Welcome to Fodors sandeep1967. You wouldn't know this since you are brand new, but in the last month there have been several new South Asian members who have ALL posted similarly bad plans. Must be something in the Indian water (kidding)

Sorry -but this plan is pretty bad. You have eleven MAJOR destinations spread over a huge part of western Europe . . .in 22 days. You will be spending more time and money moving around than you will actually seeing anything. I'd cut the destinations nearly in half and start over.

---> Must be something in the Indian water<---------
Hey Janisj, watch ur language buddy

Everyone planning's like that bcz here each & every tour operator offer us a package like 7 countries in 8 days & Complete europe in 20 Days...........So try to understand the logic without using harsh language....

if u want to see water,drop ur self in Mumbai we will show u type of water(Kidding)

Hi Sandeep,

from ur planning ,Its seems u like a Bag-packers........

I think u can visit 3 countries in 20 days with all the fun,Try to work out again & U have not mentioned the month of ur travel bcz weather does matter a lot

wow, what a welcome to the forum.

am on this forum to get views, thanks.

Bhavin,am travelling in May next year.

if were to cut destinations, would avoid spain. cant reduce anymore.

alternate

Region/city Day
rome 1-4
pisa/florence 5-7
venice 8-9
zurich 11-13
lucrene 13-15
interlaken 16-18
dijon 19-20
Paris 20-22

Hi,

I would stay at least 4 days in Paris.

Lily

(Before taking too much advice from your fellow countryman Bhavin_Trivedi, maybe look at his own thread and see another very hectic plan)

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/seeking-help-for-honeymoon-in-europe-from-10th-feb-to-22nd-feb-2013.cfm

Your new plan is a little better. But there are still eight destinations in 22days. No accounting for jet lag, travel time/hassles, etc. Is there a reason you need to squeeze in so many places?

thanks,

do not know when we would be able to comeback, and thus want to do must see.

do you have any sugesstions?

Thanks janisj for noting again but I hv changed my plan few weeks back for 15N/16D(8 Days in Italy,4 Days in Swiss &3D in Paris)

I know Sandeep, we want to cover everything but once u closer to finalize,U will realize what will be a better options

Just for your handy information go through below link for itineraries, Note these r for the Group if u want to travel alone u hv to customize....

10 days European Jewels - http://www.cosmosvacations.in/tour_details.aspx?year=2012&tourcode=4601&brand=Cosmos&menu=overview

12 days Wonders of Europe - http://www.cosmosvacations.in/tour_details.aspx?year=2012&tourcode=5121&brand=Cosmos&menu=overview

any sugesstions, others

for such a wide-ranging trip I'd hop on the trains - trains are much faster than driving in those countries and you have a rather hurried itinerary - two days in each city really means one day as it may take a day of train travel to get between some of those bases - anyway for lots of great info on trains check out these IMO fantastic sources - www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com. And if doing all that strongly consider some kind of railpass - a 21-conseutive-day Global Eurilpass would cover all train travel and give you first class travel - which has many advantages IME - especially for folks hauling luggage around - lots more room to easily stow it in first class than in an often much more crowded 2nd class.

Ok paleness,

What are the cities or locations that you would suggest?

Would request for some suggestions
On 20 days France, Italy and swiss

With 20 days I would pick 4-5 locations (not countries). That will give you enough time to actually see the sites in these places rather than just arrive and turn around and leave again spending most of your valuable vacation time/money in transit.

I would do:

Arrive in Rome - day 1 (likely half a day once you get to your hotel etc)
Rome - day 2
Rome - day 3
Rome - day 4
Train Rome - Florence - day 5 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Florence - day 5
Florence - day 6 (day trip to Pisa)
Florence - day 7
Train Florence to Venice - day 8 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Venice - day 9
Venice - day 10
Venice to Switzerland - day 11 (I dont know Switzerland so hopefully someone can jump in here)
Switzerland - day 12
Switzerland - day 13
Switzerland - day 14
Switzerland - day 15
Train/fly to Paris (- day 16likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Paris - day 17
Paris - day 18
Paris - day 19
Fly home from Paris - day 20

I hope this helps!

Oops had an extra day in there - here is what I would do.

