armando0176

Hello Fellow Fodors - My wife and I are in the planning phase for our trip to Europe this September for 16 days (September 15th to September 30th). This is our first trip to Europe, so any advice or recommendations will be much appreciated. We have the following countries/cities in mind with ITALY a MUST. I am not including total days we would like to stay in each city in hopes that your responses will recommend the right amount of days for each city for the 16 days we have set for our vacation. Architecture, Food and History (WWII) are key attractions.

- Rome
- Florence
- Venice
- Greece (various cities to choose from, help)
- Paris
- Germany (Munich)
- Bruge
- Brussels
- Amsterdam

How many of these cities are doable? We are looking for the best 16 day trip of our lives (to this point). Spain was an idea, but feel that will be a trip on it's own. Please help us nail down total cities and recommended days in each city accounting for transportation and travel times. We want to enjoy and not feel rushed, but get the most out our trip. My initial thoughts are that 4-5 of these cities are feasible for 16 days. Starting point is Chicago, IL. Thanks everyone. I'm really looking forward to your responses. Only 4 months away (was told buying around 3 month mark is best). This is very exciting.

Debs

If Itaty is a must, then just focus your trip on Italy. You could easily spend your time in Rome, Florence and Venice, and really par down your travel time from place to place. Are you driving or taking the train? Make any advance reservations so you can skip the lines at say the Vatican.

If you feel the need to combine another city, IMHO, it would be Paris. More than that, again, IMHO, wouldn't be relaxing.

If you don't aleady have your plane tickets, fly into one city (Rome), then out of another (Paris) to eliminte back tracking and maximizing your time. You might want to look into flying to Milan, then driving from there. Milan normally offers lower prices on tickets than if flying into another city.

Would definitely save Greece for another trip.

Architecture, Food and History are probably among the top 5 things everyone wants to do when traveling. Maybe you can narrow it down from there.

Get a good guidebook or two from the library, focusing on these cities so you can decide what best fits your interests. That's part of the fun of traveling!

Edward2005

I agree that focusing on Italy would be best since that is your main interest. However, you should set aside 3 or 4 nights to stay in a smaller Italian hill town in Umbria or Tuscany. There is so very much more to Italy than the usual Rome-Florence-Venice trio. The hill towns are another world.

Sassafrass

With Italy being at the top of your list, September being such a perfect time to be there, and a lifetime of treasures to see and experiences to enjoy, I highly recommend staying in Italy the whole time and adding Pompeii and the Amalfi Coast. It is easier to add it to this trip rather than wish you had, and want to add it to another trip when it would be more difficult. Every move eats up about half a day, give or take a bit, getting from hotel to train station, to next town, to new hotel. In most of Italy, train is better than a car. Direct, city center to city center, no parking and no worries about no driving zones. Buy multi-destination or multi-city tickets (not two one way), into one city, out of another, saves a day wasted in travel and the cost of backtracking.

Venice, 3 nights, 2 days
Florence/Tuscany, 4 nights, 3 days
Amalfi Coast, 4 nights, 3 days
Rome, 4 nights, 3 days

Arrive in Venice, 3 nights (maybe a day trip to Islands or Vincenza)

Train to Florence (Tuscany) 4 nights, Tour Florence, rent car, see hill towns and countryside. You could also use trains or buses and stay in Florence without a car.

Sorrento or someplace on the AC, 4 nights. Drop car in Florence and train to AC or drive to Sorrento and drop car. You could also take train further South on the coast, but for short, first trip, Sorrento, though not actually on the AC, would be good base. Take train to Pompeii and ferry down the AC to Positano and Amalfi.

Train to Rome, 4 nights.

If that does not appeal and you absolutely must see a place in another country, then
Paris for 4 nights
Fly to Venice
Florence
Rome

When you decide what you want to see in each place, you may allocate time differently.

Sassafrass

Wow! First three responses all saying stay in Italy.

armando0176

Thank you all for your quick responses and look forward to more. This helps tons. Sassafrass, I can't tell if you agree with the first 3 responses or disagree. If you disagree, can you give your recommendation? Thanks!

Kathie

Since Italy is their top priority, it makes sense to say there. Remember that travel time takes away from your time to explore the places you came for. It takes four nights in a city to give you three full days. I like the first itinerary Sassafrass lays out.

armando0176

Oops, sorry Sassafrass, didn't notice your name on your first reply. Nevermind my reply prior to this one.

Southam

Arithmetic: Subtract a day at each end of your time frame for travelling to and from Europe. Subtract at least half a day each time you change cities. Use a multi-destination search function so you fly into one city and home from another.
So: 14 days, not 16, on the ground. If you choose three cities, that's 1/2 x 1/2 = 1 day lost for inter-city travel. You're down to 13 days, enough to do a decent visit to your three Italian cities, or Paris-Amsterdam-Brussels with a day trip to Bruge, or...... Well, I hope you see the point. In European travel, less moving is definitely more fun.

armando0176

Any recommendations on accommodations, i.e. what hotels in those areas, air bnb, etc....?

menachem

booking.com is your friend.

nytraveler

You need to clarify ow many days in europe - not counting the 1/2 day jet lagged that you arrive and the day you depart (not time to sightsee). Plus you need to allow 1/2 a day each time you move from one city to another.

Assuming you actually have 14.5 days on the ground I would limit yourself to 4 cities - so you can actually see some of each one versus spending a lot of time and money in transit and then a day rushing through each city.

Remember for most of these each time you change cities there is a different language, different culture, different meal times, different transit systems. Trying to do that every 2 days can get incredibly stressful.

