nikhilsharma

Hi friends,

I am planning to visit Europe for the first time. I have around 2 weeks of time on me. The places which I want to cover are: Italy (Rome, Vatican, Pisa, Florence, Venice), France (Paris, Normandy), and possibly Germany (Berlin).

I am thinking of doing this whole trip on my own, rather than go through some tour package. I want to start with Italy, then head to Berlin (if I am going to Germany), and then head to Paris.

Could you please help with my queries? Would really appreciate some tips as I have never traveled to Europe.

1. I want to spend 3 days in Rome/Vatican, 1 day in Pisa, 2 days in Florence and 1 day in Venice. This is a total of 7 days. This leaves me with more 6 days to travel (keeping 1 day for spare). In Paris, I want to explore the city on my own, taking city tours and historical tours. So, should I include Berlin in this itinerary and shorten my Paris visit?

2. Within Italy, what's the best way to travel between the cities (Rome, Pisa, Florence, Venice)? I have heard about train travel. But I believe bus travel gives you a different perspective. So what about bus travels within Italy?

3. What's the best way to travel within Paris? I plan to visit the famous attractions, and other not so famous places (like streets mentioned in Modiano's novels, the Impressionists tour etc.)

Any additional tips would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
Nikhil.

janisj

You only have 2 weeks and want to visit 7 different cities/places (not counting the Vatican which is IN Rome. That really is not enough time -- you have not allowed ant time for travel between places. For instance moving from Venice to Paris will use up most of a day. Florence to Venice takes about half a day. So if you want one full day in Venice you need to stay <u>two</u> nights.

7 days is not long enough for Rome/the Vatican, Florence, Pisa, and Venice. Plus you can't really count your arrival day, so to get 7 full days 'on the ground' in Italy you would need 9 nights.

Paris to Normandy and back will take an entire day.

Your specific questions:

1) You don't really have enough time for Berlin even if you do cut time from Paris.

2) Trains are the best way to travel most of your itinerary but flying is better for the long journeys like Venice to Paris. Buses will take forever -- you just don't have the time.

3) Walking, the Metro, and sometimes buses.

Sassafrass

Sometimes you have to take a bus to towns that are not serviced by trains, but the places you are going are best by train. Trains go from city center to city center, run often and are comfortable.

You say about two weeks. To get the best advice itinerary wise, it is good to know exactly how many days. Does your two weeks include travel time to Europe? Where are you coming from. Generally, your first day you will have some jet-lag, so may not get much sight seeing in.

Venice is a little easier to start in because it is smaller, walkable and if you do not go into a single sight, it is still beautiful and worth seeing.

Rome is bigger, busier and requires energy to see things.

Now for your proposed days in each place. You have to allow for travel time. You also have to count in time getting to the train station and time getting from the train station to your next hotel. For example, Rome to Pisa can be just under three hours up to five hours. If you went directly from Rome, you would have 1/2 day in Pisa, not one day, though 1/2 day is enough for most people.

However, I suggest you do Pisa as a day trip from Florence. You could even add in Luca in the same day because it is very close to Pisa so you could see a small walled city also.

Are you big into Art? If not one whole day might be enough for Florence. Coming from Rome though will cost you some travel time. If you get up early you could be there by mid-morning from Rome or noon if you are coming from Venice.

Book your tickets multi-city, (not one way) into one city, out of another. Even if it costs a bit more, you won't waste time backtracking or spend money on a train or plane to return to your arrival city.

Suggested itinerary, which for a variety of reasons, I like starting in Paris.
Day 1, depart from home
Day 2, arrive Paris, some walking, a bit of sight seeing
Day 3, Paris
Day 4, Paris
Day 5, fly to Venice, depending on flight time, 1/2 day in Venice
Day 6, Venice
Day 7, train to Florence about 1/2 day in Florence
Day 8, Florence
Day 9, Pisa and Luca day trip from Florence
Day 10, travel to Rome, 3/4 day Rome
Day 11, Rome
Day 12, Rome - Vatican
Day 13, Rome
Day 14, depart for home

If you have more time, the itinerary could be expanded, but you would have to really consider where would be a good fit so you don't use up the extra days traveling a long distance and not seeing much. If you do have an extra day or two, I would add one to Paris and one to Rome, or do a day trip from Rome (or Paris).

