First trip to Italy
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:06 AM
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First trip to Italy
I'm planning my first trip to Italy with my wife. We are a young newly wed couple and haven't booked yet but want to finalize everything over the next few days. We want to sightsee, enjoy the food and culture. Our trip is flexible and so far will involve
flying into rome and staying in Rome for three nights
train to florence and stay there for three nights
train to Venice and stay there for two nights
Train to milan and stay there for a night
Then train to switzerland to visit my wife's family
We will stay in Switzerland for a number of nights then leave from switzerland to head back to Toronto
I am trying to get a good feel for each destination ( except milan, thats more a good stop over to break up the long train ride from venice to switzerland) need help in locating good affordable hotels/bnbs in the heart of each city so I would not need to use taxi a lot.
I am also curious as to how easy/hard it will be to travel via train with our suitcases.
Can we get some links to look for hotels and to book trains.
Also, would you recommend buying advance tickets for sightseeing?
Any awesome local eateries in each city would be nice.
We plan to go around mid-early March.
Any info on preferred airline to fly on would be great as we are leaving from Toronto Canada.
Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks everyone in advance.
flying into rome and staying in Rome for three nights
train to florence and stay there for three nights
train to Venice and stay there for two nights
Train to milan and stay there for a night
Then train to switzerland to visit my wife's family
We will stay in Switzerland for a number of nights then leave from switzerland to head back to Toronto
I am trying to get a good feel for each destination ( except milan, thats more a good stop over to break up the long train ride from venice to switzerland) need help in locating good affordable hotels/bnbs in the heart of each city so I would not need to use taxi a lot.
I am also curious as to how easy/hard it will be to travel via train with our suitcases.
Can we get some links to look for hotels and to book trains.
Also, would you recommend buying advance tickets for sightseeing?
Any awesome local eateries in each city would be nice.
We plan to go around mid-early March.
Any info on preferred airline to fly on would be great as we are leaving from Toronto Canada.
Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks everyone in advance.
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:36 AM
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Hi Ronick welcome to Fodor's.
Your trip looks good, but I'm wondering where in Switzerland will you be?
It's easy to stay in city centers and walk everywhere. Best website for hotels is booking.com. Others may add info on apartment rental sites.
We fly out of Vancouver, and use Air Canada, using Aeroplan points. We have never had any problems. Their hub in Europe is London, but also have flights to major European cities, including Rome and Zurich. Air Canada is also partners with Lufthansa, with hub in Munich and Frankfurt.
Watch travelzoo for flight specials.
Your trip looks good, but I'm wondering where in Switzerland will you be?
It's easy to stay in city centers and walk everywhere. Best website for hotels is booking.com. Others may add info on apartment rental sites.
We fly out of Vancouver, and use Air Canada, using Aeroplan points. We have never had any problems. Their hub in Europe is London, but also have flights to major European cities, including Rome and Zurich. Air Canada is also partners with Lufthansa, with hub in Munich and Frankfurt.
Watch travelzoo for flight specials.
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:48 AM
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If you're going to be doing all those trains, try to pack light so you can each have a rollaboard-sized suitcase, which can be topped by a small case for valuables, or a purse.
We trained from Rome to Florence in October and it was absolutely no problem, except for finding the right track in Termini Station--it's a zoo there. We took the FrecciaRossa (high speed), and the boarding area was on the left as you faced the tracks (roughly northeast if you look on google maps close up). Give yourself some time before your train to find your way around! Room for luggage at the ends of the cars, and between seats.
In Florence, we stayed in Oltrarno, across the Arno river. It was charming, and somewhat less touristy, highly-recommended. Florence is very compact and walkable. And in Rome we stayed in the area called Monti, also charming, good restaurants and nightlife, younger crowd not as touristy but close to everything, especially the ancient sites--a few minutes walk to the Colosseum.
Don't know what your budget is, neither city is cheap, but we stayed in Hotel Grifo in Rome, and in Soprarno Suites in Florence. We were pleased with both choices. Had great meals in both cities at some wonderful little trattorias near our hotels.
