with a week in Florence, won't you have time to do a day trip from there? get the train and you'll be there in about an hour, give or take 10 mins, depending on which train you get.

otherwise your plan is fine, bearing in mind that you will have had a nice long stay in Florence.

BTW, don't miss Fiesole, while you are in Florence. a great 1/2 day excursion.

I agree---day trip to Pisa from Florence and stay in Siena for 4 nites---having a car for 3 of those days.

z - have you been at PalenQs paint stripper?

griffy, I have no idea whether you are "deeply interested" in beautiful architecture or the renaissance, but please don't be put off going to Pisa, even if you don't fall into either of the above categories. There is a lot of tat around the campo dei miracoli, but it isn't called that [the field of miracles] for nothing - the buildings transcend the surrounding rubbish and with a wander round the rest of Pisa are well worth a 3/4 day trip.

don't be put off by others silly comments.

Zeppole - I just have to ask - why in the world would it bother you if someone takes a photo "holding up" the tower in Pisa. At least they are traveling and not sitting at home and bad mouthing another country.

You have many good suggestions but they lose their importance when you make such comments.

Griffey - go to Pisa and take all the photos you want, silly or otherwise.

I would include Lucca, actually I would stay in Lucca insted of Pisa. We spent four days there and enjoyed it..Then to VOlterra, San Gimi, Siena.

I am somewhat interested in architecture,(so maybe I fall into z's first category) and also interested in photography )so maybe that puts me into the second category) but the day my sister, brother-in-law and I spent in Pisa was wonderful, even thought it was bucketing rain part of the day and drizzling the rest.

When we got off the train, it was pouring, so we took a taxi to the cathedral area. On the way we asked the driver for a good restaurant off the tourist track. He wrote out an adddress. After we had explored the cathedral, baptistry, tower and nearby museum, we took another taxi. The driver took us down a zigzag of streets and then said it was as far as he could go and pointed us down a warren of alleys and promised us a good lunch.

Found the restaurant. It was full of local people. The wait staff was friendly and helpful with our ordering. This was also the placewhere my sister set off the emergency alarm in the ladies' room. While searching for the light switch in the dark, she pulled a string which was the "Help me!" alarm that set off all sorts of sirens, flashing lights and running staff.

After lunch, which was delicious, we lost ourselves in more little streets and finally arrived at the river and the walk back to the station. It was an enchanting afternoon,maybe not everryone's cup of tea, but one we thoroughly enjoyed. If that puts us in the a--h---- category, so be it.

I am glad to have seen one of the iconic tourist sites of Italy and don't regret a minute that we spent there.

we did something similar, irishface, though not with the help of any taxis. I really liked Pisa, much to my surprise, and it's not just the Tower and tourists.

Griffy,
Go if you feel you want to. We went and were quite disappointed by the throngs of sellers surrounding the Tower. I had some idealistic expectation that we would be the ONLY ones at the tower I guess. It is lovely though and there is nothing like it in the world. There are many here who loved their stay in Pisa. Just prepare yourself mentally for it before you go and just push on through. We loved Lucca, Volterra and San Gimignano, especially in the evening and early morning before those pesky tourists arrived.

I stopped in Pisa on my way to Liguria. Was there very early in the AM, left bags at Left Luggage and walked to the Leaning Tower. I loved the stroll and it was so early in the AM that I was practically alone at the Tower. I loved it but I can imagine it becomes a mob scene later in the day.

There's a lot more to the Piazze dei Miracoli site than the tower!! I would go to Pisa in a heartbeat if only to see the huge frescoes in the Campo Santo that show the coming of the plague and the battle of the demons and the angels over the souls of the dead. It's only a short train ride from Florence so you could easily do it as a day trip. Enjoy every moment of it!

