maggiec

Thanks to all of you who provided such fantastic input on my draft itinerary about a month ago. We've incorporated your great ideas and have come up with an itinerary and some daily activities and would love additional input.

Briefly, here's some information about my husband and me: We love to hike and bike and believe in "less is more" when we travel. We like to "dive deep" into an area versus moving fast. We spent two weeks in Switzerland in 2001 and hit many of the typical highlights (i.e., Lauterbrunnen Valley, Lucerne, Lugano, Zermatt and Gstaad). We'd like to target mostly new destinations within Switzerland. We also plan on renting a car for most of our time in Switzerland but will utilize the local trains and post buses if we need them to complete a hiking loop.

18 Nights - Tuesday, July 22 – Saturday, August 9, 2014

1 night- Basel hotel near airport (we arrive at 10 p.m.)
- pick up rental car Wednesday a.m. and explore the southern Emmental area around Langnau on the way to Bern
2 nights – Bern (full day exploration of Bern and rent bikes)
1 night – Outside of Interlaken - hike the Schynige Platte
3 nights – Ascona
- Explore village of Sonogno and hike Valle Verasca
- Train to Intragna in the Centovalli and hike to Rasa
1 night – Soglio in the Bregaglia valley (or stay 5 nights instead in Sils?)
4 nights in Upper Engadine Valley – Leaning towards Sils (is that the same as Sils-Maria?)or possibly Celerina
- Hike part of the Via Panoramica Val Bregaglia perhaps from Röivan to Soglio
- Another possibility - walk from Soglio to Castasegna and then through Bondo to Promontogno (we may need to skip this walk due to time)
- Walk along the lakes near Sils to Silva Plana (I remember someone raving about this but I can’t find details)
- Hike Muottas Muragl to Alp Langual
- Take scenic regional train ride to Poschiavo???
- On the way to Upper Engadine Valley, drive scenic route through Mustair Valley and visit Convent of St. John
4 nights – Lower Engadine Valley - Tarasp
- stay at Schlosshotel Chaste
- Hike to the village of Vna and Hof Zuort
- Bus to Sent and walk back to Scuol
- Walk from Guarda to Ardez
- Visit Schloss Tarasp,
2 nights in Basel

Questions:
1) From Basel to Bern: Is there a good hike in the Langnau/Emmental area?
2) I’m not sure about the Schynige Platte. We stayed 5 days in Lauterbrunnen and a few days in Grindlewald years ago and I’m looking for one night in the Berner Oberland on our way to Ascona from Bern just to be able to enjoy the scenery unique to that area for one night. I’d like to incorporate a hike but I don’t really want to stay in the heart of Interlaken. I have the most questions about this night. Thoughts?
3) Is it worth it to hike in the Swiss National Park on our way to the Convent of St. John and the Mustair Valley?
4) It looks like we’ll be heading south through the Gotthard Tunnel to Ascona on a Saturday. Is this going to be challenging with traffic? I also heard that driving through the Grimsel and Furka Passes is beautiful. Are we crazy to do it? Via Michelin says the most direct way would take 3 hours and going through the Grimsel and Furka Passes would take just under 3 ½ hours.
5) Depending if we stay in Soglio or Sils (maybe skip Soglio and stay in Sils for five nights?) is it worth the scenic drive from Ascona along Lake Como through the Bregaglia Valley or go the more direct route. It looks like we would be travelling on a Tuesday. Or maybe 4 nights in Sils and 5 nights in Tarasp....
6) Kja – I noted that you did the following while in Ascona – any tips or highlights?: "Enjoy the views from Cimetta, hike from Lavertezzo to Brione in the Valle Verzasca; take the train through the Centovalli as far as Verdasio and roam around Rasa." You also did the hike from Soglio to Castasegna and then through Bondo to Promontogno – worth it?
7) Any other great hiking leads? How about favorite hotels for our destinations?
8) Other input on our itinerary?

Ingo

1) From Basel to Bern better drive via scenic roads, not the motorways N2/N1, and stop along the way at viewpoints and in picturesque small towns. For example, I drove road #12 through the Jura mountains via Ober Hauenstein pass - scenic, some castles (ruins) along the way e.g. Neu-Falkenstein and Alt-Falkenstein. Picturesque small towns that you'll pass are Liestal, Waldenburg, Wiedlisbach, Wangen ...

To get to Emmental you will drive via Burgdorf, which is well worth seeing, too. I doubt you'll have enough time for a hike in the Emmental. And there will be other areas later on your trip that offer plenty of hiking options.