We trained from Rome to Florence in October and it was absolutely no problem, except for finding the right track in Termini Station--it's a zoo there. We took the FrecciaRossa (high speed), and the boarding area was on the left as you faced the tracks (roughly northeast if you look on google maps close up). Give yourself some time before your train to find your way around! Room for luggage at the ends of the cars, and between seats.
In Florence, we stayed in Oltrarno, across the Arno river. It was charming, and somewhat less touristy, highly-recommended. Florence is very compact and walkable. And in Rome we stayed in the area called Monti, also charming, good restaurants and nightlife, younger crowd not as touristy but close to everything, especially the ancient sites--a few minutes walk to the Colosseum.
Don't know what your budget is, neither city is cheap, but we stayed in Hotel Grifo in Rome, and in Soprarno Suites in Florence. We were pleased with both choices. Had great meals in both cities at some wonderful little trattorias near our hotels.
Dec 26th, 2016, 09:25 AM
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Sounds like a reasonable trip. Three nights each in Rome and Florence will just give a 'taste' of each but you'll be able to hit the highlights. Same for two in Venice. You might even be able to squeeze in a day trip from Florence if you don't care about all the museums. Italian cities are much more than their famous museums, lots of first timers just seem to jump from one museum to the next. I would encourage you to plot out some self guided walks around each city - there are lots posted on the internet and in major guidebooks - Frommers is especially good for walking tours. If you did want a day trip from Florence I suggest Siena, which is very easy by bus (which leaves from across the street from the train station). It is one of the larger 'hill towns' but it will give a nice taste of Tuscany and the logistics are simple. With three days Rome and 2 Venice I wouldn't try any day trips.
Trains in Italy are wonderful. You can buy your tickets on line about 60-90 days ahead at deep discounts (around €19) but they won't be changeable. You can also buy them the day of or day before you want to travel but they will be more expensive. High season you could get closed out of the time you want but that's less likely in March. Trenitalia.com
I strongly urge you to travel with a 'carry on' size (e.g. 21") bag plus a day pack or totebag/large purse each). Then there is no problem on trains (room between the seats), easy to walk to your hotel, some hotels have steps just to get to the reception area - many hotels are in old buildings which is a major part of their charm, but they may not have a lift, or it may not go to all floors, etc.
For hotels booking.com is my go to site. Occasionally they will be sold out on certain dates for a hotel I like, then I google the hotel and go to it's own website, but if they have rooms there is usually no financial or other advantage to booking with the hotel directly over booking.com. Just easier on booking.com
Definitely want to book 'multi-city' air fare - into Rome and out of Zurich (I would guess, depending on where you are going in Switzerland).
Trains in Italy are wonderful. You can buy your tickets on line about 60-90 days ahead at deep discounts (around €19) but they won't be changeable. You can also buy them the day of or day before you want to travel but they will be more expensive. High season you could get closed out of the time you want but that's less likely in March. Trenitalia.com
I strongly urge you to travel with a 'carry on' size (e.g. 21") bag plus a day pack or totebag/large purse each). Then there is no problem on trains (room between the seats), easy to walk to your hotel, some hotels have steps just to get to the reception area - many hotels are in old buildings which is a major part of their charm, but they may not have a lift, or it may not go to all floors, etc.
For hotels booking.com is my go to site. Occasionally they will be sold out on certain dates for a hotel I like, then I google the hotel and go to it's own website, but if they have rooms there is usually no financial or other advantage to booking with the hotel directly over booking.com. Just easier on booking.com
Definitely want to book 'multi-city' air fare - into Rome and out of Zurich (I would guess, depending on where you are going in Switzerland).
Dec 26th, 2016, 09:46 AM
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I am also curious as to how easy/hard it will be to travel via train with our suitcases.>
How many and how big- I like ones with wheels as can wheel heavy loads up and down short stairs and longer distances in train stations- first class on trains has more room for luggage as there are fewer folks traveling in same size train car as in 2nd class (about 1/4 fewer seats) and first-class tickets come in discounted versions too -sometimes at not much more than the cheapest available 2ndcl and as always first class has several significant advantages.
And if going first class check out the Italy-Switzerland railpass (new in 2017) which covers all regular trains in each country - 1stcl a better deal on the pass than 2nd and you can chose which trains to take once there.