I like HappyTrvlr's advice. I would also stay at Lucca, in a nice agriturismo, and use it as base to drive to the wonderful towns in Tuscany.
I liked other towns better than Pisa: Siena, Lucca, San Gimignano... however, it depends on your interests.

a good way to see the tower and the other buildings on the "campo dei miracoli" [ie field of miracles] is to stay overnight, when all the hawkers and vast majority of other tourists will have gone home. the buildings are all lit up, and it's very pretty.

if that appeals, an overnight stay is a good idea.

zepp, you are too intelligent to be a such a name caller. Just want to let you know that I'm going to complain about the above comment so you'll know who it is.

Griffy, my late husband and I thoroughly enjoyed Pisa. We stayed there for 2 nights and then again for 5 as a very agreeable base for train and bus travel.

If you can get a tour of the Duomo, you find out scads of wonderful things about the power that was Pisa and the artistry in the church. We needed to make an appointment to climb the tower and enjoyed it as well. The views and considering how Galileo made it to the top with 2 canonballs!

We stayed at the Royal Victoria Hotel and I've recommended often. Shabby? Yes. Old world charm and wonderful staff? By the bucketsfull!

Enjoy.

We don't really like Pisa but I think that is because we drove in circles and we tend to get a little irritated when DH is driving and I'm navigating. I would take the train from Florence for the day.

I personally think that Siena is a far better Tuscan base, but a car can be a problem if you are staying "in" Siena. There are wonderful agriturismo's around Siena and then you can be there for your whole 5 days in Tuscany stay. You will then have access to Siena and all of the small wonderful towns. Montelcino is only and hour south of Siena and of course there are amazing restaurants and wineries in the area. Volterra is only an hour away.... just head out a different direction each day.

We stayed at the Royal Victoria Hotel and I've recommended often. Shabby? Yes. Old world charm and wonderful staff? By the bucketsfull!>>

TDudette - DH and i stayed there when we did a driving tour of northern Italy an eon or so ago, and loved it - the bathroom was bigger than our bedroom at home, and the room itself was HUGE. we stayed there again a few years ago on the last night of a trip we did with our kids and it was dire - tiny rooms [the originals looked as if they had been divided in 3] tinier bathrooms, and no charm at all.

Never go back!

Sorry to hear that, annhig. The original family was operating it when we were there--hope that hasn't changed with the bad world-conomy. Anyone else have recent reveiws?

We stayed at the Villa La Principessa just outside Lucca, ( GREAT food, lovely old world accommodations, beautiful garden/grounds ) then drove to Pisa.

I think seeing the Tower in person rather than in a history book and viewing the gorgeous vistas from the top, make it worth a visit. Try to get there soon after it opens,especially if you go in the summer months, since parking and lines can be nightmarish.

That being said, I'm not sure which category I fall into. We definitely took pictures "holding up" the Tower, but I also got a kick out of zeppole's comments.

We will really only have one day to day trip out of florence b/c the tuesday will be a write off from travelling, wed we will tour around florence, thursday we are day tripping out to castello di verazzano (sp?) for a full day wine tour and then i will be busy with 'bridesmaid' duties the friday and saturday. Departing on sunday.
I dont really think I fall into either of those two categories, however I think I would regret not making the day trip to see pisa and lucca.
Thank you for all your comments and advice!

Please report back and have an excellent time!

Pisa has other attractions besides the Tower of Pisa (which is in an area that is obnoxiously mobbed with tourists). On the other hand, to Americans, the Tower is an icon and the kind of thing you would probably regret missing on a trip nearby. Seems worth at least a day trip (easy from Florence).

My husband and I recently spent six days in Florence visiting our son who was studying there. We had both visited Italy dozens of times previously, but neither of us had been to the Tower.

We ended up doing the Lucca/Pisa day trip - rented a car, left Florence at about 12:30 pm (when our son and his friend woke up), stopped in Lucca for lunch, shopping and a cool bike ride along the city walls. Lovely town - Would happily return and rent a house near there.

Then spent an hour or so in Pisa, photogenic just before sunset and not too crowded. We returned to Florence in time for dinner. A terrific day trip...Lucca was a delight and Pisa was no more touristy than Florence. BTW, the tower is not just an icon to Americans. The other tourists at that hour were exclusively Europeans and Asians.

