend about $29.9 billion--or about $396 per arrival.

So the U.S. appears to be more of a tourism destination, while France appears to be more of a stop along the way or a country that attracts more day-trippers than the U.S. does.

I like 'em both, so they'll each get some of my tourism dollars.

I was aware of the 4 first tourist destinations (France, US, Spain and Italy) but what surprises me a lot is to find China at the 5th place, with so much visitors. It's not like China had many rich neighbors, or was convenient to travel to from rich countries (where people can afford to travel). Also, China doesn't seem to spend millions in advertizing for tourism (compare it to, for instance Ireland. I don't know if it's the same in the US, but here, they advertize for tourism everywhere). I don't think China is reputated for its hotels, beaches, puclic transportation, etc...

So, indeed, I'm amazed they get so much visitors. I'm wondering where these people come from. I suppose there must be Japanese tourists, but apart from that?

Mind you, I don't underestimate the value of a trip to China. I would really like to go there. I'm only surprised that so much people actually travel to this country.

Ellen--I did not credit anything--I simply cut and paste. As I explained, the info, apparentrly created by the WTO, was on the web site of a trade asociation. I did not indicate that the trade assoc. compiled the data--but that they posted it on their site.

Bobby--money is not the point of this study--it is number of people who visit. In that category, France won by a landslide. You can attempt to diminish that victory by focusing on dollar amounts and guessing that it may be explained by quick stop overs to France, but the facts remain clear.

Derick,

Here's an excerpt from Anyone Surprized's initial post:

"...how do you France bashers explain France's overwhelming victory in getting tourist dollars...?"

So I was refuting that statement. That's why I focused on tourist dollars--not the arrivals. Besides, the dollar amounts were mentioned in that same report that documented the number of arrivals.

It's not my fault if the original poster asked a question about tourist dollars and then proceeded to post a listing of numbers of tourists arriving.

France is the best and Americans know it!!! Americans want everyone to fall all over their feet. If they dont get showered in attention they think that they are being snubbed.

Yes, I had the info. about the number of trips and I mistakenly concluded it translated to more money. I believe it was Ellen who corrected me. I wont make excuses for making that assumption or the typo (ok it was well after midnight when I did it--look for yourselves). But I did find on that WTO (which I did not use last night) that France,Italy and Spain garnered about $90 billion, thereby surpassing the US at about 80 something billion. And they are much smaller countries.
Europe as a whole had about 230 billion to the US's 123 billion.

Again, do not try to take away from France's victory on the subject of most tourists.

Estimation for 2001 are giving France still #1 with 76, Spain comes #2 with 49, US #3 with 44 (sept 11 is the main cause for the US loss of near 7 milions tourist entries compared to the year before)

Firstly, I want to point out to
one of the many intelligent people in this forum that the USA is not a continent, although they may wish to believe it to be. Secondly, there are great aspects of both the US and France. France has been rated number one in healthcare in the world, has a vast and elaborate culture, and a generally good standard of living for everyone. The US has great economic strength, a vast country with many things to see and do, and it has some of the top educational institutions in the world. Lets stop the whining.