2) Why not staying another night in Bern and do the excursion to Schynige Platte and the hike from there? It's not that far, and changing hotels will take too much time IMO.

3) I guess you plan the excursion to Müstair valley and convent St. John on the way from Upper to Lower Engadine valley, not from Ticino to Upper Engadine valley, right? The Swiss National Park is nice for hiking, but the scenery in the Upper Engadine valley is more spectacular (with glaciers and lakes), and since you're planning hikes in the Lower Engadine valley as well I wouldn't bother with hiking in the National Park. On the drive from Pass dal Fuorn/Ofen pass down to Müstair I recommend to take the minor road through the villages Tschierv and Fuldava instead of the main road, though - they are cute and it only takes five minutes longer.

Btw, did you consider driving from Müstair via Italy and Austria to the Lower Engadine? Very scenic, and with lots of sights along the way.

4) I drove via Susten and Gotthard passes once, and once via Grimsel and Nufenen passes. Both options are *way* nicer than the drive on the motorway and through the Gotthard tunnel. The most scenic drive would be via Grimsel, Furka and Gotthard passes - but that really takes a bit too long IMO. If the weather is nice I highly recommend driving over any of the passes, not through the tunnel. I also feel uncomfortable driving through such long tunnels, btw, it's claustrophobic.

5) If you're not opposed to one-nighters, then stay one night in Soglio. Get a room with view of the mountains across the valley. Simply magical (if the weather co-operates ). Then 4 nights in Sils and 4 nights in Tarasp. Sils has two parts, btw, one is Sils-Maria and the other is Sils-Baselgia. The latter is next to the main road in the Engadine, the other on the opposite side of the valley and the main place with more hotels, restaurants, little square etc.

7) 4 nights in the Upper Engadine means three full days. Since you have already seen Soglio enroute from Ticino, I wouldn't bother going back, no matter how rewarding the hikes are there. Suggestions for the three full days in Sils:
- Hike Muottas Muragl - Alp Languard (if you're an experienced hiker via Segantini hut, if not then the easier, flat route)
- cable car up to Furtschellas, hike via Marmore to Hotel Fex, back to Sils-Maria (again, if you're an experienced hiker take the upper route via Lake Sgrischus and P. Chuern, otherwise the lower route.)
- excursion by regional train to Poschiavo. Stop along the way at Diavolezza, cable car up and down.

You'll have three full days in the Lower Engadine, too. My suggestions:
- Bus to Sent, hike via Val Sinestra hotel to Hof Zuort and further to Vna, bus back to Tarasp.
- Train/bus to Guarda, hike via Ardez down to Inn river and up to Tarasp.
- visit castle Tarasp, hike via Avrona and Clemgia river gorge to Scuol, explore this small town with church, museum, picturesque squares, drink from the several mineral fountains, visit the spa, buy/taste some local specialties like dried meat (Bündnerfleisch), Salsiz (sort of Salami), regional cheese ...

maggiec

Ingo - I was hoping you would reply. Thanks for all the wonderful, detailed ideas. The scenic drive from Basel to Bern sound perfect. I love your suggestions for villages to visit.

I'll think about staying another night in Bern and going to Schynige Platte as a day trip. Alternatively, does anyone have a hotel idea for Widersil? I saw a recommendation for Alpenblick in Widersil but don't see any ratings on Trip Advisor.

On our way from Lower to Upper Engadine Valley through Mustair we are targeting the drive through the Ofenpass, to Mustair and then into Italy and stopping at the walled town of Glurns. "Schuler" also recommended that on a previous post.

We'll take your recommendation to skip the Furka Pass and skipping the Gotthard Tunnel and going over one of the other passes. Thanks!

I think we will stay in Soglio for one night and I love all of your hiking/day excursion ideas for Upper and Lower Engadine.

On to hotel planning!

Ingo

Glad to hear I could be of some help

The Alpenblick in Wilderswil is a very good, charming hotel with excellent food. Have stayed there and loved it. You might want to ask for a renovated room, though. See reviews on TA here:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...n_of_Bern.html

Yep, I recall that Schuler raved about Glurns - I second the recommendation. If there's enought time, consider a stop in Mals or Burgeis, too (maybe with a short visit of convent Marienberg), and make sure to stop by the lake in Graun to see the church steepl IN the lake

dulciusexasperis

In keeping with 'less is more', I see a bit too much moving and 1 day here or there. That's a contradiction to me.