Planning is a lot of fun, seriously, so hope you enjoy it.

nikhilsharma

Thanks JanisJ, Sassafrass for the replies.

nikhilsharma

Hi Friends,

Thanks for the replies, now I have fine tuned my plan a little more after the suggestions.

Couple of points I would like to add:
- I am deeply into Art. So any pointers to special stores/markets in Paris/Rome would help.
- I can add 1 or 2 days if needed to the whole plan.


Day Plan
Day-0 Leave from Bombay to Rome
Day-1 Reach Rome (See Colosseum, city)
Day-2 Rome (See Vatican)
Day-3 Rome (See Ghetto/Tour)
Day-4 Leave for Florence (See Florence)
Day-5 Florence (See Pisa, Lucca)
Day-6 Florence (See Florence)
Day-7 Leave for Venice (See Venice canals, gondola)
Day-8 Leave for Paris by flight (see Paris city)
Day-9 Paris (see Eiffel, Arc, Boulevard)
Day-10 Paris (see Versailes )
Day-11 Paris (take Normandy tour)
Day-12 Paris (guided Art Tour + Louvre)
Day-13 Paris (explore Paris city + Louvre)
Day-14 Leave from Paris to Bombay

1. What do you think of the above itinerary? Any fixes or improvements?
2. Should I Train-travel between Rome-Florence and Florence-Venice. Or would bus trip be more scenic? (at the cost of time)

Regards,
Nikhil.

Blueeyedcod

You're coming from India and plan to sightsee on the day you land? I hope you don't suffer jetlag. I would recommend booking skip the line tickets for the Colosseum otherwise you'll be fighting off your jetlag in a line that can last for two hours or more.
Have you factored in closures (the Vatican Museums are closed Sundays and most museums Mondays).

Day 6-7 you travel from Florence to Venice, overnight in Venice and then leave for Paris the next day? Overnighting in Venice won't do it justice but if a gondola trip is all you want to do then you'll have time.

Skip the line tickets are a must for the Eiffel Tower and Versailles. Normandy is a long, long day trip from Paris.

This itinerary is very intense but if it's the way you wish to travel then good luck.

Sarastro

For the Paris portion of your trip, consider the Paris Museum Pass sold for 2, 4, or 6 days.

http://en.parismuseumpass.com/

The museum pass can give you access to certain Louvre entrances, depending upon their being open when you are there, that are not available to those without tickets. It can help you enter the Musée d´Orsay as well if you decide to go there and possibly Versailles. Generally however, the only lines you´ll skip with tickets in hand are the ticket purchase lines, not the longer security lines.

People go to a lot of trouble to obtain the few advance purchase Eiffel Tower tickets that are available (or they pay exorbitant fees to a third party). I personally do not think it is worth the trouble or expense. I might suggest two strategies:

1. Arrive at 08h30 for the 09h00 (summer) opening. The crowds generally are minimal at opening. Lines tend to be shorter at the South (Sud) pier.

2. Reserve for lunch at 58 Tour Eiffel. Do this well in advance and it costs little more than what the 3rd parties charge for their <i>tours</i> plus you get to eat. You can purchase tickets to the top floor separately (but it is not always open).

http://www.restaurants-toureiffel.co...1710/rid/3713/

Yes, your itinerary is very full but manageable if you have the energy.

sandralist

hi,

The bus ride between cities in Italy is not more scenic, so it is better to use the trains. Sometimes it is simpler to take the bus rather than the train between Lucca and Florence, but most people take the train.

If you can add a few days to your trip, that would of course be great. I suggest adding them to the place that you personally find most attractive in terms of its art offerings, whether that is in Italy or in France. But I also suggest that you first look at plane schedules for Venice. If you spend one night there, you might not have much time the next day to sightsee before you need to leave for the airport. It depends on how much art you want to see in Venice (there is a lot to see if you are interested in Italian painting and mosaic).

Florence has more to offer than Lucca with respect to art, especially if your interest is painting, so you might want to skip Lucca in favor of more time in Florence. You need to make reservatons at some museums in Florence to avoid long lines to enter.

