Two days in Berlin will not exactly give you much time to explore the history of this ( very) big and interesting city. Potsdam would take a day to visit.
You can see Dachau in an afternoon.
The itinerary has you moving every few days..
.. time to get to and from train stations, checking in and out of hotels, packing and unpacking etc...often takes longer than one anticipates.

Yes, we are moving around a lot but that doesn't bother us. With only 2 weeks it's been very difficult to choose what to see. Thanks for your thoughts.

>>>"time to get to and from train stations, checking in and out of hotels, packing and unpacking etc...often takes longer than one anticipates."

Do you really think that "other" people are so thick that they have no comprehension of time? Even when they post that they prefer a fast paced trip? When they post the train travel times between their destinations, showing they have done research? When they had to pack to get on the plane for the trip over?

It's nice to see that Pat does seem to have an understanding of time, space, and her own likes and dislikes.

Pat;

Potsdam does take the better part of a day to see, even though it is less than an hour from central Berlin. I would agree that it might not be the best way to spend your arrival day. Berlin can keep you busy for the full time.

With 4 nights in Munich, I think you could easily get away to Salzburg for a day trip. I always recommend it - it is a magical small city and only 1:10 away.

You can save one "move" and remove one of the two 1 night stays on your itinerary if you continue on to Fussen from Garmisch. Fussen is only 1 hour away (2 hours in total from Munich) so it is not a long driving day, in total.

When are you picking up the car? Will you have it leaving Munich and return it in Frankfurt? 3 nights in Rothenburg is ideal if you have a car as there are a number of great places in the area to visit on short trips, including Wurzburg. You could consider staying that third night on R od T instead of Wurzburg and driving to FRA from R od T (I have done it - it is about 1:45), but that would depend on the departure time of your flight and your personal comfort level. You could visit Wurzburg the day before you leave and drive on to FRA late in the afternoon and stay at an airport hotel. That still saves one move and a another 1 night hotel stay and will eliminate any concern about making the departing flight the last day.

Thanks Aramis, your comments are very helpful. It did occur to me this morning that it might be reasonable to stay 2 nights in Fussen and just make Garmisch a stop on the way. We enjoy mountain scenery so we really want to do Zugspitze.

So you think that we could fit in both Salzburg and Dachau? I hate to drop either but Dachau is a higher priority for me.

We plan to pick up the car when we leave Munich and return in Frankfurt. We expect to have a morning flight out of Frankfurt (nothing booked yet) so we'll probably stay at an airport hotel the last night.

Thanks, again!

" Do you really think that "other" people are so thick that they have no comprehension of time? Even when they post that they prefer a fast paced trip? When they post the train travel times between their destinations, showing they have done research? When they had to pack to get on the plane for the trip over?"


could you EVER answer to the OP instead of picking on other posters?
Just my POLITE suggestions ,as they asked for in the original post.
Learn some manners. please.

I would skip either Dresden or Nuernberg, to have a bit more time in either city. I personally prefer Dresden. The surrounding area is quite different from Nuernberg/Bavaria. A trip to the Koenigstein Castle would add another dimension. It is a real castle, with quite a history, comopared to the faux castle Neuschwanstein which was built after the White House in D.C.

Pat-

I know you will have a wonderful time. The only suggestion I will make is to have a room reserved every time you plan a stop so you don't waste time searching for one. And use the internet to figure out where your hotel is (before you book)and the best way to get there. When we were much younger we took several trips like this with few reservations, and had to ad lib several times. Once we even met a couple in Munich who had slept in their car in Paris several nights before because they couldn't find their hotel late at night. And I know that good inexpensive rooms will be difficult to find in some of your cities, even this far in advance. I just booked Munich. Rothenburg, and Garmisch in this same time frame and it wasn't pretty.

Also, get your train tickets as early as possible (90 days in advance) to get the best prices. You are on the cusp of getting a better deal with German rail twin passes.

Take care and don't imbibe too much when driving before you reach your final destination in the evenings...

Travelforbeer

danon; First, some facts.

My post has a VERY fulsome answer.

I asked questions intended to cause reflection. I don't consider it polite to suggest to another adult that they don't know about how long it takes to move from one hotel to another and that they should probably reform their itinerary on that basis.

You also failed to read my entire post, leading to an incorrect conclusion that probably qualifies as an insult, including "shouting" in your written reply.

Thank you for the advice on manners.

Pat;

Dachau is really just another "place" to visit in Munich. It is only 21 minutes by S-Bahn from the main railway station - a very close suburb, as it were. I think most people find they are able to visit in about a half day, depending on your personal interest in the exhibits, etc..

You have the better part of 4 days in Munich day tripping to Salzburg could take up a complete day or leave you with a late afternoon/evening back in Munich depending on your interest. If Dachau is a half day trip, that would still leave you with more than 2 full "days" in Munich. It could look something like this;

Day 1 - arrive Munich mid-morning from Munich. Spend the rest of the day in Munich
Day 2 - spend the entire day in Munich
Day 3 - day trip to Salzburg - arrive by 10;30 a.m., return to Munich by 6:00 p.m.. Evening in Munich
Day 4 - morning in Munich/Dachau, afternoon in Dachau/Munich

Pat, last May we stayed on Lake Weissensee near Fussen and did the Zugspitzbahn approaching from the Austrian side. We also spent another day at Neuschwanstein and Hohanschwangau. We enjoyed our room overlooking the small lake and felt Fussen did not live up to expectations. Have a great trip, Deborah

Pat, sounds like a wonderful trip.