For lots of good info on trains in those countries check www.seat61.com- especially this one for discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
How many and how big- I like ones with wheels as can wheel heavy loads up and down short stairs and longer distances in train stations- first class on trains has more room for luggage as there are fewer folks traveling in same size train car as in 2nd class (about 1/4 fewer seats) and first-class tickets come in discounted versions too -sometimes at not much more than the cheapest available 2ndcl and as always first class has several significant advantages.
And if going first class check out the Italy-Switzerland railpass (new in 2017) which covers all regular trains in each country - 1stcl a better deal on the pass than 2nd and you can chose which trains to take once there.
For lots of good info on trains in those countries check www.seat61.com- especially this one for discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
Dec 26th, 2016, 09:46 AM
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I would comment on a few items.
>>> I am also curious as to how easy/hard it will be to travel via train with our suitcases.
It depends on amount and the kind of "suitcases" you are traveling with and how mobile you are. Escalators/elevators exist at large stations, but for quickly movements, it is best if you can carry luggage up and down stairs to/from the platforms.
>>> Also, would you recommend buying advance tickets for sightseeing?
This depends on unstated list of where you plan to visit.
>>> Any info on preferred airline to fly on would be great as we are leaving from Toronto Canada.
I am not sure if you even looked at flight choices. I don't think you have much choices. They are mostly unending permutations of Air Canada and their numerous code share partners with a sprinkle of non Star Alliance flights. Unless you are wedded to a frequent flyer obligation, look at key elements to narrow down flights and look at who the carriers are.
Key elements to look for:
Departure/arrival time Toronto side.
Arrival/departure time in Italy and back from Switzerland. Many people book flights before verifying that the flights connect with the ground parts.
Layover considerations. Super short layover requiring terminal change at a sprawling airport is asking for a trouble.
Cost, of course.
Fall back for foul ups. If there is a foul up with your flight, airline alliance with numerous other ways to take you to your destinations would minimize the damage. For example, look up Lufthansa strike impact over last two years.
>>> I am also curious as to how easy/hard it will be to travel via train with our suitcases.
It depends on amount and the kind of "suitcases" you are traveling with and how mobile you are. Escalators/elevators exist at large stations, but for quickly movements, it is best if you can carry luggage up and down stairs to/from the platforms.
>>> Also, would you recommend buying advance tickets for sightseeing?
This depends on unstated list of where you plan to visit.
>>> Any info on preferred airline to fly on would be great as we are leaving from Toronto Canada.
I am not sure if you even looked at flight choices. I don't think you have much choices. They are mostly unending permutations of Air Canada and their numerous code share partners with a sprinkle of non Star Alliance flights. Unless you are wedded to a frequent flyer obligation, look at key elements to narrow down flights and look at who the carriers are.
Key elements to look for:
Departure/arrival time Toronto side.
Arrival/departure time in Italy and back from Switzerland. Many people book flights before verifying that the flights connect with the ground parts.
Layover considerations. Super short layover requiring terminal change at a sprawling airport is asking for a trouble.
Cost, of course.
Fall back for foul ups. If there is a foul up with your flight, airline alliance with numerous other ways to take you to your destinations would minimize the damage. For example, look up Lufthansa strike impact over last two years.
Dec 26th, 2016, 10:45 AM
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Trains may still have two steps to get into too and with a rush of people.... you may have to, esp in 2ndcl to navigate already crowded trains and narrow aisles with your bags to get to your seat (I never stash my bags out of my eyesight)-these things cannot be avoided and again in 1st class are a bit better with fewer people -and be sure you can life your bags easily and then fit them into perhaps already crowded overhead luggage racks- again worst in 2ndcl.
Try to pack light when taking the train - lots of potential hassles. Once in stations carry euro coins to put in luggage trolleys awaiting departing passengers- return the cart to a lockup in the station and get your coin back but if no coin...be prepared.
Too bad except for Switzerland it seems you can no longer check luggage on trains- long gone.