Here's one Tower who rather enjoyed seeing the Tower many decades ago(before it's tilt was repaired).

Pay heed to Zeppo and never again visit anyplace that has more than one tourist present...and enjoy your vacations in your backyard. By the way, the Marx Brothers were named Groucho , Chico, Harpo and a straight man named Zeppo. Guess which of the names better fits this thread's "removee"

No disrespect meant at all, tower. You always give excellent advice, which has been most helpful for many of my trips. But Zeppole is a woman, and I am getting really tired of the Fodor's editors removing anything that has a bit of flavor or humor to it. So many of my favorite contributors have left or been banned. Is that really what we want here?

Weadles, I can't find any humor is categorizing people as AH'es if they are tourists. zepp's and others' more esoteric information is wonderful but not at the expense of the rest of us who do want to visit the popular places.

I've asked her nicely to rephrase and she hasn't. As I mentioned above, I'm the one who complained.

My apologies, TDudette. I suppose she did go too far, and as described, I probably fall into her 'AH'es as tourists' categories. But I still think she offers lots of good, solid, "off-the-beaten-track" information, and it would be a shame if she disappeared totally from the dialogue.

now of course, my "paintstripper"quip is meaningless.

tower - i liked the unrepaired tower too. BTW, the 4th Marx bro, Zeppo, was a real Marx brother who became an engineer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppo_Marx

Weadles...I'm sure you'll agree for the most part that it's usually not WHAT Z says..but how she says it, i.e. her choice of words). Self-deprecation is an art, spiteful humor at the expense of someone not deserving it is something entirely different and quite unacceptable.

Keep on truckin' and travel 'til you unravel. That's the best any of us can do and hope for.
stu

Hey, wait a minute.

This is the first I've looked back at this thread and I see that my comment was removed.

It wasn't an attack on tourists who go to Pisa. I go to Pisa all the time to study the tower. It is one of my favorite religious structures in Italy.

My salty characterization of people who act like ------------- (supply your own flavorful word) was justified by their behavior.

There was nothing "spiteful" about my remark. It was probably removed for near obscenity. I'm surprised people have never noticed much of the behavior tourists engage in that ruins trips for other tourists. I don't agree (obviously) that it shouldn't be condemned for what it is. I also don't agree that people here who repeatedly offer really terrible and out of date advice should be indulged.

There are still travelers who don't fly on frequent flyer miles and points, who have to save from their salaries to travel, and who have a serious thoughtful purpose in coming so far from home to see great works of art.

Who are these other people to get in their way or, when they ask questions, give them instructions that is likely to end up costing them money and cheating them out of what they could have if they were given good advice?

I wish some of you who think you are so virtuous (?) would get on the case of people who are actually diminishing travel for other people. All you care about, it seems, is seeing my screen name and flailing at me.

Not that I care, but don't you care at all about these poor innocents who come to Fodor's asking quetions and never get anything but formula answers from __________s? (Use your imagination, those who have one.)

mbloggs is right in that there is more to the Piazza dei Miracoli than just the tower. If you ever have taken an Art History survey course, the last entry in Gothic art is generally the pulpit by Nicola Pisano in the Baptistry. It is considered one of the works that heralds the changes that will take place in Renaissance art. The pulpit by his son in the Duomo is equally notable. If you are interested in art, the Duomo group represent a high point.

So many people go to Pisa just to see the tower and come away with a bad impression. I was in that group on my first trip to Italy (my excuse for not seeing everything - it was hot and my kids were ready to move on).

If you just want to see the tower, though, enjoy--I do understand the need. It is so iconic.

tower,

I want to add that if you are reading my posts as attacks on tourists, you are misreading them. What I have been attacking is the sentimentality of tourism, the attitude of reveling in the destruction of places because it makes for a better tourist memory.

The tourism that says "I like my gladiator snapshot, so what's the beef?"

