Macaroni09

Hello Fodorites!

With your help, DH and I spent a dream month in Spain 2013. Now we'd like to explore France. We love history and museums, and have been reading threads of great adventures you have shared. We like active outdoors things and small villages.

France looks to be more of a navigational challenge than Spain. (Hope I am wrong!) It is so helpful to know the best way to connect from one area to another before designing an itinerary. Rick Steve's and Lonely Planet were immense help making connections from place to place in Spain. I am not finding this info as readily on France. I speak French, hubby loves to navigate on foot and by car. Together, it works.

Best flights look to be Air France R/T to CDG.

Here are my thoughts: (September 2015)

Paris (8 days)
Chartres (day trip or over night en route to Loire Valley?)
Loire Valley (Train or car to get there?) Car when there, for sure.
Dordogne (Yes, we have Stu's itinerary!! yea!!) I used up all the printer paper. ha ha
Gorges de Verdon
Provence
Chamonix??? (Always wanted to see it but the Aiguille looks to be pretty frosty.
Mer de Glace would ring his bell, though.)
Yvoire and/or Lake Geneva
Burgundy?
Alsace

We would like to use a car when necessary, but take trains for a break.

Please mention anything you love that will make us want to change up this plan.

Merci mille fois!

StuDudley

I also have a 35 page itinerary for Provence & Cote d'Azur. I have another short one for Alsace. Then I have something I did for a friend about Burgundy & the Alps/Annecy.

A month in France really isn't much time. Assuming you have 28 days less 8 in Paris - that's 20 days to visit the other stuff outside of Paris.

Consider flying into Paris & spend 8 nights there. Do a day trip to Chartres from Paris by train (add an extra day to Paris if you like). Then take the TGV to Tours/St Pierre des Corps, rent a car, and spend 3-4 days visiting chateaux. Then drive to the Dordogne/Sarlat area and spend 5 nights there. Then a short drive to the Rocamadour area and spend 2-3 nights there. Visit Pech Merle cave, St Cirq Lapopie, beautiful Cele river, Figeac, Gouffre de Padirac, Carennac, Autoire, and Loubressac. Then head out early for Provence - but stop in Carcassonne for a 2 1/2 hr visit.

Spend 6 nights in Provence.

Then drive 3 1/2 hrs to Lake Annecy and spend 5 nights in the Alps/Annecy region. Wait for the weather to be perfect and do a day trip to Mt Blanc. I would not do a one-nighter in Chamonix and "hope" the weather is nice enough to enjoy Mt Blanc.

Leave Annecy late in the afternoon and drive to Yvoire and spend 2 nights there. We're not fans of Geneva - the city or the towns like Thonon and Evian. Yvoire is a gem - but quite small.

Drive 1 hr to the Geneva airport, return the car on the French side, and fly home from Geneva. Or take the TGV from Annecy to Paris and fly home.

You could visit Paris last if you take the TGV from CDG to St Pierre. However, if you are prone to jet lag - I would not want to be exploring chateaux all day and trying to keep awake. Paris is a good spot to recover from jet lag.

Stu Dudley

Michael

Rent the car at the end of your stay in Paris. Start your trip, and just be willing if you discover that you do not have enough time. Of course, that means that generally you do not reserve rooms ahead of time.

You have worked out a nice round trip but don't put pressure on yourself to meet the schedule. If necessary, you might discover that you do not have time for Alsace.

Michael

Browsing through these pictures might give you some ideas of what to see.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca...7622845845243/

Macaroni09

Hello Stu Dudley!
Thank you, I would love the Alsace, Burgundy and Alpes/Annecy info. I'll email you asap! We'll look at about 34 days--you are right--better to enjoy being there.

Great suggestions!!

Would it be better to add a few days in August (Paris) or go a bit into October?

Macaroni09

Michael,
I have just spent hours enjoying your phenomenal photos and enjoying your trip reports. Definitely my lucky day that you responded to this post. As hoped, there is much more researching to do to come up with a great plan. Do you think it is safe to book the flights now, then put the pieces together?

StuDudley

>>Do you think it is safe to book the flights now, then put the pieces together?<<

Put the pieces together, then book the flights.

Stu Dudley

Michael

I usually establish how much time I will spend in Europe and then book flights for arrival there and departure from there. The rest depends on the itinerary that I work out.

Sarastro

When you leave Paris, rent a car for the duration. There are one time charges each time you rent, no need to pay them but once. If you have an American Express card, sign up for their primary insurance coverage for only $25 per rental up to 5 weeks.

If I were to spend a month driving through France, and I have spent a month driving through France on more than one occasion, after Paris I would drive to Giverny to see Monet´s garden then continue to Normandy to see Honfleur, the invasion beaches, the American Cemetery, St Malo, Mont St Michel just to name a few highlights.

From this area I would drop down to the Loire Valley for at least 3-4 days, continue to Bordeaux and the Dordogne, then Languedoc, Western Provence, the Côte d´Azur, then North towards Geneva. That could easily consume a month. I would leave the car there or maybe reach into Burgundy, Beaune perhaps and then take the train back to CDG for a departure the next morning.

I don´t think you will have time for Alsace. For September, now is not too soon to firm up hotels for Paris. September and October are high season for hotels here and the best ones book early. As you travel, you´ll also need to book hotels for early September almost anywhere you go. Later in the month you can be more flexible.

If I were to recommend one book, it would be the Michelin Red Guide which lists the best hotels and restaurants throughout France at all price points. The book is available in app form as well. I occasionally take a look at a Rick Steves book for information about hotels/restaurants I would want to avoid. The Michelin Green guides are also a treasure trove of great travel information. Find them at any used book store - these do not need to be the latest editions to be useful.