Regarding Travelforbeer's post, his comments at the end about imbibing moderately might have been added for humor, but would take it very seriously. I have relatives in Bavaria and whenever I have been with them and we attended any kind of gathering, be it at a restaurant, someone's home for dinner, whenever wine or beer was served, we would automatically send for a taxi to get home. Any driver stopped on the road and determined to have had a drink (even just 1), automatically loses the driver's license for 1 year at the minimum.

Have a wonderful time. Can't wait to go back to Germany for another visit.

I would definatly go to Dachau, it is well worth the time and effort.

More helpful suggestions, thanks!

Aramis, I didn't realize that Dachau was that close. I'll be returning to my guidebooks to assess what we want to do in Munich but it does sound like we can include Dachau and Salzburg.

Treplow, I'll check out Koenigstein Castle.

Travelforbeer, it sounds like room booking is my next task!

DeborahAnn, I'll look into staying on Lake Weissensee.

MsTravelpage, thanks for the warning about imbibing. We'll be careful!

Aramis,

The first time travelers to a city , regardless of how smart and well prepared , are sometimes not aware
of its size, traffic, public transit, parking problems etc.
The OP ,obviously ,did not even realize how close Dachau is to Munich.

Assuming that one day in Berlin or Munich would not allow time to explore much of history and art in those cities - rich in both - and that moving from place to place
does reduce time available for those activities , is not
unreasonable or offensive comment.

Scolding other posters for their suggestions seems to be your approach to the board.

"Aramis on Feb 19, 13 at 11:19pm
No comments from me on an inappropriate amount of time to visit other people's favourite places No place "needs" any more time than you want to give it."

If posters had no interest in input from others, why would they ask for it?
And why is it o.k. for YOU to suggest changes in itinerary
when " no place needs more time than you want to give it".?

What is a polite approach to communication seems to be in the eye of the beholder.

I answer the questions asked by the OP's and I don't scold them for not taking what someone else thinks is a proper
amount of time to visit any particular place.

And suggesting that someone hasn't properly considered the implications of packing and getting to a train station or driving out of a city is simply a way to deliver an oblique criticism (a scolding, if you will) of their traveling choices.

I'm not sure why you included that quote of mine from Feb 19th. It is entirely consistent with my opinion on the issue. If you are paying attention to my input to the OP, I have pointed out some facts to help her decide if she can fit in all the places she wants to see and that driving on for one hour, on two different days that had a one night stop planned might save a couple of one night stays. If she wants to stay one night in each of those places, that's great, too.

No route changes, no advising her she is giving short shrift to big interesting Berlin, no pointing out she is moving every few days (she did prepare the itinerary, I think she knows) and no suggestion she doesn't have the ability to budget her time in packing and checking in and out of hotels.

There is a difference between us - really.

Oh, and you shouted again.

Hi Pat, We are going to Germany in the fall, too! Just a little bit after you, I think.
I didn't notice in your itinerary, but a poster mentioned that you are renting a car in one city and returning it to another? Have you found that to be very expensive? I sure have! Would you mind telling me who you've gone through on that? I don't mean to piggyback on your research but I have a couple of days where a car would be really helpful, rather than the time-consuming trains to small towns. But I've found the cost is almost prohibitive. Plus, we'll be 5 adults with luggage and yikes, it seems like we'll need a pretty big vehicle.
Thanks! Your trip sounds fantastic.
Sandy

Sandy,
I'm just working on the car rental now. Since there are only 2 of us and we travel pretty light, I'm going with a compact car. We'll be picking up in Munich and returning in Frankfurt, so we'll have the car about 5 days. I got an estimate from gemut.com which is recommended on this board and others. The price will be $197.47 for a compact with automatic. Pretty good I thought.

We've changed our itinerary slightly, dropping Dresden and adding another night to Berlin, and cutting Rothenburg to one night and staying one night in Wurzburg. It's all coming together!

You don't need to overnight in Fussen. You can stay at Hohenschwangau, in the valley below Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau Castles. We stayed at Hotel Mueller, ate dinner in the hotel restaurant with a view of Neuschwanstein, and got an early start on our visit to Neuschwanstein.

Driving north we stopped at Wieskirkche, not far from Hohenshwangau. This is an elaborately rococco (redundant I know) church built among fields and pastures. The contrast between the surroundings and the church's ornate interior is striking.

Under $40 a day for an automatic - great deal. make sure you keep the rental papers handy - they will think you stole it.

Hohenschwangau to Rothenburg is about 2:20 if you wanted to consder going all the way there and saving yourself a night in Fussen and one check-in/out cycle.

Done the castle by 4, in Rothenburg by 6:30 for dinner......