The tourism that can't see the tragedy that one of Europe's unarguably greatest artworks -- the Campo dei Miracoli -- suffering a cruel geological tragedy that caused an architectural wonder to sink on one side. There isn't an artist who ever breathed whose heart doesn't break to see that leaning, who can't imagine the horror of the artist who poured his art and soul into creating that work to last for all time. The artist created a miracle. The tourist sees a sentimental opportunity. A chance to memorialize his or her own ego by making the tower and its lean the point -- or worse, the joke.

At Pisa, the revelers is the worst kind of tourism are so plentiful, how can any person of sensitivity rather than sentimentality not see the obscenity and not want to use words fit to describe it?

<<<< There isn't an artist who ever breathed whose heart doesn't break to see that leaning, who can't imagine the horror of the artist who poured his art and soul into creating that work to last for all time. >>>>

Well, I spare a thought for the architect who realised, in time, that accepting the lowest bid for the construction of the Pisa tower foundations was not the best decision. Doubtless the tender evaluation docs would make interesting reading.

Ditto for the authorities in Venice, accepting the lowest bid for the supply of cement for the Campanile in the Piazza.

Ditto for the authorities in Rome who allowed the Coliseum to be treated as a quarry for a thousand years.

And it’s not known as “The Leaning Tower of Pisa” for nothing.

Looks like Griffy has decided to leave us to our bickering.

zeppole, please read my comments. This is a site for tourists. "AH" is not appropriate. Period. If you feel attacked, you are incorrect. It is your choice of words. I take full responsibility for objecting to them.

Zep, it's YOU who are constantly the uppity, know-it-all AH on all the threads here. Most of the nicest people on Fodors have seen you for what you are - an obsessed, assholic, better-than-you utter jerkaholic. We don't care at this point that you live in Italy and know better than we do because of it, because your totally know-it-all attitude and put-down practices and pernicious attitude and incendiary attitude make whatever information you might have secondary...actually irrelevant... to whatever information you might provide. You're a nutcase. Passive-aggressive, utterly humorless, with a dagger-like damnation for anyone wanting to do anything you deem even slightly "touristy." If you had your head on straight you'd realize a lot of people here want to tread the paths of many tourists behind them. They might actually get a lot out of that. You don't necessarily "find your inner Tuscan" by roaming around spa towns in lower Tuscany. Maybe you follow the trodden path and enjoy it because you're new to it. And will thrive on it! Your supposedly "superior" approach is not going to work for the vast majority of travelers, and berating travelers before they even take off on vacation is, well, kind of dumb and won't win you any awards.

Let's also add that the passive/aggressive issue is a problem. You always say that readers shouldn't listen to anything we say, but they should listen to YOU. Why would that be? Because YOU are so informed and we're not. Yuh. Go for it. You think rational people go on the internet and encounter a nutcase like you and think they can believe what's true? Hardly.

If you had any sense at all, which you obviously don't (actually, I think you think you're clever...think again, you're just nasty), instead of placing yourself as an adversary to normal, friendly, outward-seeking, Fodors-helping folks who have been to Italy and who clearly are wanting to help out others to do so, you'd back off on the insults and slams against well-meaning folks who want to help others have good trips to Italy or wherever (your recent posts on Paris are hilarious...as if you were some sort of expert there...NOT!)

There. And why aren't all Zepp's completely obnoxious posts deleted - oh, let me guess who hit the triangle.

And btw, zep, you have no freaking idea whom you have encountered in tower, and I'll leave it at that.

Can't you just zap this bitch? Loads of other websites have. Since you're busy zapping completely innocuous posts in The Lounge, why can't you just get rid of this obnoxious, lethal harridan?

Wow! Can I hit " like" . You go StCirq

Thanks, rfbk0 - happy Monday

StCirq:

Hmmmm...("lethal harridan"...gotta remember that one). Looks like you'll never be invited for dinner with Zep and family. Don't fret...she probably fills her Murano-glass fruit bowl with hand-grenades.
stu

I suppose that I’m possibly a typical tourist.

