YelenaKost

Hello dear Fodories
For about a month I read your posts to figure out our plan for a first trip to London and Paris, all information was very helpful.
We are going in August this year from 12-22, we are family of 4 : me, DH and 2 DD 14 and 11 y.o.
I booked apartments through AirBnB with very nice ladies, apartment in London is on the Greek street near Tottenham Court Road Station, very close to Oxford St, in Paris is right across from Saint- Augustin walking distance from Saint-Lazare train station. We plan to spend 3 nights in London and 6 nights in Paris.
The plan is filled to a maximum, I entered all what interests us in the same area, but of course will see as we go. Plan to use trains and 2-for-1 discount in London, will purchase 4 day museum pass and Navigo cards in Paris.
Need your input, will appreciate all suggestions and comments.
Here is my plan:
*** LONDON ***
Sat Aug 13
____11:10AM London Gatwick
____1:00 PM London apartment
____3:00 PM St Paul's Cathedral
____5:00 PM evensong, eat
____7:00PM boat ride to London Eye
____8:00PM The London Eye (if no big line)
Sun Aug 14
____9:30 AM Hampton Court Palace, by train
____3:00PM walk by Big Ben, Parliament, London Eye (check the line)
____6:00PM Trafalgar Square, Covent Garden
____________TKTS , check for any theater tickets
Mon Aug 15
____10:00AM Tower of London (book the Yeoman Warden Tour)
____1:00PM walk by Tower Bridge
____2:00PM Borough Market lunch
____3:30PM walk by Southwalk Cathedral
____4:30PM Shakespeare's Globe Theater
____6:00PM TKTS, check for any theater tickets
Tue Aug 16
____9:15AM Buckingham Palace (book online Royal Day Out)
____2:30PM back at the apartment
____4:30PM Eurostar to Paris
____8:00PM Gare De Nord Paris
____9:00PM Paris apartment near St. Augustin
____10:30PM if has power take a cruise from Vedettes Du Pont Neuf
*** PARIS ****
Wed Aug 17
____8:30AM breakfast: Eric Kayser bakery 85 Boulevard Malesherbes
____10:00AM Arc de Triomphe
____11:00AM bus to Champs Elysee Park
____________ walk by Grand Palais, Petit Palais, Place de la Concorde
____2:30PM Jardin de Tuileries Park , snack
____3:30PM Palais Royal
____5:30PM dinner: Auberge Saint Roch 33 Rue Saint-Roch
____5:30PM The Louvre (open until 9) book tour in Louvre
____________or Louvre Masterpieces Tour app on the phone
____9:00PM Pont Alexandre III ( if can) watch sunset
Thu Aug 18
____8:45AM Musee d'Orsay
____12:00PM Hotel des Invalides, snack
____1:30PM Musee de L'Armee
____________ take a cruise to Eiffel
____________ Parc du Champ de Mars
____5:00PM dinner: Le Casse Noix 56 Rue de la Federation
____6-9:00PM Eiffel Tower (book online)
Fri Aug 19
____9:00AM Montparnasse Tower
____10:30AM Catacombs
____12:00PM Le Jardin du Luxembourg, eat
____1:30PM Pantheon
____2:30PM Cluny Museum (not, if no time left)
____4:00PM St Chapelle
____5:30PM Deportation Memorial behind ND
____6:30PM dinner: Sushi6 10 Rue Dauphine
____8:00PM Notre Dame
____________ if didn't do cruise before, then take one
____________from Bateaux Mouches or Bateaux Parisiens
Sat Aug 20
____9:30AM Versailles (book Private apartments of the King tour)
____________maybe stay for The Fountain Night Show from 8:30 to 10:40 pm
____________restaurant near the Grand Canal
Sun Aug 21
____free or do what planned on Monday
Mon Aug 22
____________ take a bus to
____9:30AM Sacre-Coeur
____________ walk down for 30 min to Palais Garnier opera
____________ eat
____2:00PM Palais Garnier opera (book a tour?)
____5:00PM leave for airport

NewDriver

I'm just going to comment on Paris (I lived there some years ago) and I know London less well. Your inventory is very ambitious but still do-able, especially as you've left yourself time to catch up on the Sunday.