Arrive in Rome - day 1 (likely half a day once you get to your hotel etc)
Rome - day 2
Rome - day 3
Rome - day 4
Train Rome - Florence - day 5 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Florence - day 6 (day trip to Pisa)
Florence - day 7
Train Florence to Venice - day 8 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Venice - day 9
Venice - day 10
Venice to Switzerland - day 11 (I dont know Switzerland so hopefully someone can jump in here)
Switzerland - day 12
Switzerland - day 13
Switzerland - day 14
Switzerland - day 15
Train/fly to Paris - day 16 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Paris - day 17
Paris - day 18
Paris - day 19
Fly home from Paris - day 20

If you are not very interested in museums, skip Spain and Florence. You certainly don't need 3 nights there. You can see the city en route to Venice from Rome by sticking your luggage in the train station. I also think you are spending too much time in Switzerland unless you plan to go skiing. Much of what you want to see can be seen on a scenic train ride.

A lot of Americans, when they go to Asia, plan similar trips for the same reason: They doubt they will ever want to take the long plane flight again, and they want to see as much as they can. Must be something in the Coca Cola. I wouldn't take this cultural tone deafness seriously.

Oops - I have an extra day in there - this is what I meant:

Arrive in Rome - day 1 (likely half a day once you get to your hotel etc)
Rome - day 2
Rome - day 3
Rome - day 4
Train Rome - Florence - day 5 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Florence - day 6 (day trip to Pisa)
Florence - day 7
Train Florence to Venice - day 8 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Venice - day 9
Venice - day 10
Venice to Switzerland - day 11 (I dont know Switzerland so hopefully someone can jump in here)
Switzerland - day 12
Switzerland - day 13
Switzerland - day 14
Switzerland - day 15
Train/fly to Paris - day 16 (likely half a day of sightseeing once you get to your hotel etc)
Paris - day 17
Paris - day 18
Paris - day 19
Fly home from Paris - day 20

Actually I thought janis' response was quite gentle.

You really can't use a bus tour itinerary as a model for independent traveling. It's not the same thing. On a bus they can take you by many sights -- not to, just driving by. And, of course you don't need to deal with the details of transportation and hotels. OTOH you only get to go where the tour goes and only stay a long as the tour does.

Traveling by yourself, you have decide where you want to go and how to get there. You have to select hotels and make bookings. You have to buy train tickets, admission tickets, etc. You have to get yourselves from the airport to the hotel and from the hotel to the train station. You can choose which sights to see and how long to stay there. But you'll probably need to spend a bit of time beforehand researching destinations and the sights to see, to decide what you really want to see.

Most Fodorites prefer independent travel and love to do the research.

OK, I rewrote your latest itinerary:

rome 1-4
pisa/florence 5-7
venice 8-10
interlaken 11-14
lucerne 15-18
Paris 17-22

But it really needs to be rewritten as follows

Day 1 Fly into Rome: 5 nights/4 days

Day 6 Train to Florence: 3 nights/2 days
Daytrip by train to Pisa

Day 9 Train to Venice: 3 nights/2 days

Day 12 Train to Interlaken: 3 nights/2 days

Day 15 Train to Lucerne: 3 nights/2 days

Day 18 Train to Paris: 4 nights/3 days
(or train to Zurich Airport, fly to Paris)

Day 22 Fly home

The train trips Venice to Interlaken and Lucerne to Paris are fairly long and require at least one change of trains. Hence my suggestion to fly the second leg.

Note that May is not the best time to see Switzerland. It's off-season, between snow season and summer season. Some lifts are closed for maintenance; other sight-seeing options are not available.

If you have 22 days I would add a day to Rome and a day to Paris in my itinerary above.

"I wouldn't take this cultural tone deafness seriously."

I am definitely not 'culturally tone deaf'. Whether one is British and wants to see all of California in 6 days, South Asian and all of Western Europe in 20 days, or American and Thailand/Cambodia/Laos in 10 days - there is the misconception that "They doubt they will ever want to take the long plane flight again, and they want to see as much as they can."

The more one moves around the less time one has to actually see and do things. So if one simply wants to tick sites off a list - take a group tour. They will handle the luggage, handle the hassles, and get you to all those places if not 'see' all of them.

But to spend all that time and money to travel from India to Europe - only to spend half your time and budget touring train stations and airports seems a REAL waste.

jamikins and Mimar have given you good options to work with.

alternate

Region/city Day
rome 1-4
pisa/florence 5-7
venice 8-9
zurich 11-13
lucrene 13-15
interlaken 16-18
dijon 19-20
Paris 20-22>

I disagree that this itinerary is too hurried as it is something like I do all the time and I, like Janisj, an not 'culturally tone deaf' - yet I find my culture not just in major churches or museums but also on the train and in train stations as well.