Visited the Pisa tower because it has a list to starboard, skipped the Last Supper, was amused at the saintly relics in a numerous churches, not that well informed about art (Peggy’s place in Venice did not do it for me), would have taken a gondola ride but for the cost, go searching for the odd and bizarre rather than the significant. Visited Italy the first time without barely reading a guide book or entering a gallery, was generally ill, or un-informed. Thought that the most important thing to see in the Vatican was the Sistine ceiling. Checked out Juliet’s balcony in Verona, looked for the Montague and Capulet villas (not found).

Tourists like me have existed forever. I can imaging that 11th Century pilgrims in Venice lazed around, ignored the significant sites and sights, made nuisances of themselves, got ripped off by hoteliers and tour organisers. Bitched about the lack of overhead space on ships, asked questions like “What’s to do in Venice, our next destination is the Holy Land”. And local residents would have poured scorn on them, someone would have said “Don’t miss the Temple of the Rock in Jerusalem”, while others said “Golgotha, schmolgotha, it’s just a boneyard – give it a miss”, others said “I would not go to Jerusalem if you paid me, but Jerez in Portugal is a good trip. Anyone advising Jerusalem clearly does not go there very often”.

It has always been such – so it’s not much point complaining now. However, even pilgrims would have appreciated friendly, well-meant advice - nor sarcasm.They may even have offered a prayer to St Zephyrinus (Pope, AD199 - 217)in the hope of getting such advice.

Stu, the bowl is filled with whatever the harridan feels is necessary to fuel her next volley. It doesn't matter. She's off the charts. She's nuts. You know it, I know it, all sensible people know it. Nuts. I'm halfway through your book..fabulous!

I forgot to add my Fodors mission statement, for which I acknowledge Paolo Sarpi, wise Venetian.

“Lies I never tell, but the truth not to everyone.”

I would say "Yes" to Pisa if you haven't been there before. Do I go each time I'm in the region? No, of course not (even though if someone wanted to each time that's ok too). I've only been to the tower once, at dusk. It was closed and I wasn't able to climb up, but it was beautiful against the setting sun and it brought on that special feeling I get when I'm standing in the presence of something significant from the past. (I also happen to be a science geek.) I think if I've never seen it in person, I would put it on my to do list of Tuscany.

Having said that, I agree with those that recommended staying overnight in Lucca instead. It really is a beautiful, charming, walled city and I especially enjoyed the evening view as I was walking around the city on top of the walls.

Someone has been partaking in the Sherbet dip again.

This is a social network, for those who aren't comfortable in a social environment, I suggest buggering off to their own blog where they can wallow in their self importanice.

My angel hat remains intact as StCirq has found some adjectives I didn't have the nerve to use.

BTW

Back to the subject.

Most sane travellers would agree that Pisa is a day trip. Most sane travellers with a sense of humour will probably take a photograph showing their friend or dearly beloved pushing the tower back up.

I clearly missed something - what is the issue with taking your picture holding up the tower?

It's a funny pic - I like to have pics with a sense of humour as well as artistic ones!

What would I use for my profile pic on facebook if I didnt take funny pics when travelling???

Jamikins

You've missed a huge storm in a small teacup.

Or is it a small storm in....

Just all part of the friendly community we have here.

OMG

I have just seen your profile piccie?

Your insane!

Or sane....as the case maybe.

hahahaha - I know, I just cant stop myself from posting crazy/insane shots of myself on social media networks!

Fodors is quite tame, not even my face! You should see my facebook profile, I think it is currently me posing on a cliff in cinque terre! CRAZY I tell you

Wish I had a big cup.

Well said St Cirq !
Do you suppose she may go away now?

I need some ideas on what we see in Pisa before flying to Barcelona.

We travel by train from Monterosso to Pisa.
We fly to Barcelona at 6:30pm.

How far is the train station from Pisa tower?

How long do we need to stroll around the Pisa tower before going to the airport?

Would you recommend something else to take my kids to?
I'm traveling with a 23, 15, 11 y/o kids.

Thanks,
Mia

No Bob, on past experience it is going to get a whole lot worse.

oh dear, didnt mean to cause a big war. Sorry.
I am going to try to get two extra nights at the Ravizza in siena and then we could just rent a car in siena and do a day trip to pisa and lucca from there!