If you want to go inside Notre Dame it closes at 6.45pm so you might be better to take in the Memorial then Notre Dame before your dinner. The memorial is stunning and you will want to spend time paying your respects, but you may not need a full hour to progress through, and it does get busy so you might feel a bit of pressure from other visitors to move on.

Also, provided you don't have mobility issues (and can keep your DDs out of the shops!) it only takes about half an hour to 45 mins to walk from the Arc de Triomphe to Place de la Concorde, so I would just walk that whole route instead of taking the bus.

Have a wonderful trip, it sounds brilliant.

YelenaKost

@NewDriver, thank you very much for your comments, I found that Notre Dame is open until 9pm on Friday and Saturday , that's why I wanted to go very late to have less people in line.
About taking a bus, we live in NYC and not into shopping much, so I thought to save an energy for more interesting stuff than look at the shops, but it might very different experience compare to NYC so we will see how it goes.
Thank you again for your suggestions.

Whathello

You can eat at 5 30 pm in Paris ?

I am wary of itineraries so detailed.
You need to go to the loo and whoops it is derailed.

Give yourselves some slack.
Apart from tHat it seems ok.

suze

Just because someone writes up a detailed itinerary in advance, doesn't mean they won't be flexible as their trip unfolds to make changes.

sandralist

Also, just because someone is taking daughters it doesn't mean they will want to go shopping. What year is this? There has been a lot very useful education in not stereotyping others that many have opened their minds to, much appreciated by young women everywhere.

YelenaKost

@WhatHello, you right, looks like control freak made the plan , but I was writing time to see how doable is our plan is, and of course we plan to sit in the park and at the cafes ( my little one can eat every 2 hours and stroll on the streets , but still need a route.
@Suze thank you for defending me

NewDriver

You're welcome - the Champs Elysees has most of the same flagship stores you find in Midtown or in SoHo so you won't be missing out They do have some great grab and go bakeries (it always reminded me of getting a slice but with huge pains au chocolat etc) on the Champs and the whole atmosphere is a bit different to say The Marais or Left Bank.

I took the opening times from the official website for Notre Dame but they may go to later opening hours in high summer, I guess. http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/spip.php?article314 I wouldn't want you to be disappointed, I was there last May and we only just sneaked in, even though 6pm felt very early.

I bet you are glad to be getting out of the city in August. When I worked in NY we could see a temp reading on a ticker from our building on 53rd and it got to 100 degrees some days in August. I've never seen it get that hot in Paris, but it will still be pretty hot, so maybe limiting the walking where you can is a good idea. A quick look at Waterlilies at the Orangerie in Tuileries will cool you right down, if you get the chance while you're in that area.

yestravel

Looks very busy, but doable. I think its helpful to have a list of what you want to see and what's near what. Then ou can do as much or as little as you choose. I love Caisse Noix, but is it open at 5? Don't count on things being "less busy" at night. We genrally visit Paris in the late Fall or winter, but one year we wentin the summer -- packed and jammed! Have a great trip!

BigRuss

I'm not touching the shopping discussion.

Some comments (italic) for your London section:

Sat Aug 13
____11:10AM London Gatwick
____1:00 PM London apartment <i>(you'll be lucky to land at Gatwick and get there that quickly - make sure you can enter at 1, most apartments have 2-3 pm or later entry times and 10-11 am checkouts, and do NOT take the Gatwick Express - there are faster routes to where you'll be.)</i>
____3:00 PM St Paul's Cathedral
____5:00 PM evensong, eat
____7:00PM boat ride to London Eye
____8:00PM The London Eye (if no big line)
Sun Aug 14
____9:30 AM Hampton Court Palace, by train <i>--this means an early start, it takes 45 min to get to HCP and will take time for you to get to Waterloo from Tottenham Court Road, plus you'll be on the Sunday schedules, which means fewer trains</i>
____3:00PM walk by Big Ben, Parliament, London Eye (check the line)
____6:00PM Trafalgar Square, Covent Garden
____________TKTS , check for any theater tickets <i>--best to do this a bit earlier, by 6 or so it's time to find a place to eat before theater; TKTS office is at Leicester Square</i>
Mon Aug 15
____10:00AM Tower of London (book the Yeoman Warden Tour <i>--no booking, just show up</i
____1:00PM walk by Tower Bridge <i>--you can see it from just outside the Tower</i>
____2:00PM Borough Market lunch
____3:30PM walk by Southwalk Cathedral
____4:30PM Shakespeare's Globe Theater
____6:00PM TKTS, check for any theater tickets
Tue Aug 16
____9:15AM Buckingham Palace (book online Royal Day Out)
____2:30PM back at the apartment <i>Can you? usually check out is late morning</i>

