alexandrak

Hello,

My fiance and I will be honeymooning at the beginning of August for 16 days (including travel time) and are looking for a suggested itinerary. We initially did not realize how large and far apart the landmarks and must see areas in France are, and I'm now going crazy trying to plan a feasible trip for us.

We would like to start in Paris, spend 10 days in France, then head over to Belgium and spend 5 days between Brussels and Bruges.

We generally want to "see it all" but I am starting to sense that that will be absolutely impossible with our trip length and desire to see both countries. We would really like to stick to starting in Paris and ending in Belgium if possible, and especially would like to find an airport we could buy round trip tickets out of as it will save us hundreds of dollars (we are from Toronto). Paris seems like the best bet, but it seems a bit foolish to go all the way to Belgium and then backtrack.

This past summer we covered a LOT of southern Italy in the same trip length (Rome, Naples, Pompeii, Lecce, Matera, Amalfi Coast & Sardinia), but France is obviously much larger, and we are desiring a more relaxing trip for our honeymoon. We would like to not rent a car if possible, or at least only for a couple of days, as the Italy adventure really felt like we were on the road at all times.

We love history (I'm sure my fiance will want to see Normandy, Saint Michel), are MAJOR foodies, and, of course, adore wine and beer. I'd like a couple of days in the countryside doing the bed and breakfast thing if possible.

My thoughts so far are:
Fly into Paris, spend 5 days there including Versailles (Would Normandy be doable here?)
Train to a different Northern region for 5 days - There are so many recommended regions but all seem to be south (Provence, Riviera - I am sensing that they should be a trip for another time).
Train to Belgium from here?

We cannot afford 5 star accommodations but generally have pretty rich tastes when it comes to food and lodging.

I know that this is not the ideal time to travel in France, but being a teacher, it is non-negotiable for me. How will the weather be?

As you can see, we're lost.
Help, please!

PalenQ

Train to a different Northern region for 5 days ->

Northern France is rather grim - huge slag heaps mar the landscape - the rust belt of France - old industrial cities on the decline - but there are some nice cities like Lille and Amiens (great cathedral) but trains are not great there for going to smaller towns - I'd head straight away from Paris to Belgium and say instead of northern France head up to Amsterdam and enjoy one of the world's most gorgeous and interesting cities - maybe do a day trip to a nice Dutch regional town like Haarlem or Delft or many others.

For lots on trains there check www.thalys.com (thalys is about the only way to go directly between Paris and Brussels; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

Or forget Brussels a city that underwhelms many (but which does have its pluses though it may take time to ferret them out) and take a TGV train Paris to Lille - stay there a few days then take a train from there to Bruges without having to go thru Brussels then Amsterdam for 3-4 days - would make a lovely trip.

I've ridden a bike thru northern France several times and it IMO is the least attractive and interesting place the France. Lille though is more and more a charmer but still rather grim in its surroundings.

alexandrak

We definitely want beauty and culture. You have definitely turned me off of that plan. So then, I guess my next question is - which region of France worth visiting, is the most Northern? Dijon?

Amsterdam doesn't really appeal to me on this trip but I could perhaps be persuaded. I think we'd rather soak in more French culture if possible.

Andrew

"Open-jaw" flights into Paris/out of Brussels or vice versa may not be more expensive than a round between Toronto and either one. Have you checked? Don't check two one-way flights; check it as a "multi-city" trip. (e.g. on Kayak.com). It may even be cheaper to do an open-jaw than a round-trip.

Bruges is a wonderful town, but in August I'd expect it to be quite busy with tourists. Paris maybe less so because the locals may be gone on holiday. Brussels is not most people's favorite town - the beautiful Grand Place is all lit up at night and worth seeing, but unless you can dig up lots of things you want to see there, I wouldn't invest much time there, personally.

You could also add other Belgian cities like Ghent, also really beautiful but less touristy than Bruges. Antwerp wasn't my favorite city but it has some interesting museums. I quite enjoyed a day trip to the little town of Leuven, close to Brussels.

FYI, if you fly out of Brussels airport, you need not actually stay IN the city of Brussels the night before. Belgium is a small country; both Antwerp and Leuven have direct connections to Brussels airport's train station. I spent the final night of my Belgium trip in 2013 in Antwerp before flying out of Brussels Airport - very simple by train.

alexandrak

If we cut out Brussels then could we potentially do more like 12 days in France and 3 in Belgium and just stick to Bruges? Would that make things easier? Or should we still do 5 days and replace Brussels with Ghent?