Griffy, I promise, its not you.

I'm starting to wonder if we need some kind of intervention. You know, where a bunch of loving family members get together and confront a person about problem, in the most constructive way possible. Hate the sin but not the sinner, and all that .... The lounge might be a good place.

We have been in the trenches for years and in the words of the great General Allenby, this is a side show of a side show. Not your fault at all Griffy.

I don't feel that Lucca is a day trip, it is a lovely, lovely place. In fact one of my favourite in Italy but there is no wow factor site/sight. To me it is a place to relax and just sink into, it has a great pace. It does combine well with Pisa though.

Thanks for ignoring my post.
I guess bitching about Zeppolle is what Fodor's is intended for.

I am going to try to get two extra nights at the Ravizza in siena and then we could just rent a car in siena and do a day trip to pisa and lucca from there!>>

to get back to the point, [but thanks, St. Cirq for the big smile you put on my face] siena is not the best place from which to do a day trip to Pisa or Lucca. According to viamichelin.it it's about 1 hour 50 mins drive to Lucca, and another 20 mins onto Pisa. [and their time estimates tend to be on the ungenerous side].

I'm not saying not to do it, but it could be a long day. definitely try to fit it into your Florence itinerary if you can.

PS - griffy - YOU didn't start the war. it's been rumbling for a looooong time, with many scurmishes and the odd bit of open warfare. but we love each other really. [well, most of us do].

Pooky - you will get more responses if you start your own thread...tagging onto other huge threads sometimes makes it easy to miss one (especially when there is controversy on the thread). It's nothing personal! And no need to be sarcastic, you will also get more helpful responses by playing nice

pookymimi, I can't help with your airport times-someone else? We spent the night both times we were in Pisa. We took a taxi from airport to our hotel (about a 20-minute walk from the Tower) and I think it was less than an hour. Our hotel was about a 10 minute walk from the train station. So it would be about a 30-minute walk from train to tower. Probably no fun with bags.

Again, we were staying in Pisa so just walked up one morning and the earliest reservation we could get to climb was at 3 that day. We spent almost an hour in the church following an amazing tour--it's breath-taking. Again, has anyone ever made on-line Tower reservations?

Can pookymimi store luggage at the train station? If so, you could do that, stroll to Tower area, tour, eat and taxi back to pick up bags and go to airport by taxi or by train (?). You'd need to get to Pisa quite early in the morning to do this I'm thinking. Monterosso is about 2 hours away by train.

Maybe start another thread about this, pookymimi. It looks like a tight visit with all you are trying to do and I'm not fluent about train/airport info in Pisa. The IS a station closer to the Tower but I don't know if you could store your luggage there.

TDudette, thanks! I also went to tripadvisor to get an idea. I will check on a map also.

jamikins on Apr 17, 12 at 2:12pm

Pooky - you will get more responses if you start your own thread...you will also get more helpful responses by playing nice

Jaminikis, I'm always nice, but when you see several threads about Italy transformed from a OP question and answers to a completely bitching about Zeppolle it gets old.

I would take a look from an outsider side and see who seems not to be nice. I'm just stating the truth and how you look to people who have nothing to do in the matter. I don't know you at all, but Zeppolle always have constructive things to say about Italy.

Stick around for while pooky and you will understand others perspective as well. It goes both ways. I am not condoning anyones behavior but the longer you are here you will see how people interact.

We are all here to help and give free advice and are not obligated to respond to every post. I read it but can't help because I have no experience with what you are asking. I was trying to help you get the info you require. I guess that's not the help you were looking for?

