mirai

My brother and I recently completed a trip to Edinburgh (4.5 days) and London (8.5 days). We greatly enjoyed London's iconic attractions (the British Museum is a marvel) - but I was completely beguiled by Edinburgh. Elegant New Town, the busy crowds and sights on the Royal Mile, tranquil Loch Lomond, Stirling Castle, intriguing Gilmerton Cove, Calton Hill, and of course the friendly Scots - as the title says, I fell in love with Edinburgh and Scotland.

After 2 days in Edinburgh, I knew I'd be returning with my husband, who, always amiable in travel matters, is happy to let me select the where and when and how long. I'm hoping a 3-week return visit next spring is in the cards and am beginning to look into various Scottish bases from which to explore the immediate area and do day trips over 4-5 nights.

While Edinburgh will of course be one base, I would love suggestions for other good bases in order to jumpstart and refine my research. My considerations are:

- sites of interest both in the town/city we'll be staying in as well as worthwhile explorations in the surrounding area to undertake as day trips.
- what we're after: characterful cities/towns, natural landscapes and scenery, castles or churches or other ancient structures...i.e. what almost every tourist aims for.
- we won't rent a car to get around as I'm not willing to tackle driving "on the other side" while in the UK. That leaves getting from one base to the next via either bus or train (maybe plane?).
- as of now, I'm aiming to build in time in York for 3 nights and Wales for 4-5 nights. The sequencing of bases is up in the air for now. I may also drop both York and Wales if my research and your suggestions lead me to decide to spend the whole trip in Scotland.

Many thanks in advance,

mirai

dotheboyshall

Western Isles, Orkney, Shetland but you really need a car for all of them

eastenderusvi

IMHO, you need a car to see Scotland and Wales. However,if not, check out the Isle of Arran- great bus service once you get there by ferry, Machrie Moor for ancient structures, bicycling and hiking, hills and green pastures, whisky, ale...

janisj

You can see a a fair amount sans car but to get to the best bits mostly requires driving. Driving in rural parts of Scotland is not at all difficult. No need to drive in any city - but there aren't many cities in Scotland

There are terrific one to five day small group tours (16 or fewer passengers) through Rabbies rabbies.com which would let see rural bits -- but honestly driving would be best.

SusanM

So glad to hear you loved Edinburgh. I'm headed there for my first-ever solo trip in September. I can't wait! So far, I have a walking tour planned for my first full day there, to orient myself a bit. I booked a pub crawl tour for the Saturday night because I don't think I'd want to go to a bunch of bars alone. And I have a day trip to the Highlands planned with Rabbies. Is it September yet?!?

Gardyloo

As usual, I agree verbatim with Janis. I understand the hesitancy to drive on the "wrong" side of the road, but remember thousands and thousands of overseas visitors do it every day, with nary a body bag required ;-).

Make it easy on yourself by getting a car with an automatic transmission, and when you rent it (for example at Edinburgh airport) find a nearby empty parking lot to practice for a few minutes (where's the left front t(i/y)re, where are the damned mirrors?) You'll be surprised how easy and natural it feels after a very short time. Driving on motorways is easy, as is driving on "single track" country roads in the Highlands. (They're only wide enough for one car at a time, but there are turnout passing places every few hundred yards.) You might also want to watch a few Youtube videos (like this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuqlfM-MX7g ) to get an idea of how to negotiate roundabouts, which can be off-putting for first-timers.

It's really not that hard, and having a car will infinitely expand your choices, all of them terrific.

If you're considering time in the north of England before or after Scotland, I'd strongly urge you to include a stop in Durham as well as (or in lieu of) York. Durham is less touristy and crowded than York, and Durham Cathedral gets my vote for one of the most impressive buildings in all of Europe, never mind the UK. The cathedral, adjacent castle, and medieval old town that runs down the hill from both, are flat out gorgeous.

mirai

I’m not the keenest driver even at home but if there won’t be too much city driving in Scotland, I’m more open to the idea. Checking out Youtube videos for pointers – great idea. I’m on it.

Maybe a silly question – is travelling by motorbike practical? It would be a slower mode of travel but I could give the keys up to my husband, who’s used to motorbiking on the other side of the road. He doesn’t have a car license though.

During our trip last month, my brother and I booked a Loch Lomond/Stirling Castle day trip with Rabbie’s and the driver-guide was great, especially with all the historical, social and political commentary (he touched on Brexit, the issue of land rights in Scotland, and also alerted us to the possibility of topless Scotsmen walking around that very hot day). But I did find I wanted to spend more time in some places and less in others. Such are the tradeoffs between having someone else do the driving and giving up control of scheduling. Will give this more thought.