I understand staying the night in Basel given your late arrival but don't see any reason to stay 2 nights on the way back. What time is your flight out of Basel to home?

If you want some time in Basel, I'd do it at the beginning and save moving. As I read it you are moving hotel 7 times in 18 days. That is not 'less is more'.

Bern to Ascona for example is a 3 hour drive. So there is no need for an overnight stop at all. Stopping just to hike Schynige Platte is not worth complicating things for and adding an overnight in my opinion.

If you want to do a hike in that area I would suggest hiking from Grindelwald (where you can leave your car parked) to Faulhorn. Stay overnight(taking only a small pack) at the Hotel Faulhorn which is the highest and oldest mountain hotel in Switzerland and somewhat unique. Then hike down to the Hotel Giessbach the following day and take the ferry from their dock back to Interlaken and the train back up to Grindelwald. That's a hike.

So for example I would stay 3 nights in Basel (if that's what you want) and then early on day 3, drive directly to Grindelwald and hike to Faulhorn for the night. Return to Grindelwald and stay night 5 and 6 while doing a day trip to Bern. It's a 1 hour drive.

So you've done Basel, Bern and Grindelwald with only 1 real move. I don't count the night at Faulhorn as a move since you just take what you need for the night in your hiking pack and leave the rest in your car.

From Grindelwald you can then drive to Ascona via the Gotthard. It's a 3 hour drive. You'll be there for lunch if you want to drive straight through.

Spend your night 7-10 (4 nights) in Ascona.

Nights 11-14 in Upper Engadine and nights 15-18 in the Lower Engadine. The drive from Tarasp to Basel airport takes 3.5 hours. If you have an afternoon flight to catch that is no problem at all.

That's only 4 moves of hotel (not counting Faulhorn) and then a return to Basel. Less is more.

dulciusexasperis

Meant to add links.

http://www.berghotel-faulhorn.ch/index_eng.html

http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-ca/m...-faulhorn.html

In Ascona I suggest the Hotel Tamaro. I see no point in staying in Ascona if you don't stay on the promenade.
http://www.hoteltamaroascona.com/en

maggiec

Ingo - thanks for the vote of confidence about Hotel Alpenblick.

Dulciusexasperis - You've given me lots of food for thought. I think my "less is more" philosophy is getting challenged by my being seduced about adding a hike/overnight in the Interlaken area. Fyi, the reason for Basel is twofold - we'll be arriving in Basel late in the evening on an EasyJet flight from Amsterdam; hence the plan to stay near the airport and pick up rental car the next morning. We're then meeting family back in Basel at the end of the trip so that portion isn't negotiable - plus, although not necessarily the first rung of tourist attractions in Switzerland, we are very excited to explore the art museums and galleries in Basel.

You've given me a lot to think about in terms of hiking. Although attractive, I'm not sure I'm up for the simple accomodation at Hotel Faullhorn but I love the idea of the hike from First to Faulhorn. How does Hotel Giessbach fit in? Isn't that in Brienz? The loop sounds very intriguing.

So.... if we're up for a big hike, we could do the cable car to First and then Faulhorn and loop from there or we could do Schynige Platte to Faulhorn and First. I'm a bit intimidated about a 1000 metre/3000 foot downhill hike however. Anyone have thoughts on those hikes and how doable they are and where they've based themselves?

Ingo

Your nights in Basel sound reasonable to me. I am a big fan of this (small-ish) city. The museums are world-class, the churches and other architectural sights outstanding. Don't miss a ferry crossing with one of the cute little ferries.

I'm torn on the hiking options in Bernese Oberland. First off, you can do this without changing hotels, just add another night in Bern.

On the other hand, if you stay overnight in Wilderswil e.g. you could hike from Schynige Platte to Bussalp or, if you're off to a really early start and don't mind long hikes, even via Faulhorn to First (really long!). Back by bus (from Bussalp) or gondola (from First) to Grindelwald, train back to Wilderswil. Next day off to Ticino.

Please note that the accommodation at Faulhorn hotel is really basic. Shared bathroom, of course. Also, it's at an elevation of 2680 m - too high for me to sleep well (many people are not affected, though.) If hiking down the next day to Hotel Giessbach/Lake Brienz (which is very nice, no question) you're facing a 2000 metre/6000 ft. downhill hike. VERY challenging for your knees!

maggiec

Thanks Ingo. My knees would not survive a 2000 metre downhill hike! Do you have a link that could give me the description of the hike from Schynige Platte to Bussalp? It looks like we could bus back from there to Widersil?