I certainly provide more info to people who are polite...and will continue to do so. Good luck with your trip, I hope you get the info you require.

oh wow i didnt realize it was that far. Thats a good point. back to the drawing board!

griffy - From Florence, and using the train, you could certainly do Pisa in an afternoon/early evening trip, or a nice full day would be to get the train to Lucca, spend the morning there, buy a picnic lunch to eat on the train, get the train back to Pisa, and spend the afternoon/early evening there, then "home" to Florence for a late supper.

you can book your "slot" for climbing the tower at www.opapisa.it

if you haven't already, I suggest getting hold of the Michelin green guide to Italy - [especially if you can find the old version, that just gave the sights, not hotels or restaurants] - it gives you succinct descriptions of the main sights in every town, the best routes to take and how long it's going to take you.

have a great trip!

awesome thats for the suggestion I will order that right up!

thanks*

>>>I would take a look from an outsider side and see who seems not to be nice.<<<

Keep in mind that one person has many posts deleted and multiple screen names that have been banned.

pooky - You will have to store your luggage unless you can check it with the airline early. There are only two places to store luggage, Pisa Centrale train station and the luggage facility at the airport. The closest station to the tower is Pisa S. Rossore, but it's just as easy to catch the buses outside Pisa Centrale. Pisa Centrale is only a five minute train ride to the airport, but sometimes luggage rooms can have lines so allow a bit extra to pick up your luggage.

Griffy - I agree with annhig about the day trip from Florence except the eating on the train part. I would have lunch in Lucca before catching the train or wait until Pisa. These are old R trains on this route and they don't have tables like the high speed trains. They just aren't very nice and often no AC. You reach Pisa S. Rossore before Centrale when coming from Lucca so I would get off there. After your finished climbing the tower, take the bus to Centrale and train back to Florence.

kybourbon on Apr 17, 12 at 8:10pm

Thanks a lot for the advice for the luggage, I will check into that once there.

>>>I would take a look from an outsider side and see who seems not to be nice.<<<

<Keep in mind that one person has many posts deleted and multiple screen names that have been banned.>

I understand that lots of people here don't like Zeppolle, I've gotten the idea from several threads like this one where after one of her postings everybody goes at her and post after post is about her, losing the intention of the original posting.

I believe had I not brought this up to all of you this would've kept going.

I don't care if jamikins finds me unpolite or not nice because I'm the only one who had the nerve of posting what lots of us think when we don't have a thing to do with the issue, due to not knowing everybody in the forum.

You can keep your advice, don't care, I found you rude as I didn't say anything but the truth.

I've not call anybody a "bitch" and other adjectives and still I was asked to be polite to get advice, what a nerve.
I only said that you've lost the direction of the original post. Tripadvisor sometimes is less hostile than this forum.

moving swiftly on, griffy - my old michelin green guide shows that the main sights in Lucca should take you a couple of hours with another hour for walking around the old town. [there is a plan showing you the route]. as for Pisa, it suggests allowing 2 hours for seeing the piazza del duomo [aka il campo dei miracoli] but you would ideally co-ordinate that with your booking for climbing the tower, for which you need to arrive about 10-15 mins in advance to collect your tickets, put any bags in the lockers [all with their own locks] provided, etc.

I take kyb's point about the picnic on the train. have a nice lunch in Lucca then get the train to Pisa, and spend the rest of the day there.

hope you have a wonderful time.

If I was doing this, I would get an early train to Pisa to see the sights, then a train to Lucca to eat lunch at the wonderful La Buca di San Antonio, then spend a relaxed afternoon walking around Lucca, one of my favourite towns. No museums or must sees, just a lovely place to be, and after lunch you would be very relaxed indeed.

And without Zeppole, I fear blandness would prevail on this board, it's getting like that already. And she bl--dy knows Italy.

I'll go with tarquin's order to end in Lucca. Can one get an online appt. to climbe the Tower????

No argument about zepp's knowledge, tarquin, it's that she rejects people's desires to see the major touristy places and does it in an rather insulting way. Amen.

Hi Griffy! I'll add my 2 cents........as you'll be staying in cities (Siena and Florence) for the rest of your trip, I think you should base yourselves in the countryside during the nights of 8 and 9 July - maybe somewhere near Montalcino or Pienza? There are loads of nice agriturismi in Val d'Orcia. The area is unspoiled. REally beautiful.

Enjoy your trip!

Michael