The Rabbie’s 4-day tour to Mull and Iona might fit the bill, as it would allow us to put down roots for 3 nights in Tobermory (I prefer not to check in/out every 1-2 days) while driving through a good part of the West Highlands. Or we may copy their itinerary and make our own way.

dotheboyshall, eastenderusvi, janisj, gardyloo – Thank you all kindly for your many different suggestions (also pleased to hear about Durham) – I've made note of them and will happily embark on more research.

Gardyloo

A motorbike would be okay, but Scotland in the spring can mean wet conditions, not ideal for that option.

mirai

SusanM – you have a treat in store for sure. I am going to put up a post with a few notes from our trip - hope you find it helpful.

PalenQ

As usual, I agree verbatim with Janis and Gradyloo - I've driven large vans throughout the UK (long ago) and even with those (which were left-hand drives) I found no problem adapting to the 'wrong' side of the road.

Now narrow back roads can be a bit unnerving -especially those so narrow there are 'passing places' every once in a while. But even those are fine - just do not revert to a right-side of road driving when you don't have any other traffic -I found myself at first doing that on occasion - again especially on roads with little traffic.

Durham I stayed in and yes it is a gem.

PalenQ

If doing a lot of longer trains - like to York, Wales and Scotland - check out various BritRail Passes -especially if you just like to pop up at the station and board any train.

Scotland has two really scenic rail lines that could fit in with a visit to the Isle of Skye - train to Inverness (Loch Ness- may see Nessie - but not from Interlaken itself) -take the scenic Inverness- Kyle of Lochlash train - and a bus from Kyle to Isle of Skye and buses around there -then head down to a ferry that will take you to Maillag on the mainland and the dramatically scenic West Highlands Railway to Fort William (nice area for Highlands excursions) - Glasgow.

If returning to London you can take Caledonian Sleeper trains.

For lots on British trains check www.seat61.com (great info on discounted tickets that would be cheaper perhaps than a railpass if you can get them all as they are sold in limited numbers on each train - if you do not want complete felxibility - those type fares are astronomical often so a pass with that flexibility can pay off quickly); www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

janisj

>> if there won’t be too much city driving in Scotland, I’m more open to the idea.<<

There should be absolutely NO city driving. The public transport is fabulous in Edinburgh and Glasgow and it is easy to get out to either airport which are the easiest places to pick up a rental car.

>>is travelling by motorbike practical?<<

Not really -- yes people do motorcycle in the UK but it is for hardy souls.

>>The Rabbie’s 4-day tour to Mull and Iona might fit the bill<<

That would be a lovely tour and in the long run might be nearly as cheap as doing it on your own since you wouldn't have the cost of the rental car or taking it on the ferry.

Maybe consider a combo -- Edinburgh (car-less of course), that Rabbies tour, and a few days car rental to explore someplace else (Fife, or the Borders/Northumberland, or Deeside, or wherever). That way you wouldn't have the pressure of doing ALL the driving but just a few days.

docdan1

I heartily concur with the "combo" suggestion. you decision should not be "car/no-car" but rather, many legs of your journey will be easy with bus/rail, and other will simply need one to three day rentals (hires) before actually driving, do a brief trip with a taxi and tell the cabbie what you are planning to drive, and they will offer "tips" on what does and does not work for your proposed routing ( assuming, of course, you can understand the cabbie, who tend to have the most colorful of brogues <wink

I could fill this page with Scotland suggestions, but first may I also suggest, your idea of a few days in Wales is a fine idea I encourage you to develop. WE toured Scotland, Wales, and Ireland last summer and NOrthern Wales was high on our "we-need-to-do-this-again" list. Conwy, Bets-Y-Coed, Bangor, Caerfarnon (with bus) are highly suggested, as they can be easily be reached from Edinburgh via rail, and possibly a variant on this theme is to visit Chester and do day trips from there.

docdan1

My trip report: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...tlandwales.cfm

SusanM

Thanks Mirai, looking forward to your report.

eliztlong

I recently returned from a trip to Edinburgh & the Lake District of England. We used an Absolute Escapes vacation package for Scotland. I highly recommend them. Our hotel the Apex Waterloo Place was excellent and the trip booked through Rabbies was also excellent. No car needed. We took the train to Oxenholme in England and there we did rent a car.

PalenQ

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/tickets/c...it-of-scotland

Scottish Rail, Boat and Bus pass -if doing several of them check it out!

mirai

Absolutely loving all these new ideas you guys are sending my way.

Instead of trying to cram them all into the very next trip, I think I'll partition them out over several trips - as long as the UK doesn't sink into the sea, I can keep returning after all!

janisj, we're on the same wavelength - I was playing with that combo idea as it simplifies things nicely for at least part of what I want to accomplish.

docdan1, I loved your trip report. What great detail. And thanks for validating our interest in Wales.

eliztlong, which tour did you book with Absolute Escapes?

PalenQ, added your suggestions to my now very long list!