Flying with Air France and Alitalia

Old Feb 12th, 2016, 08:43 AM
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Flying with Air France and Alitalia

Hi there,

In March I'm flying from Toronto to Milan, with a 1.5 hour layover in Paris. It's Alitalia, operated by Air France. On the back a week later, I'm flying nonstop from Rome to Toronto with Alitalia.

1)on the way there, is a 1.5 hour layover enough time, assuming my initial flight is not delayed? I've never dealt with a layover before and I'm travelling alone, so I'm starting to get really nervous about this.
2)I'm paranoid to check my baggage in case it doesn't make the layover. I'll have gifts in the bag which I don't want to get lost or delayed. They are bamboo embroidery hoops - I can't find any evidence anywhere of those not being allowed?
3)I have a small rolling carry-on suitcase (I believe the external dimensions are 22.5" high x 15 inches" x 10"). This seems to be above Air France and Alitalia's dimension limits? I was able to bring it onbaord a flight to Edinburgh two years ago. I'm guessing I should look for something a bit smaller?
-if I find a spinner suitcase the is within their dimensions and weight, can I also bring on board either a Fjallraven backpack (the regular kind the hipsters wear) or a Herschel Little Americana backpack? Or do they want you to bring a small purse as your addition carry-on and nothing bigger?
-last question - Air France's weight limit is 12kg for both bags. Fine. Alitalia's website says 5kg - surely that must be for both bags combined??

I'm a total spazz.

-lastly - any suggestions of things I must see or do in Milan and Rome? I am NOT well travelled, clearly.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 08:54 AM
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1) Usually yes. If the transatlantic plane is delayed (happens rarely) you will be booked on the next plane.

2) Yes, there is a certain chance that your baggage won't make it. But usually, it will be delivered to your hotel or whereever you stay the following day.

So pack into your handbaggage some clothes for one or two days, medications and the gifts.

If you have a transatlantic flight and a connecting intra-European flight, the baggage regulations for the transatlantic flight are valid for all flights.

Carry-on baggage is a question. The airlines used to be very generous about the carry-on, but recently they have started to be stricter. Lufthansa never weighted hand baggage, but on my last flight, they did at the check-in counter. It exceeded the limit, but the agent was generous after I told him that a laptop was in it and handed my the "approved" tag.

But better be careful. Times are changing. If Alitalia's website says "5 kg" it must be an "Italian rule" (as my Italian friends use to call it). Like Italian speed limits. Nothing to take serious.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 09:06 AM
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>>things I must see or do in Milan and Rome
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 09:39 AM
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Thank you very much for your response. I actually called Alitalia just now to clarify the carry-on situation, and he told me that I was allowed 1 carry-on bag that must not weigh more than 8kg.
I questioned him about the 'personal item' and he told me that no, backpacks are not allowed. A 'woman's purse' is. I said even if it fits easily under the seat? And he said no, because a backpack "looks like a carry-on bag" I was a bit flabbergasted, to be honest.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 09:43 AM
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Backpack is not backpack. Smaller ones, with nice decorations would count as purses. A big, outdoor-type backpack for hiking and camping in the wilderness would count as a carry-on bag.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 09:49 AM
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Alitalia operated by Air France is just an Air France flight. Your bag size is outside the limits, depends how crowded they are probably was to whether they spy it and make you check it, probably, but if that is really important to you, you'd better get a smaller one (it's the height that is outside the limits).

no, you can't include a backpack as an accessory item on Air France, they define accessory solely as a purse, a notebook computer or a camera (officially). Now you could try to pass it off as a handbag but again, you risk having the other item then checked. That Little America one is particularly large, larger than the other, it's about the same size as the suitcase you want to carryon.

It is true a lot of people exceed these limits on every flight I've ever been on (particularly the accessory I'm thinking of), so you never know. I was forced to check my bag a couple months ago on American and it was about the same size as your suitcase, but I had prepared for that event. I gave it a try but didn't have any valuables in it, etc. They said it exceeded the 10 inch limit, which it probably did as it was stuffed very full (those bag limits on the tag are only when they are totally empty, at least the canvas ones that can stretch).

I don't see anywhere on Alitalia's website that it claims there is a 5 kg limit for carryon, I see 8 kg. Which isn't much. That does not include the accessory item.

I don't know why bamboo embroidery hoops would not be allowed on board, I'm not sure what the issue would be that you are questioning. It clearly isn't something explosive or sharp which could be a weapon.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 10:09 AM
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Regarding carry-on luggage, you are probably looking at the issue from a view point of a more regimented society than Italy. If you ask a question in Italy, you get an official answer. However, what you can actually do does not necessarily correspond to the official position. Published documents from traditional sources would dare not go outside the official stated boundaries.

It is equally incorrect to assume that you can always get away with it. It would be more effective if you prepare with an assumption that everyone might enforce the letter of the law, and you have packed accordingly. If you got away beyond the official limit, it is an upside for you. You will not get an upside unless you try but not in a demanding or an obnoxious way. The particular plane might be lightly loaded, in which case, they might not bother enforcing the official rule as vigorously as if they see the boarding gate area full of passengers trying to carry on large items.

Regarding 1) 1.5 hour layover. If you look at easycdg.com/airport-guide/which-terminal-information-paris-cdg-airport-charlesdegaulle, AF flight is likely to land at 2E and Alitalia flight is "likely" to leave from 2F. If you look at the map, easycdg.com/passenger-information/connecting-flight-connections-paris-cdg-airport/transfer-terminal-2e/terminal-2e-to-terminal-2f, you notice the terminal 2E comes in three buildings Hall K,L,M. If your flight from Tronto is AZ3598 operated by AF, that is Boeing 777, a huge plane that can take a long time to get off depending on where you are sitting.