For rental information:
www.autoeurope.com

For train information:
www.voyages-sncf.com

For hotel reservations:
http://www.logis-de-france.fr/
http://www.silencehotel.com/
http://www.tables-auberges.com/

Chambres d´hôtes should be you primary source for places to stay (you say you speak French so this should be easy for you):
http://www.fleursdesoleil.fr/
http://www.cheznous.com/
http://www.gites-de-france.fr/
http://gitelink.com/
http://www.maisonsdhotesdefrance.fr/

For the Michelin guides:
http://restaurant.michelin.fr/applications-mobiles

The one essential map you must have (more important than a GPS):
http://tinyurl.com/ooslyqa

Jeff801

Because you will be driving a lot in rental cars, I think it is essential that you have a good map handy.The GPS in many rental cars seem to be somewhat whimsical.(That is a substantial euphemism.) The GPS often will take one on less than the best or faster roads.

I would get a spiral bound Michelin motoring atlas of France when you get the rental car. Available,if no where else,at the first autoroute service area you come to. You will find the ability to check GPS directions that seem strange to you worth the 15 euros.

Gretchen

Sarastro has my vote for an itinerary. I probably wouldn't spend too long on the Cote d'Azur or go to Geneva. A month will fly past.
I agree about the map vs GPS--and you can see things maybe just a little off the route that you might want to duck into.
Could leave the car in Provence, train back to Paris for a final few days of memories and then leave.

tom_mn

Chateaux: Prepare for the possibility of not caring much for these which was my experience. The Loire is a flat, heavily populated, rather industrial area which tends to be more rainy and grey than most of France. And I absolutely detest period decorated rooms with red upholstery and gilding on the walls and ceilings. Barf.

Coquelicot

If you have a car after you leave Paris, you can go anywhere, and usually the back roads are much more interesting than the fast roads.

We drive from one scenic village to another...

http://www.les-plus-beaux-villages-de-france.org/en

and one flowery village to another...

http://www.cnvvf.fr/

We travel from one good inexpensive restaurant to another, using the Michelin Rouge or their website...

viamichelin.com

Whenever we see a scenic route, we take it. They are marked in green on the Michelin maps. Our old (2006) spiral road atlas still works (1 cm = 2 km). We need that for the big picture, but we also buy the yellow departmental maps too for each are we'll spend time in. These are slightly larger scale (1 cm = 1.5 km).

Since this is your first trip you'll want to hit the highlights, and that may mean a fast pace.

Sarastro has already mentioned Mont Saint-Michel. I second it.

StuDudley

>>France looks to be more of a navigational challenge than Spain. (Hope I am wrong!)<<

France has much better signage than Spain does, IMO. We found it difficult to drive in Spain - especially around the Basque area where almost every city has 2 names that can be quite different.

>>Whenever we see a scenic route, we take it. They are marked in green on the Michelin maps<<

Michelin loves forests. Often roads through forests where all you can see is tree trunks, are marked as green roads. Also, Michelin loves roads by beautiful rivers, when all you can see is the foliage - and not the river.

Stu Dudley

Michael

<i>The Loire is a flat, heavily populated, rather industrial area which tends to be more rainy and grey than most of France</i>

That sounds more like a description of the Picardie.

<i>And I absolutely detest period decorated rooms with red upholstery and gilding on the walls and ceilings.</i>

That does not apply to all the castles--Langeais for one:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca...57624575935008 and subsequent pictures

A list of detestable castles might be in order.

dwdvagamundo

I also disagree with Tom's description--although it's a good description of Tours and the exurbs of Orleans, but not the rest of the Loire Valley. Whatever you do, don't stay in Tours. Amboise is a short distance away but a much nicer city.

One bit of advice for driving in France--the toll roads are very expensive, but they will save you so much time when making long-distance moves that they are worth it. The surface roads go through small villages which, while picturesque, make it very difficult to cover any great distance in a time-effective manner.

We found the navigational challenge in France to be that a road sign will point the way, but will not indicate which way to go at the next fork of the road so we would soon lose track of the route. We wasted quite a bit of time our first week or so. Don't use GPS. Did find that the Google Maps app on my smart phone could get us back on track.

Gretchen

Good ole Tom--probably couldn't get his hidden children in for free.

In France you need to know the next town/city you are going to, not the route number. So the roundabout will point you in the direction Tours, not route X.

Macaroni09

Thanks to ALL!! You guys are the greatest.

DVD, so glad to know that the Amex insurance works in Europe. 5 Weeks it is!! DH just gave me the nod, so maybe there is time for Alsace. Have read of and fallen in love with Colmar.

I taught French in a past life--took students to England, France, Spain, Italy. Have enjoyed France many times, but always the highlights, never enough time to poke.

Wise advice to plan first, then do flights. I have an ever-shifting itinerary. Looks like it's crunch time.

Have seen most of the places "on tour" but without wine and romance. Plan to re-read Normandy Beaches, Honfleur, etc. Giverny was also on the 1st list. Plan to stay at Amboise in the Loire, just spending 2-3 days for DH to enjoy the fine food and architecture. I'll always remember being up on the roof at Chambord.

GPS led us astray once in Andalucia, so the Michelin spiral is on my list. Coquelicot, Les plus beaux villages, I can't wait!! Especially like the part about traveling from one good inexpensive restaurant to another!!

Macaroni09

How many books fit into a backpack? I have the Green Guide France, (it's huge), also need the Red Guide and the Michelin spiral. Will have notes on my ipad mini.

Macaroni09

Sarastro!!! Your ideas have really helped prioritize. We like the idea of renting a car a single time. Have to remember that we won't actually be on the road all of the time. But do you rent it in Paris?? SNCF has Paris->Amboise for $19. Chartres from Montparnasse is $20 pp each way. Logistics!