I did just check Kayak but there is still about a $400 price difference to fly out of Brussels - additionally, there seem to be no direct flights from Brussels to Toronto, which is a pain. Flying out of Amsterdam does seem to be the same price as Paris round trip...

pariswat

hi

Congrats on your wedding.

Paris will occupy you for at least 5 days, including a daytrip to Versailles, which I would recommend to substitute with Vaux le Vicomte.
Do check, both castles are fabulous and Vaux gets probably 10% of the visitors Versailles gets.

From what you say, you will not like the french Riviera - overcrowded with people who want to be lazy on a beach.

Provence is quite nice but you don't have enough time imo.

You can indeed go to Normandy (don't forget the caps (blanc and gris nez) higher up towards the north - not sure it is still Normandy there). Beautiful.

But I'd say in your case maybe the Loire valley will fit better - full of history, full of castles, not that crowded, fabulous wine, nice weather, less hot than in the south, gorgeous food.
Best is to rent a car, but I think that albeit being a former colony of the British, you are civilized enough to drive on the right side of the road and count in kms too.

Belgium is of course even more beautiful and has the immense advantage to be populated by extremely nice and very smart people, albeit very humble. Your servitor is a perfect - and modest - example of this incredible people about whom Julius Caesar said 'De omnis Gallis Belgi fortissimi sunt'. Caesar was a good judge of people...

Brugge would be indeed a must (I'd say one day max), base yourself at Gent, which is larger and more vibrant than Brugge and very very nice. From there go one day in Bruxelles (you may want to stay there), it is a gem. People who don't like Bruxelles have no taste. Be sure to see the grand-place, the sablon, visit a few exceptionnal museums as much for the museum as for the house (musée des instrumetns de musique and musée de la BD. Both in houses built by the famous architect Horta). Ah and if French start to be able to sepak correct enough English, we started one generation before them and master your language much better. Of course on top of being bilingual. Sometimes trilingual. Did I say we were modest ?

If you want to overstay in Belgium (for me 3-4 days are correct, stay more in Paris if you can), and you are a fan of the battle of the Bulge, do go there - just tell us. You'll need a car.

I don't find it intelligent at all to spend your last night far away from Brussels airport (BRU - situated in Zaventem), you may face unexpected problems (like strikes, we kind of like strikes and contrary to France you don't have ONE single train running on days of major strike.
So just spend the last night close to the gare centrale and have a last dinner at place sainte-catherine. In case of problems, your taxi will be less costly than the one I took last week from Lille to Paris.

Or just backtrack from Bruxelles to Paris CDG - you have fast trains direct to CDG from Bruxelles midi (dead center). Reserve in advance and it will cost about 30 € per trip per person.

Weather : august is usually a good time, some say it is very hot in Paris and you need AC, I've never needed AC in Paris.
As for Belgium, we usually experience at least one month of good weather in summer. July or august. Both is extremely rare - happened last year, but it is imho the first year since I was born, and I'm not getting young. BUT Belgium under rain is quite normal so the place is somehow made for it... at least can cope with rain.

Enjoy your trip

Andrew

You should read up a little more on Ghent before committing to do that and Bruges, especially if Brussels costs so much more to fly out of than Paris. I loved Bruges and enjoyed Ghent, but it's up to you - see if Ghent is somewhere you'd like to visit. Same with Amsterdam: don't feel the need to fly out of there (instead of going back to Paris) if Amsterdam doesn't excite you.

Maybe it's worth your time to take the train back to Paris to fly out, especially if you can get an afternoon flight back to Toronto from Paris. Then you might take an early train directly to CDG airport from Belgium to fly out the same day. I'm not sure if is worth doing this or not (or even how much money it would save you). Some people are uncomfortable risking a train to plane connection like this (what if the train is late or there's a strike?), but I've done it a few times and not worried too much about it, and you might get trip interruption insurance pretty easily.


You could spend the entire time in France, too. Normandy is lovely, and if you enjoy World War II history you could see the D-Day beaches and visit Bayeux and Caen. I'd recommend renting a car for a few days here (even if only rent it in Normandy and take trains from Paris, which is what I did years ago). In a different direction, you could train up to Alsace and visit towns like Strasbourg and Colmar. I spent a night in Colmar last year on the way to Germany and really loved Colmar. Alsace is a very pretty area. It's about a 2.5 hour TGV train ride up to Strasbourg. You could rent a car up there for a few days, too. (I didn't on that trip - I only had the one night in Colmar.)