Agree that all Italy make sense - but I would include a few days in the lakes in the north to get a little more variety.

Or if you want more of a mix and are very interested in WWII you might combine 2 cities in Italy with 2 areas in Germany (but focus on Berlin as well as Munich to get more WWII history).

And you really need to decide on cities and get your air organized (be sure to do open jaws - called multi-destination on web sites - to go into the first city and home from the last to avoid wasting time and money making a giant circle.

Then you can think about hotels. For that you need to give us a specific nightly budget in $ or euros - and what you are expecting for that (cheap and cheerful, modest, or more upscale with lots of amenities).

Whathello

I disagree on staying in Italy the whole trip. Too much to see, too many same museums etc. Esp for a first trip.
I would balance 2 italian cities with 2 german, why not.

WW2 in Germany is not much to see - it was carpet bombed and the main fightings took place elsewhre. So in MMuenchen I can see Dachau, in Berlin, the remains of the flak tower and some but ...

flpab

fly into Munich, check out http://www.thirdreichruins.com/ will point out things that are not marked in Munich.
Take train down to Garmisch, spend the night and explore this beautiful area. The http://www.bavaria.us/partnach-gorge...irchen-germany.
Get on the train and go to Verona, Italy from there. Explore by train and bus and spend enough time in Florence.
My Dad fought at Anzio, said they froze and nearly starved.
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com...les/anzio.aspx

Tuscany can be done by bus and train but would be fun by car to reach all the vineyards. Just obey the zone laws or you will get tickets.

Other option would be fly into Paris, train to Alsace region and then Italy. Fly out of Rome or Pisa or Florence.

TDudette

Add me to the group that suggests you concentrate on Italy. You have to choose, but I loved Spoleto, Orvieto, Assissi, Gubbio and Perugia and would take away from Amalfi Coast for those.

Wonderful to be considering!

buzzcolin

Leave out Germany and Greece. Amsterdam, Bruges and Paris are all good choices and then onto Venice - all by train. From Venice drive through Umbria / Tuscany and finally Rome.

Amsterdam - 2 nights
Bruges - 2 nights
Paris - 3 nights
Venice - 3 nights
Tuscany / Umbrian small town - 3 nights
Rome - 3 nights.

With 2 night stops you have one day to explore and 3 night stops 2 days to explore. With this plan you could easily fly into Amsterdam and out of Rome. Good luck and Enjoy.

PalenQ

Paris 4 nights- take overnight train to Venice
Venice, 3 nights, 2 days
Florence/Tuscany, 4 nights, 3 days
Rome, 4 nights, 3 days

tweeking sass's suggested itinerary and substituting Paris for the Amalfi Coast - the overnight train Paris to Venice can be an adventure - get a private compartment and bring all the food and drink on board you want - save time even over flying

Fly into Paris and out of Rome.

For train info check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

The Amalfi is nice but I rather spend 4 days in Paris if you've never been there. You could also fly from Paris to Italy of course.

armando0176

I like your suggestion as well PalenQ. It does seem like the typical Europe trip, but for a first timer I would think those are the places to go, correct me if I'm wrong. I'll have to convince the wife to remove Amalfi Coast as she has seemed to fall in love with the Amalfi pics. Any chance of squeezing in Amalfi or too much?

Buzzcolin, I like yours as well, but I feel we would need more time to enjoy those spots by the fullest, especially Paris, Roma and Florence.

I also think Greece and Spain are 2 trips on their own and another trip may have to be Germany, Amsterdam, Bruges, Brussels.

From all your suggestions, I believe we've narrowed down our trip to Italy (Rome, Florence (Tuscany), Venice and Amalfi) or Italy and Paris. What does everyone think?

nytraveler

Well if given the choice between Paris and the AC I would pick Paris every time. It is simply a glorious, beautiful city with an incredible number of sights and many opportunities to relax and watch the very interesting world go by.

While I also think the AC is beautiful for me it is definitely secondary - but then I am not a beach person and can't sit by a pool for more than about 30 minutes without being bored.

We can't pick for you - but I would get a guide book for each and think about how you would spend your days there.

And of course you can always squeeze in one more place or 2 or 3 - but you are then spending more and more time and money just in transit - and skimping on the time spent in these incredible places.

Sassafrass

Many people do want Paris for a first trip. Night train sounds easy and romantic, but iffy for sleep. I like trains, but haven't done an overnight sleeper in at least 25 years. I was younger then and it was a friend's birthday, so the sleeping part was not important. Maybe you will get other perspectives on that.

You do need the 4 nights in Paris because the first day will be after a long flight and not good for real sightseeing.
In any case, with 4 places, Rome will be shortchanged a bit, but it is doable.
Four major places starts to feel a little rushed, so maybe fewer day trips.

Don't let things get too complicated right now.
Settle on your basic itinerary - 3 or 4 places, 3/4 night stops minimum (for this trip) Best not to add a bunch more places with short stops.
Get flights and all that squared away.
Then hotels.
Then, plan some day trips, but don't feel tied to them. Toss the plans if you want to sit at a cafe or I walk instead. and don't feel bad doing so.

Now, if you really want another place like Paris for three days and plan to fly to Italy, that could be just about anywhere with a short cheap flight. Barcelona, Amsterdam, Paris are all short flights to Italy. Some might be easier flying into Rome than Venice, so you would reverse the Italy part.

Me, I would still spend the whole time in Italy! More of an immersion (if that could ever be said for two weeks. LOL), less of a whirlwind feeling.