P.S. - your Friday in Paris looks completely nuts.

P.P.S. - you may want to switch the Versailles day with a weekday. the palace is mobbed at the best of times and a Saturday will be worse.

KyraS

TKTS has a website where you can check what is on sale that day and the next day. That could save you unnecessary (and costly in terms of time) trips to Leicester Square. Also, all four of you don't have to go and buy tickets if that's not convenient.

The line for the London Eye moves pretty quickly, so if you really do want to go, don't dismiss it just because it seems like a long line. Someone else here might be able to give you a way to judge how long it will take if it has reached a certain point, or you could ask the staff. I would only ride the Eye if it's clear weather.

I'd allow more time for Hampton Court Palace. The maze is fun, the grounds are huge and lovely, the Tudor Kitchens are fabulous. Also, definitely don't miss any costumed interpreter events or tours and check for any special events. The cafes are nice and you can get scones, cake, et cetera in addition to a meal. Tea and a scone outside if it's nice, would be very pleasant.

Southwark Cathedral is pretty from the outside but is worth at least a peek on the inside as well.

You don't have to book a Yeoman Warder tour at the Tower of London, you just join one. And you can see Tower Bridge just fine from the Tower area, some nice views, actually.

Of course you will check this information, but I'd just double-check about the times you can check into and out of your apartment, and if they will hold your luggage for you.

I also doubt you will be at your apartment two hours after landing, but could be wrong.

I suggest you give yourselves a little extra time at St Pancras before your Eurostar departure (but at least 45 minutes) and if you think you'd want any snacks or beverages for the train, buy them before you go through security, as the selection is much better.

Hope you have a great trip.

janisj

• >>____11:10AM London Gatwick
____1:00 PM London apartment
____3:00 PM St Paul's Cathedral <<

Not at all likely. You may touch down and 11:10 -- or even reach the gate by then. But you will be very lucky if you are through immigration by 12:30-ish. Then if you make all your connections (Gatwick Express + two tube rides) it will take almost exactly 1 hour. So say realistically you reach your flat by 2 PM - then get the instruction how things work (I've never taken less than 30 mins getting the 'lay of the land', unpack freshen up -- it will be close to 3 PM . . . it is a 30 minute tube ride to St Paus . . . and the last tix to St Pauls are sold at 4PM . . . and you'll be jet lagged.

• >>Sun Aug 14
____9:30 AM Hampton Court Palace, by train
____3:00PM walk by Big Ben, Parliament, London Eye (check the line)
____6:00PM Trafalgar Square, Covent Garden
____________TKTS , check for any theater tickets<<

The vast majority of London Theatres are dark on Sundays - and most that are open only have matinees. TKTS closes at 4:30 on Sundays and by then the pickings will be VERY slim.

• >>____10:00AM Tower of London (book the Yeoman Warden Tour)<<

One doesn't book the Yeoman Warder tours -- one just shows up and follows.

>>____2:00PM Borough Market lunch <<

I wouldn't bother going to the Market just to eat -- the stalls will be closed. Just have lunch in the Tower or maybe in the marina next door.

IME/IMO the whole plan is awfully regimented -- but <i>mostly</i> doable after you make a few tweaks -- and plan something different for your arrival day.