Or you could train somewhere else in France for a few days then just train back to Paris and fly out. I recommend a Rick Steves France book. There may also be some Rick Steves France episodes on YouTube to show what some of these places are like (including Belgium).

Sassafrass

OK, your trip is still over 9 months away. Get some guidebooks and google images of places online. Check out multi-destination tickets from several places.

To go to some places you mentioned in France would require you spend most of your time in France. Not a bad idea, really. You would probably want a car for part of it though.

Bruges is very small with a charming center, a romantic place. Nice for a night at least.

I won't say, "go to Amsterdam," but will say, "perhaps check it out a bit more" before discounting it completely, especially if multi city tickets cost no more than RT Paris. It is a lovely city with beautiful architecture and fine museums. There are also many, gorgeous towns nearby. You could stay in a small town or village and take a short train ride into the city, still good for using that airport for departure. Look at some of the towns near Amsterdam.

The Alsace is really charming, but you would need to rent a car for a few days.

nytraveler

Typically open jaw - Multi-destination on the web sites - flights are o more than half of the RT to each city. Can;t guarantee it if one airline is having a sale - but this is almost always the case and avoids wasting a whole day or your trip.

I think in your time doing Paris, Belgiuma nd Amsterdam makes sense.

If you prefer to see more of FRance I would add Strasbourg to Paris - since with it;s Germanic flavor it's very different and gives you easy access to the Alsatian wine road and Colmar. This could be pared with Brussels/Brugges and Ghent.

We stayed in Brugges, an incredibly charming town and visited both Ghent and Brussels for the day (but we were driving so no dealing with train schedules - but I know the trips between them are short.

You really need to do some reading about these places and decide on what YOUR must sees are - since otherwise your just following the opinions of others, which may be very different than yours.

(And to see just France in any depth you would need about 6 weeks. And far northern France is quite industrial and not very pleasant.)

Scootoir

Congratulations on your marriage, sounds like you have a lovely honeymoon in the works.

My husband and I have been to Paris, Normandy, the Loire and Bruges and would be happy to return to any of them. If you have 16 days including travel time you have about 13.5 days on the ground depending on when your flights arrive. Travel to Bruges then back to Paris for round trip flights and you can see how your time is reduced further. For our next trip we hope to fly to Paris and then take trains to Bruges and start from there. We’re always pretty wrecked from the flights (10 hours from west coast U.S.) so why not get right on a train and head to Bruges? If you do that and spend 3 nights there you would have 10 days in Paris (if my calculations are correct) and could even make a day trip or two out of the city.

Another option is to arrive in Paris and spend the first night at the Hotel New Orient near the Gare St. Lazare and travel to Caen by train the next morning. We did this on two trips and had few problems driving in Normandy. We were able to get to all of the D-Day sites that we wanted to see along with spending a day at Mont St. Michel. We stayed in Bayeux on both trips and loved it for the history, cathedral and restaurants. You could also stay in small hotels and inns while traveling through the countryside. We still haven’t been to Giverny and Honfleur both in Normandy.

We found it even easier to drive in the Loire than Normandy but perhaps that’s because we had the experience driving in Normandy on previous trips. We took the train to Tours from Paris and picked up a rental car. We stayed in a lovely chateau hotel and a small inn while in the Loire.

With my job I could never travel in summer but even in September we were really glad to have an air conditioned hotel in Paris one year when it was in the 90s for the first few days after our arrival. I highly recommend having air con in August. Please let us know what you finally decide.

jamikins

You may save $400 on the flights but have you added the cost of returning to Paris to catch your flight home plus the wasted travel time?

pariswat

1,1 hours on train. - and 20 min to reach Gare du midi
About 30 euros per trip.

Taxi or Rer from Paris center to CDG equals 40 min and 50 or 20 euros.

jamikins

So worst case it will cost $160, so save $240. The hassle wouldn't be worth it to me as I would rather spend the last day in the place I am flying out of so I would also have to change hotels for that last night which eats up more time...

PalenQ

TGV trains from Brussels to Paris stop at CDG-TGV - terminal 2 - lots of hotels in periphery of airport - can spend the whole day in Brussels (or Amsterdam or any place) and end up at CDG at night.

candj83

What do you wish to see in Normandy besides MSM? We very much enjoyed Normandy but I can't say that I would find the WWII sights romantic or relaxing, IMHO. Perhaps save the Normandy area for a return trip, as this trip has a romantic purpose? If you really want to see MSM, maybe it could be done as a day trip from Paris.