Tired of folks who think one type of 'culture' is better than another and who say you must spend a week in each place or it is a waste of money - each to his own.

Sheesh PQ (!) - ". . . who say you must spend a week in each place or it is a waste of money -

Who said anything about staying a week anywhere??

And yes, some are train 'geeks' like you and enjoy the train travel as much or more than being places. Only the OP knows if he/his family fit that description. If they don't - this could be an expensive and disappointing holiday.

and IF they do...

The OP is planning 22 days in Europe and doesn't like museums. Maybe they can follow PalenQs itinerary and see lots from train windows. However, if scenic beauty is the goal, they are spending time in a lot of cities. Consider, in addition to Switzerland, spending time in the Tuscan countryside instead of Florence. (It pains me to say that as, after Paris, Florence is my favorite city in Europe.)

If you want to move at the speed and itinerary of an organized tour group, then I'd join an organized tour group. Not try to imitate their agenda on your own.

It is practically impossible for independent travelers to cover the same number of places at the same speed as a tour. The tour can do it because they know the ground intimately, have buses/drivers that can cover the ground at high speeds while the tour members stare out the windows - and they can make advance arrangements for entrances.

People traveling independently will typically take much more time - and usually do not want to spend 6 or 7 hours per days just sitting ona train most days.

If you want to just ckeck items off on a list - and spend most of your time in transit (anda lot of money on trains) do the trip as you have planned.

If you really want to see any of europe (not necessarily museums - but churches, castles, countryside or whatever - you need to allow time to do so. The itinerary you have planned won;t do that. In 22 days I would do 4 places - with some day trips to the countryside - assuming you are traveling between late April and October The rest of the year the countryside doesn't look like much in most places due to winter weather - no flower or leaves on trees.

But - it's you money. I just think you should look into this in more detail before you spend an awful lot of money seeing practically nothing.

Amalfi cost(Itly) & Nice(Paris),also place to include in ur itineraries!!!

I agree rather than adding the OP needs to subtract a few places from itinerary - Zurich and Dijon could be dropped to spread more time in cities where OP has little time - like 2 days in Dijon could be dropped and added to Paris or Italy.

Dijon itself is just another nice French regional town - perhaps you are going to Beaune and the Burgundy wine country but Dijon itself for two days would be a day too much for the average traveler IMO.

There is some very good advice above and I think sandeep1967 you need to really chose where you and the girls want to be. The original plan is too much for me so I went back to it to see how it looks if you take the museum/art galleries out and forcus on the visual appearance walking about, taking cable cars and trams, walking in parks and such


Region/city Day, score out of 10
madrid 6
Barcelona 10
nice/ 6
Avignon 8
Pisa/ 8
Florence 8
Rome 10
Venice 12
Zurich 2
lucrene 6
Interlaken 6
Dijon 2
Paris 8

Then I tried to add in some of the other's proposals in the same score
Amalfi Coast 9
Beaune 7
Nice 2
And then my own thoughts
Sienna 10
Geneva 6
Prague 8


Based on that scoring you really want to drop out Dijon and Zurich.

Generally I'd try and take trains to get to most of these places. How often you move is up to you but assume you will lose at least half the day if not more in every move and you will get to see lots of countryside rushing by.

bilboburgler ,What about Bologna near florance(Italy).

Whats ur rating for this place???

Well me rating for Bologna is superb - way underrated city often not included in Italian itineraries it seems - said to have the most historic ancient buildings of any Italian city in its city center - i loved Bologna - simply loved it. Could be a day trip from Florence as I did it.

I'm not sure about Bologna, I think Ferrara (just to the north of B but with walls, a castle, cathedral, parks, little shops and loads of bikes) would score a 7 or an 8. I'm told Bologna is like a big Ferrara, but without the "gem" like property.

Can only agree that you are trying to do too many places. And if you really want to see natural beauty - why are you spending all of your time in cities instead of touring the countryside?

Don't misunderstand me, we spend a lot of time in cities -b tu we love cities and want to see every museum, cathedral and art gallery that there is.

If you really want countryside I suggest you spend more time in the Swiss mountains, the countryside and small villages of the riviera or tuscany and the beautiful lakes of northern Italy.

That would easily take your entire trip - with cities just for landing and departure.