When people says "It's ok, you will be booked on next flight." It means just that. You are only protected from the immediate cash outlay to book another flight. However, consequential damages at the destinations - missing something because you are arriving too late, is your problem. If the Toronto-CDG flight is forecasted to be late, for example the plane they need to turn around at Toronto is late, then you might be offered a totally different way to get to Milan. However, to take advantage of this, you might have to be ready to move to Toronto airport much earlier than you planned. Monitor Toronto airport site or flight stat sites such as flightaware.com many hours before your departure to see if they already know your Toronto-CDG flight might be delayed.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 11:33 AM
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I think I might just check my roller suitcase then and hope for the best. Since I'm going from Toronto to Paris on Air France but then Paris to Milan on Alitalia, but it's still the same booking, my bag would be checked through to Milan, correct?
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 11:47 AM
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Forgot to mention, Greg - what if my body is travelling as fast as it can, but there is a holdup at customs or the passport line? Then would I have to pay for the next outgoing flight if I miss my connection?
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 11:51 AM
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If it is all one ticket your bag is checked through.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 12:53 PM
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Your bag is checked through.

>>what if my body is travelling as fast as it can, but there is a holdup at customs or the passport line? Then would I have to pay for the next outgoing flight if I miss my connection?
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 12:56 PM
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Is your CDG-Milan flight AZ305 which goes to Linate? If that is the case, your luggage tag placed at Toronto will say, from top to bottom, "LIN, CDG". For a short layover like this, the Toronto agent would automatically assume you would want luggage checked to LIN.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 01:57 PM
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Hi vacatia,

I live in Italy and have friends visit all the time. Most of them connect through European airports to fly to Milan, including flying through CDG. At least half of them lose their chekced luggage. It is a nuisance to get customer support either through Air France or Alitalia. My recommendation: Don't check luggage unless it is an absolute necessity -- especially if you are not staying in Milan.

I stopped flying Air France some years ago due to bad experiences and not liking their seat arrangements, but on a recent trip flying transatlantic back to Italy on British Airways, the plane landed on time on time in London, and then got stuck on the tarmac waiting for a parking space to open up. Then there was a long to pass through security again -- and I missed my connection. Since I was booked through on one ticket, BA put me on the next available flight.

You just don't have control over the situation.
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 07:46 PM
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Thanks everyone for replying, you did calm me down a bit!

Greg - yes, that's the flight.

sandralist - that's disappointing to hear. How is it possible so many of their bags have been lost?? Did they get them back?

It seems unlikely that people are able to NOT check luggage, given that on Alitalia you can really only carry on one carry-on bag, and a small purse. Who can fit two weeks worth in that? I'm impressed with those who can. Air France seems a bit more lenient with your personal item, but my flight is Air France and Alitalia combined, so I basically have to abide by Alitalia.

Does it not slow you down to have more than carry-on bag during a connection? Do your bags get checked through security again during these connections?
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 11:31 PM
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In two cases, the bags never left North America. One was not put on the plane in LA. The other not put on in Toronto. Other people had their bags lost in Frankfurt, Paris and London. Every time bags were mishandled is was in a peak travel season when airports are busy. People did get their luggage back, and fortunuately all were able to return to Malpensa to pick them up rather than rely on having them delivered to another city.

People using a carryon-sized bags with spinner wheels and carrying a computer case usually don't have trouble moving quickly through the airport. Most people who pack for a 2-week trip never wear or use everything in their bag.

I would call back Alitalia and tell them what you are carrying on to your Air France flight. Then ask them if that will be OK for carry on or if you will need to check one of the bags at the gangway. Their answer might be different from the first time you called. (If you need to check a bag at the gangway, it's no big deal.)
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Old Feb 12th, 2016, 11:36 PM
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It case it wasn't clear, I was suggesting you call Alitalia and tell them you are not checking a bag on your Air France flight, so when you arrive in Paris you will have (describe the dimensions) when you show up at the Alitalia gate for your connecting Alitalia flight to Milan. Ask them if Alitalia is going to ask you to check one of the bags at the desk/gangway before you board the Alitalia flight and take your seat. See what they say.
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Old Feb 13th, 2016, 02:15 AM
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Anecdotical experience is one thing, hard facts is another.

The global Baggage Report 2015 shows that in 2014, 7.3 bags per 1,000 passengers have been mishandled. From these 7.3 bags per 1,000 passengers, only 5.5 per cent were lost, this makes 0.4 bags per 1,000 passengers.

Since 2007, the mishandling rate had decreased by 61%, so older experiences are no longer valid.

http://www.futuretravelexperience.co...e-investments/

But if you want another anecdote, here is one from me and Milan: We once flew with our 3-generation-family into Milan and one from six bags did not arrive, due to a shortened transfer time in Munich. The lost bag was delivered to our hotel near Torino (~ 150km from Milan) the following day. This is the most likely outcoming in the unlikely event of delayed baggage. Be just prepared for that by packing some things to survive the first days in your carryon.

And enjoy your trip to Italy!
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Old Feb 13th, 2016, 02:27 AM
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In most cases, mishandled (not to mention pilfered) baggage is the fault of baggage handlers employed by the airport, not the airline employees who load and offload the bags on the plane. Obviously the airlines have no control over this since there is just one service company that all airlines must use. And also obviously, the airlines get blamed for all such problems.

The difference that counts is how well the airlines handle the problem once it occurs.
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Old Feb 13th, 2016, 08:08 AM
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sandralist - I was just going to abide by the Alitalia rules, or at least try to. That way I was hoping there would be no issue with my carry-on from the Air France flight to the Alitalia flight. It's strange to me that they have the same dimensional allowance, but not the same weight allowance. It's the same 'ticket', too.

I think I'm just going to try my darndest to pack as LITTLE as possible. It is only a week, after all!
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