Try to pack light when taking the train - lots of potential hassles. Once in stations carry euro coins to put in luggage trolleys awaiting departing passengers- return the cart to a lockup in the station and get your coin back but if no coin...be prepared.
Too bad except for Switzerland it seems you can no longer check luggage on trains- long gone.
Dec 26th, 2016, 05:52 PM
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Which city and how far can you walk?
In Venice you can take a vaparetto - aka a 'water bus', you can buy a day pass, a multi day pass, or single rides. But mostly I walk.
Rome has a metro and plenty of buses. But mostly I walk.
Florence has buses. But mostly I walk.
Milan has a good metro.
Have been to all three cities multiple times, never taken a taxi in any of them. But I walk approximately 10 miles a day on trips.
I will occasionally take a taxi when I first arrive in a city if the hotel is far from the train station and looks hard to find. But with google maps I usually just map out the directions ahead of time and have rarely had trouble finding the hotels I've booked.
If you have mobility problems of course you would use taxi's more (in Venice that would be water taxis and they are quite expensive). In larger cities like Paris and London you can't walk everywhere so the metro (aka 'subway') is necessary for most people, but for the places you are going I urge you to walk as much as possible.
In Venice you can take a vaparetto - aka a 'water bus', you can buy a day pass, a multi day pass, or single rides. But mostly I walk.
Rome has a metro and plenty of buses. But mostly I walk.
Florence has buses. But mostly I walk.
Milan has a good metro.
Have been to all three cities multiple times, never taken a taxi in any of them. But I walk approximately 10 miles a day on trips.
I will occasionally take a taxi when I first arrive in a city if the hotel is far from the train station and looks hard to find. But with google maps I usually just map out the directions ahead of time and have rarely had trouble finding the hotels I've booked.
If you have mobility problems of course you would use taxi's more (in Venice that would be water taxis and they are quite expensive). In larger cities like Paris and London you can't walk everywhere so the metro (aka 'subway') is necessary for most people, but for the places you are going I urge you to walk as much as possible.
Dec 26th, 2016, 09:44 PM
#12
<font color="#0000FF">need help in locating good affordable hotels/bnbs in the heart of each city so I would not need to use taxi a lot</font>
As you are largely using trains, I'd consider staying in the Monti area in Rome <i>(walking distance to the Termini station and close to all major sights except the Vatican which is a short metro ride away)</i>, the area between Santa Maria Novella station and the Duomo in Florence <i>(very compact city, everything reachable on foot)</i> and the district of Cannaregio in Venice <i>(walking distance to/from Venezia Santa Lucia station, even with bags. Everywhere else walk or use the vaporetto)</i>. There are more "atmospeheric" places to stay in each but my suggestions are driven by practicality and budget considerations hinted in your post.
<font color="#0000FF">Can we get some links to look for hotels and to book trains</font>
You can use booking or Tripadvisor type sites (use their location filters) to lookup hotel/B&B options and reviews, but I always book directly with the property. For trains use www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en or www.trainline.eu - do not use RailEurope. Buying 3 months in advance will get you heavily discounted fares.
<font color="#0000FF">Also, would you recommend buying advance tickets for sightseeing</font>
For some attractions e.g. the Colosseum/Forums and Vatican (in Rome), or the Uffizi or Accademia museums (in Florence), it makes sense to pre-book to avoid queues and/or ensure availability on a date/time of your preference
As you are largely using trains, I'd consider staying in the Monti area in Rome <i>(walking distance to the Termini station and close to all major sights except the Vatican which is a short metro ride away)</i>, the area between Santa Maria Novella station and the Duomo in Florence <i>(very compact city, everything reachable on foot)</i> and the district of Cannaregio in Venice <i>(walking distance to/from Venezia Santa Lucia station, even with bags. Everywhere else walk or use the vaporetto)</i>. There are more "atmospeheric" places to stay in each but my suggestions are driven by practicality and budget considerations hinted in your post.
<font color="#0000FF">Can we get some links to look for hotels and to book trains</font>
You can use booking or Tripadvisor type sites (use their location filters) to lookup hotel/B&B options and reviews, but I always book directly with the property. For trains use www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en or www.trainline.eu - do not use RailEurope. Buying 3 months in advance will get you heavily discounted fares.