Wekiva

I'm no expert on Switzerland but did just hike Schynige Platte a few years ago. That was one of the most incredible hikes I've ever taken. Walking along the ridge with the lakes on one side and the mountain on the other was awe inspiring. We were even able to slip in a geocache on the hike. It's near the large rock outcropping that you can climb up with stairs. Have fun!

maggiec

Thanks Wekiva - what part of Schynige Platte did you hike?

Ingo

maggie, I just noticed you might be better off ending your hike at First instead of Bussalp. The hike is a little longer, but less downhill at the end. You would take the gondola down to Grindelwald then, train back to Wilderswil.

Here's a description in English:
http://www.jungfrau.ch/en/sommer/tou...aulhorn-first/

maggiec

Ingo, Is there a way to do the hike from Schynige Platte to First via Lake Bachalpsee and skip the summit to Fulhorn?

I'm also tempted by the Panoramic Weg from Mannliche to Kleine Scheidigg as a loop from Grindlewald to Wengen or reverse. Do you have a recommendation which way to go?

Thank you so much! I think we need more time!!!!!

Ingo

Nope, you have to go via Faulhorn.

The hiking trail Männlichen - Kleine Scheidegg is probably the most famous and most crowded in the area. Have done this a couple of times in different variations. For me the Wengen side of the mountain ridge is more scenic. I'd take the cog-train to Wengen, cable car to Männlichen, then walk the 15 minutes to Männlichen summit (best views from there), then hike to Kleine Scheidegg. Once I continued with the excursion to Jungfraujoch (but really only once), other times I hiked down to Grindelwald (actually to Alpiglen only, then took the cog-train to Grindelwald), or I hiked down to Wengen - as said before, more scenic IMO. Hiking down to either village takes quite a while, though, and is also challenging for your knees, to be honest. The good thing is you can hop on the cog-train if you've had enough

dulciusexasperis

No, you do not have to summit the Faulhorn, you can just walk on by. But the amount of elevation gain you avoid is minimal and so not worth avoiding. So yes, you have to go via Faulhorn.

My bad for over-estimating your hiking abilities maggiec. As you mentioned looking for so many hikes in different areas and seemed enthusiastic, I took it that you were experienced hikers comfortable in the mountains.

I would never suggest to anyone going down from Faulhorn to Giessbach if they were not comfortable with their abilites. The trail from Faulhorn down to Giessbach starts out on a very steep slope indeed and as it is North facing with little sun, I have encountered snow there in June. There is no doubt that a fall in the first hour or so of the descent would probably prove fatal. It's not for the faint of heart. It gets easier as you drop but it is indeed a 2000m descent which is hard on the knees. It's also about a 7-8 hour hike to Giessbach.

Here is a picture showing the west face of Faulhorn. You would approach from the right coming from Schynige. The Hotel is the little bump at the peak. The north face down to Giessbach is the descent to the left.
http://www.summitpost.org/faulhorn/212463

Here is a description of Schynige to First.
http://www.activityworkshop.net/hiki.../faulhorn.html

Here is another. It is a 6 hour hike from Schynige to 'the Ladies Peak' (Faulhorn) and on to First.
http://www.jungfrau.ch/en/sommer/tou...aulhorn-first/

maggiec

Dulcius, no worries - you have been extremely helpful and I love the activityworkshop link above to such a detailed description of the Schynige/First hike. We are avid hikers but "recreational" is an apt descriptor. I think the 1000 metre descent and ascent is probably a good max for us.

As a result of your challenge given our "less is more" philosophy we're going to adjust our itinerary by dropping Ascona (there's always another trip!) and adding more time in the Berner Oberland so thank you very much.

Here's what we're now looking at:

1 night Basel airport hotel
3 nights Bern (day trip to Murten)
3 nights Grindelwald
4 nights Upper Engadine - Tarasp
4 nights Lower Engadine - Sils
1 night Soglio
2 nights Basel

Ingo, if you're still with me, I have some questions for you and anyone else who has ideas:

1) Depending on availability of hotels, we may reverse the order of our itinerary and go to the Graubunden right after arriving in Basel. This would allow us to begin adjusting to the altitude before doing the Schynige Platte/First hike.

Does it matter if we do the Upper or Lower first? Preference for which direction we drive via Italy and the Mustair Valley?