>>and do NOT take the Gatwick Express - there are faster routes to where you'll be.)<<

BigRuss usually gets things pretty right but not this time I don't think. The LGW Express / Southern Train to Victoria then the tube is probably the fastest to Tottenham Court Rd.

nytraveler

We took our DDs to London and Paris for 2 weeks when they were the same age as yours and I want to strongly encourage you to get them very involved in what you are doing/where eating. Have them check out the Let's Go Student Guides; there will be a lot of info on what young people enjoy seeing/doing.

Ours especially liked Covent Garden in London (went back a second time by themselves when DH and I went gallery hopping) and they wanted to see a ballet in both cities (but may not be possible in August). In Paris they adored the Cluny Museum/Unicorn tapestries. And loved the chance to be able to practice their french in restaurants and shops.

Also, do plan on spending some time apart - or perhaps as 2 sets of two - all of that time joined at the hip can be very stressful. (London tube and Paris metro are both very easy to use and if your DDs are used to the subway they will do fine on them - ours did.)

Agree that this looks more like the Bataan death march than a vacation. We had a list of places we wanted to go (along with opening days and hours) but reserved in advance only what was absolutely necessary. That way we could adapt to how late we had been out the night before, the weather etc.

YelenaKost

Thank you very much for all suggestion and comments. Will go through my plan again.
Didn't take oversees trip for a long time, yes, we will be jet legged, but have to do something with a rest of the day. What we can do with evenings? Also not sure where can I squeeze the St Paul's ? I am reading the Hop On - Hop Off bus is a waste of time.

nwtraveler

The restaurants that you have listed in your Paris itinerary don't open until 7pm. Options are available for eating earlier than 7pm, but make sure you check the hours of operation.

janisj

>>but have to do something with a rest of the day.<<

You really won't have too much 'rest of the day' left after getting acclimated and settled in. I'd maybe go to Covent Garden that afternoon/evening -- lots of places to eat, street performers and it is walking distance from your flat.

You could consider Evensong at Westminster Abbey that afternoon too. If you need the exercise/fresh air you can walk from Covent Garden to the Abbey -- it is about 1.25 miles from Covent Garden Market. I would NOT plan on theatre that night -- jet lag and a darkened theatre are a bad combination.

I probably would plan on a show Monday night - and I would book something now from home and not wait for TKTS. I use TKTS all the time but you are really only have 2.5 usable days in London I would not spend 'sightseeing time' going to Leicester Square.

fuzzbucket

You should réserve at least a few days in advance for Le Casse-Noix, it's a small, very popular restaurant - otherwise you risk not getting a table.

If you want to eat earlier, look for cafés with "service continue" or look for "brasseries", which also serve full meals non-stop.

Here are traditional meal times in Paris - otherwise you can just order drinks:
Breakfast - 07h30 to 11h00
Lunch - 12h00 to 14h30
Dinner - 19h00 to 22h30

fuzzbucket

If you want to eat at Borough Market, you should be there no later than noon. Maybe you could take the Yeoman's Tour afterwards.

Make sure to have a good map with all the streets listed, if you plan to do a lot of walking - London A to Z has a pocket édition for around 6 GBP.

Thé équivalent in Paris would be "Paris par arrondissement - l'Indispensable", about 7 EUR. Both available in newsstands or bookstores.

Heimdall

I like nytraveler's suggestion to get your daughters involved in the planning of your trip, and giving them a chance to spend some time apart. You can stay in touch by cellphone if that lessens your worry.

Get your cellphones set up so you can communicate with each other in London and Paris. If your phones are unlocked you can buy pay-as-you-go SIMs, or if not, buy cheap cellphones to use in Europe. Roaming charges in the EU have been reduced, making it economical to buy a local SIM in the UK and continue to use it in France.

mjs

I think that getting cellphones in London is a good idea and if you can get your children into getting involved in planning it would be great. I should tell you however that we have done over 30 overseas holidays as a family and everyone is just fine to let me do all of the work. I do ask and plead for input but somehow.... I also think it is good to plan an itinerary as it shows that you have done a lot of research. I on the other hand just read about what things that might appeal to us and wing it and plan for time to allow this to happen. We have a vacation coming up and I have put up options of Provence, Southwest England, Sicily, Peru, Iceland and Malaysia as options and so far I am getting little help. Good luck to you.