<font color="#0000FF">Also, would you recommend buying advance tickets for sightseeing</font>
For some attractions e.g. the Colosseum/Forums and Vatican (in Rome), or the Uffizi or Accademia museums (in Florence), it makes sense to pre-book to avoid queues and/or ensure availability on a date/time of your preference
Dec 27th, 2016, 12:21 AM
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Airline: doesn't much matter. What really makes a difference is business class rather than coach.
Food: if you want good food, its going to cost at least $50 per person. Bad food abounds in those cites, and the only way to sort it out is by price. Tripadvisor's restaurant ratings are worthless. Either these people have no idea of what a good meal is like, or they go nuts in Italy. Whatever, ignore. if you want good advice, see Michelin Guide or Fodor's web site, and then forget it. They will have you running all over town to get a good meal, but odds are you can match it at the closets restaurant to your hotel where the price is at least $50 per person.
I would cut Florence to two nights and add a night in Rome.
To find hotels: Tripadvisor.
Bus & metro is a good way to get around in Rome. Save $$ with day or multi-day passes. Study with Internet or guide books on how to use public transportation.
Go to the web site for UK's Home Office for advice on personal safety. Pickpockets & purse snatchers are a big threat, terrorists, not so much. I've taken 48 vacations in EU, never was victim of a theft. My tactic is to put money & valuable documents in a pouch that hangs around my neck inside my shirt. My wallet says in the hotel safe, 24 hrs a day. My wife has the same good record by using the smallest possible purse to carry her stuff that has a very thick leather over the shoulder strap which must be worn by crossing her body: over the right shoulder and then under the left armpit.
If you want to see the Sistine Chapel (which I would not recommend), a tour is essential to skip the long admission lines. Make sure your tour has line jumping. You will also see part of the impressive Vatican Museum. If you are into museums, and want to see the Vatican Museum in depth, drop out of your tour at the entrance to the Sistine, see the rest of the museum, then go to Sistine & take bus or metro home. Double check this plan with your tour guide, just to be safe.
A side trip to Pisa either on the way to Florence or from Florence is a must.
Best sights in Florence: Domo Square & the San Lorenzo complex.
I wouldn't recommend advanced reservations for anything except hotels. If Canadian web sites are like US, you will pay significantly more for train in advance than if you do it in Italy. It is bit of a hassle to do it yourself, but ask the concierge to set you up & tip generously. OR go to local travel agency in Italy. Or you can do it on the Italian RR web site in advance get the local price.
Alternative to tours: Do it yourself with a good guide book. Best are Michelin Green Guide & DK Eyewitness which lay out walking tours in each city.
Rome: see web site for hop on hop off bus.
Food: if you want good food, its going to cost at least $50 per person. Bad food abounds in those cites, and the only way to sort it out is by price. Tripadvisor's restaurant ratings are worthless. Either these people have no idea of what a good meal is like, or they go nuts in Italy. Whatever, ignore. if you want good advice, see Michelin Guide or Fodor's web site, and then forget it. They will have you running all over town to get a good meal, but odds are you can match it at the closets restaurant to your hotel where the price is at least $50 per person.
I would cut Florence to two nights and add a night in Rome.
To find hotels: Tripadvisor.
Bus & metro is a good way to get around in Rome. Save $$ with day or multi-day passes. Study with Internet or guide books on how to use public transportation.
Go to the web site for UK's Home Office for advice on personal safety. Pickpockets & purse snatchers are a big threat, terrorists, not so much. I've taken 48 vacations in EU, never was victim of a theft. My tactic is to put money & valuable documents in a pouch that hangs around my neck inside my shirt. My wallet says in the hotel safe, 24 hrs a day. My wife has the same good record by using the smallest possible purse to carry her stuff that has a very thick leather over the shoulder strap which must be worn by crossing her body: over the right shoulder and then under the left armpit.
If you want to see the Sistine Chapel (which I would not recommend), a tour is essential to skip the long admission lines. Make sure your tour has line jumping. You will also see part of the impressive Vatican Museum. If you are into museums, and want to see the Vatican Museum in depth, drop out of your tour at the entrance to the Sistine, see the rest of the museum, then go to Sistine & take bus or metro home. Double check this plan with your tour guide, just to be safe.