I like pariswat's suggestion for the Loire Valley. Since you enjoy wine, maybe consider a few nights in Beaune? I haven't visited either the Loire or Beaune yet, only read about them, but they sound lovely and worth considering.

Bruges is a 3 hour train ride from Paris. If you aren't sure how interested you are in other cities, you could just spend a few nights here. I've read that Bruges is magical at night after many tourists depart.

FWIW, we really enjoyed Hotel Atmospheres in Paris. Central location, nicely appointed, and relatively affordable, for us at least, at €212 a night with breakfast.

alexandrak

Thank you so much for all of the wonderful suggestions - it's really given us a lot to think about. I know we have some time, and I know I can research on my own, which I have been, but that's what this forum is for, right? I am feeling overwhelmed with research as it is such a huge region and everything I desire to see is so inconveniently far from each another.

I think that we will stay in Paris in the beginning, around 5 days, and include a day trip to Versailles in that. We'll visit the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Notre Dame, all the big tourist attractions, and then from there, maybe head out to Normandy (We both LOVE WWII history, and I doubt my fiance would be willing to miss that) and maybe skip MSM. MSM seems like something that everyone recommends you visit but for the length of our trip I'm not sure it will fit in. Curious what people think about that - is it okay to skip or will we regret it? We do love history and visiting the big sights, but it would be lovely to get the busyness out of the way in this first 1/3 of the trip and then spend the rest of our time soaking up culture in a more relaxing atmosphere.

We will probably fly out of Brussels, as I have in fact found some great multi-city flight options after all - didn't see them on Kayak but there seem to be a ton on Sky Scanner. I am thinking 3 nights in either Ghent or Bruges (depending after looking into them which one we prefer, but including a day trip to whichever one we're not staying in) and then our last night in Brussels. We definitely want to include Belgium, and it's not that we're uninterested in Amsterdam in the future, rather that we don't want to pack too much in on one trip - we'd rather have more time in France.

Also, I should mention that on our last trip to Italy, we missed our flight home to Toronto due to an earlier delayed flight with a different airline. We then had to buy new, extremely expensive flights home and our extensive insurance did not cover any of it. So we are now very leery of traveling on the day of our flight, so I think flying out of Brussels will make us both feel much better.

So, 5 days in Paris (Aug 5-10), and ending with 4 days in Belgium (Aug 16-20) - that means we have roughly 5 more days in France to play with. Would we need to stay overnight in Normandy if we want to do a DDay tour?

The Loire Valley looks beautiful, but when I see pictures of Provence with its rolling fields, lavender and sunflowers, my heart skips a beat. Are there any other less southern regions with similar scenery?

I am finding researching the various regions extremely overwhelming, but think we should not go south of Bergundy or Loire Valley if Belgium is important to us. In terms of beauty (such as valleys and flowers and less about castles and buildings - this is where I want some nature, think countryside eating cheese and baguettes while sipping wine and looking at flowers - basically what I picture when I think of Provence!), is Loire the best bet? Would a train from there to Belgium be fairly straightforward or would we need to go back to Paris?

Thank you again for being so helpful and sharing your suggestions - in general I have never had a difficult time planning a trip but this one is really challenging. I know I have a million questions and I appreciate your patience.

pariswat

ther are some trains (a few pre day max) that go from Nice to Bruxelles. Don't remember where they stop - either Aginon and o Lyon and (Marseille).

No more lavender in boom in august I'm afraid.

There are some low cost flights.
From Toulon (hyeres) or Marseille to Charleroi or Brussels.
Jetairways and Easyjet from there. Probably other airports/companies.

mvg

jamikins

We loved the week we spent in Alsace
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pug_gi...57644953485474

We also spent 5 nights in Loire Valley
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pug_gi...57637219497403

No matter what you decide I am sure you will have a lovely time!

alexandrak

jamikins did you prefer one over the other? Did you find one had more "natural beauty" vs the other?

jamikins

I may have missed it but will you have a car?

I liked the small villages scattered so close together in Alsace. And the food was excellent! The vines are everywhere along the wine route and very lovely.

Just asked my hubby and he preferred Alsace as well. He thiught the villages were nicer as well. If you like wine you won't run out of places to taste.

You may also want to consider Burgundy. To me the area between Dijon and Beaune was quintessential France the first time I visited. The food is s but heavy for summer but delicious. Will post our pics of Burgundy...