2) Since we won't be driving to the Bregaglia valley from Ticino, I'm wondering about staying in Soglio 2 nights and Sils 3 nights. I'm also having a hard time letting go of the idea of hiking the Panoramica Val Bregaglia trail from Röivan to Soglio. Do you have ideas of how to incorporate that or is the hike up to Furtschellas and to Hotel Fex and back to Sils-Maria just as beautiful?

3) Do we get an Italian "flavor" in Sils as we will in Soglio?

3) Romantik Hotel Margna is in Sils near the road and not the village - it looks really nice but I'm not sure about the location. Thoughts?

4)Finally,Via Michelin directs us mostly on motorways to get to or from Interlaken to Graubunden (up to Luzern and then towards Chur). There's a longer route straight east on the road going through the village of Ilanz. Looks like an hour longer - could be very pretty but maybe too long?

Ingo

First a correction: Tarasp is Lower Engadine, Sils is Upper Engadine. I had wondered earlier about the mix-up in your itinerary, that should clarify it.

1) As for adjusting to the altitude - you do realise that both Lower and Upper Engadine are at higher altitude than the Bernese Oberland, don't you? Tarasp-Chasté is at 1450 m, Sils at 1800 m, Grindelwald at 1050 m. Most relevant for altitude adjustment is where you sleep (in my experience). The drive over the passes in Graubünden will take you at (almost) the same altitudes as the hike Schynige Platte/First, the hike via Segantini hut and the more longer option of the Furtschellas/Fex hike even to higher altitudes.

I personally prefer the direction Tarasp/Lower Engadine - Austria - Italy - Müstair - Sils/Upper Engadine. I think that in general the Upper Engadine has the more spectacular scenery (lakes and glaciers) than the Lower Engadine, and the views on the drive from Tarasp in direction Italy are nicer than in opposite direction (especially Lake Resia, later from Burgeis down to Glurns with P. Ortler and its glacier in the background).

2) Why not staying one more night in Sils and doing the hike on the Panoramic Trail in the Bregaglia valley from there? Staying overnight in Soglio is not *that* exciting, and you'll lose time when changing hotels. I drove from Sils to Casaccia, parked the car, and hiked the Panoramic Trail from there to Soglio. Bus back to Casaccia. Or, even better, do not drive and take an early bus to Casaccia, the bus back (change in Promontogno, coming from Soglio) runs via Sils to St. Moritz (hourly). When reserving a hotel in Sils make sure it offers "public transportation and cable cars AND BERGELL included".

The hikes Panoramic Trail and Furtschellas/Fex are different, but equally beautiful.

3) No. Sils is Engadine style, not Italian flavour. Soglio has sort of an Italian flavour, but not really. It's more the architecture (bare granite stone houses, dark wood, cobbled tiny alleys, Italian language) in Soglio than "la dolce vita", if you know what I mean. If you want more Italianita, you'll get it in Poschiavo (especially if your excursion is on a market day).

The other 3) It's an excellent hotel, location is also good. You cannot go wrong with this one. It's in Sils-Baselgia, not Sils-Maria, but it doesn't really matter. The bus stops in both, the walk from one to the other is less than 10 minutes.

4) I have done the drive via Ilanz. I think you refer to the route Grindelwald - Meiringen - Susten pass - Andermatt - Oberalp pass - Ilanz - Reichenau etc. This one follows the glacier express from Andermatt to Reichenau - very scenic, not too long if you get an early start. Highly recommended on a beautiful day.

maggiec

Ingo, you are awesome. Thank you so much! I wish I could leave tomorrow!

Wekiva

Maggiec - I've been gone for a long weekend and just saw your question. Our hike at Schynige Platte started at the train station and then hiked up to the top of the ridge and then we walked along the ridge to Louchera where we turned back. I'm not exactly sure what Louchera is since it's definitely not a town...maybe more of a farm? If you look at the area on Google Earth (not google maps) you will see it. Make sure the Borders and Labels layer is turned on. The entire loop was 3 or 4 hours but it included a lunch break (where kids played a while) and Geocaching which slowed us down.

I would HIGHLY recommend Google Earth on a decent computer with all the settings turned up in planning your trip. Make sure 3D terrain is turned on (although I don't think you can turn it off any more). For hiking planning I found Google Earth invaluable in understanding what I was getting into. Nothing can compare (unless you're REALLY good at reading topo maps). It's a great way to see the birds eye view which helped me a lot with planning.

Wekiva

If I haven't screwed this up the link below shows you the way this area looks on Google Earth:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...nigePlatte.jpg