A side trip to Pisa either on the way to Florence or from Florence is a must.
Best sights in Florence: Domo Square & the San Lorenzo complex.
I wouldn't recommend advanced reservations for anything except hotels. If Canadian web sites are like US, you will pay significantly more for train in advance than if you do it in Italy. It is bit of a hassle to do it yourself, but ask the concierge to set you up & tip generously. OR go to local travel agency in Italy. Or you can do it on the Italian RR web site in advance get the local price.
Alternative to tours: Do it yourself with a good guide book. Best are Michelin Green Guide & DK Eyewitness which lay out walking tours in each city.
Rome: see web site for hop on hop off bus.
Dec 27th, 2016, 04:59 AM
#14
Just a question: the shortest timing from Venice to Zurich by rail takes 7 hours and involves one change in Milan (I am assuming here that you want to go from Venice directly TO Zurich and are not stopping at some other Swiss city on the way).
That "7 hours" includes the layover/change in Milan. Do you really consider this a "long" train trip" or at least long enough to get a hotel for the night (if so I can recommend one) in a city you had no intention of visiting?
That "7 hours" includes the layover/change in Milan. Do you really consider this a "long" train trip" or at least long enough to get a hotel for the night (if so I can recommend one) in a city you had no intention of visiting?
Dec 27th, 2016, 05:01 AM
#15
BTW, you can fly between Venice and Zurich in one hour and 15 minutes and cheaply if you book far enough out on EasyJet.
And as much as I love train travel don't let ANYBODY tell you that this won't be "as fast as the train."
And as much as I love train travel don't let ANYBODY tell you that this won't be "as fast as the train."
Dec 27th, 2016, 09:24 AM
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Website for trains is trenitalia.com. I booked in advance for Rome-Florence. Book early and you have a range of price options.
Florence is pretty well completely walkable, although taxis are an option.
Rome has a (limited) Metro, but has some good bus routes. Walking is good for many sights, depending on where you're staying. We took the Metro between the Monti district where we stayed and the Vatican, for instance.
Florence is pretty well completely walkable, although taxis are an option.
Rome has a (limited) Metro, but has some good bus routes. Walking is good for many sights, depending on where you're staying. We took the Metro between the Monti district where we stayed and the Vatican, for instance.
Dec 27th, 2016, 04:27 PM
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Thanks again for all he tips.
Wasatch he reason for three nights in Florence was to take a trip to visit the Pisa. Instead of traveling around with my carry-on bag I can be a bit more comfortable, especially with time.
I will also skip the sistine chapel
Dukey1, yes I consider 7 HOURS by train long. I have the extra time so was thinking to take advantage and spend a night in milan. No clue where. But if milan has nothing to offer then maybe the money would be best spent on the flight from venice to Zurich
Wasatch he reason for three nights in Florence was to take a trip to visit the Pisa. Instead of traveling around with my carry-on bag I can be a bit more comfortable, especially with time.
I will also skip the sistine chapel
Dukey1, yes I consider 7 HOURS by train long. I have the extra time so was thinking to take advantage and spend a night in milan. No clue where. But if milan has nothing to offer then maybe the money would be best spent on the flight from venice to Zurich
Dec 27th, 2016, 08:15 PM
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Expedia often debits your funds immediately, which can be good if the exchange rate is favorable.
Booking.com on the other hand, is on a Pay at the Hotel basis mostly, unless you are booking a non-refundable deal. Watch out for that!
I also like booking.com review system. Only those who have booked and stayed are invited to send a review.
Booking.com shows the rate you pay, whereas with Expedia, you must go to the second screen to see what the added taxes/charges are going to be.
Booking.com on the other hand, is on a Pay at the Hotel basis mostly, unless you are booking a non-refundable deal. Watch out for that!
I also like booking.com review system. Only those who have booked and stayed are invited to send a review.
Booking.com shows the rate you pay, whereas with Expedia, you must go to the second screen to see what the added taxes/charges are going to be.