I am not sure from your question what special stores and markets you would like to find in Rome and Paris.

Christina

In big cities, it is always most useful to take public transportation (metro if available, then buses) and walk, when possible. I think that is just true everywhere.

Interestingly, I'm reading a Modiano novel right now, what a coincidence (La Petite Bijou). The locations are on the opposite sides of Paris, I don't think you can tell that from the book, but you could with a map (Vincennes vs. Neuilly, as well as around place Clichy). And some are around Gare de Lyon and the 11th arr. You may not want to go out to Neilly, if that's one of the books you are interested in. But part of the book is exactly about how she gets to these places by metro, so that would be part of the experience of the book. I don't know what are in his others books, though.

nytraveler

Sorry but you are allowing yourself only 1/2 day in Venice and I simply wouldn't bother - since it is packed with tourists in the center of the day due to massive number of tour groups. It si much better morning and evening when the day tourists are elsewhere.

I would give yourself one more day in rome instead - since it seems you have o ides of the huge number of sights there - from etruscan Rome, ancient Rome through early Christian Rome though the Renaissance and on to the modern day. Just the Coliseum and the Roman Forum will take the best part of a day. (I am alway amazed that they had an almost modern city with multi-story apartment houses, indoor plumbing, public baths, enormous public works including aquaducts bring water to the city and a complete underground sewer system (there are still manhole covers marked with SPQR- the Senate and People of Rome). And the religious/government center remains at the the Forum are incredible, as well as the palace of the emperors.

RM67

The itinerary Sassafrass gave you was a pretty decent one if you are resolute on visiting that many cities and I think a bit more realistic/doable than your own.

My take on your own schedule is not enough time in Venice and too many day trips out of Paris after you've already been travelling around a fair bit.

Sassafrass

Find a way to give yourself at least one full day in Venice or skip it, and add the day to Rome or Florence. Both are rich in art treasures. You must have two nights in Venice to have a full day.

Agree that other places will be better for your art interests than Luca. I mentioned it only because it is close to Pisa, so an easy visit. Now, knowing your interest in art, more time in Florence seems better.

PalenQ

2. Within Italy, what's the best way to travel between the cities (Rome, Pisa, Florence, Venice)? I have heard about train travel. But I believe bus travel gives you a different perspective. So what about bus travels within Italy?>

No buses are not viable except for where trains don't go - like to those iconic Tuscan hill towns. Italy has one of themost modern rail systems in the world now with trains routinely blowing along at speeds of 160 mph or more on main lines - buses if existed on long-distance routes would take 2-3 times or more as long and trains to me are always more comfy than buses - especially Italy's modern comfy high-speed trains.

For lots of great info on Italian trains: www.seat61.com - good advice on how to get discounted tickets; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

again I doubt if buses even run between those cities you mention - they mainly run where trains do not. If you want to tour Italy by bus it would mean a group tour or sporadic Eurolines inter-city bus service that typically drops you off on the edges of the city on autoroute exits IME.

janisj

nikhilsharma: Your new plan is much better - with the exception of the Venice portion. You will have NO time at all in the city. To see even a tiny bit of Venice you would need to stay two nights - which would give you a little less than 1.5 days to see/do.

Venice is not a place you can see 'fast'. One has to take boats and/or walk everywhere so in your half a day you really won't see much/anything.

So - either add a night or two to Venice, or drop it and add the time to Rome.

PalenQ

Even one day in Venice is precious - yes spend more time if you can but do not throw the baby out with the bath water - Venice is a visual feast that can be savored in just a day - it's the overall serenity and beauty of the place - but to throw Venice out completely if you dcan't stay 2 days to me is a poor decision - spent two nights yes but in one day you can as you say see the canals and ride a gondola - and if you take an overnight train Venice to Paris then you could stay the whole next day (www.thello.com) - but do not throw Venice out even if you can stay only one day - who knows you may never get back to Italy.

nytraveler

Yes, but the OP has only 1/2 a day (one night) in Venice. If they can find a way to get a full day (2 nights) would be wonderful - but doesn't seem possible in this mad whirl.

And agree that buses are not an option. Not only do they not cover many of the routes needed - they are MUCH slower - making way more travel time and way less sightseeing time in a VERY tight schedule.