JonahG

Hi,
Six of us (parents and 4 children aged 15, 13, 7 and 4) will be flying from JFK to Milan on March 31 2015 and returning on April 12th.

Need some advice from the Fodors gurus about the following questions:

1. How should we divide our time between the top destinations in Italy? (Because of our younger kids, we won't be interested in any nightlife, fashion, Operas etc)
2. What's the best way to travel within Italy? (rent a car, train, combination)
3. If train, then should we buy a pass or pay as we go?
4. Any good places to search for vacation rentals or apartments? We avoid hotels.
5. What's the best way to navigate inside the city? Cab? Bus?

Thanks much!

Jonah G

vincenzo32951

1. What are the "top destinations" in your opinion?
2. Depends on where you're going, but generally the train is best.
3. Again, depends on your itinerary.
4. Vrbo.com is good. You'll see a lot of overlap among sites because a lot of owners advertise on multiple sites.
5. Which city?

Sassafrass

Do you plan on visiting the lakes area? I am guessing not in March. Since you have little interest in Fashion or opera, unless seeing the Last Supper is a must, landing in Milan is not a good idea. Have you already booked those flights? If not, great! Plan your itinerary first, flying into one city you actually want to visit and out of another. Otherwise, you waste a good amount of time getting from Milan to your first real destination and returning to Milan, as well as the money you spend taking the train back and forth. If you have booked tickets already, see if you can cancel, or for a small fee, change it.

Most always, put visits to your departure city at the end, as you need to be near the airport your last night.

In general, trains are best for getting from city center to city center and for day trips out of cities to smaller towns. A car is best for exploration of countryside, wineries, etc.

Venice and Florence are so small you can generally walk everywhere. Rome has a good bus system and a limited subway. There are good options nearly everywhere. The first job is narrowing down your itinerary. Getting places with cities and towns is minor and easy.

Your arrival day will be pretty much a blur from jet lag, so you have 10 full days on the ground. You could start with the big three: Venice, Florence and Rome. With four kids, one rather young, it will take time to get from hotel to train to hotel, so I allowed a wee bit extra.
Land in Venice, 3 nts (arrival 1/2 day plus 2 full days)
Train to Florence 3 nts (1/2 day to travel, 2&1/2 days Florence)
Train to Rome 4 nts (1/3 day of travel, 3&3/4 days Rome.

Perhaps there are other things you would rather do and see: Naples, Capri, Pompeii, the Amalfi Coast, etc. and end in Rome. In that case, you would want to land in Naples (or Rome) and depart from Rome.

Get your itinerary fixed first. Then get advice on apartments from people here who rent them a lot. Then, check times and openings days for sights and museums.

JonahG

Thanks a lot for your detailed input Sassafrass. No, I haven't booked the ticket yet. But I am getting a great round trip, non-stop fare ($655/ticket) from JFK-Milan. Direct flights into Rome or Venice were in the $1300 range, connecting in $800 range and we were trying to avoid connections with kids.

Let me know if you believe taking a connection into Rome for a comparable price is likely to work better for us...

Calabria62

If you haven't already booked your tickets, then I'd think about changing to JFK to Rome. Given the time of year, and 4 kids, you might think about spending your time in Rome and further south. I'd stick to 2 destinations, too.

Rome would offer outdoor sights, like the Colliseum and Forum for the kids to expend some energy, along with Trevi area, Piazza Navona, etc.

You could then head further south and visit Pompeii, Vesuvius, Naples and any of the other sights that interest you.

If you already have tickets to Milan, perhaps Venice & Florence might be good options. Venice for wandering, the Doge's Palace and the sheer magic of it, and Florence for its compact size, (you can walk everywhere).

Don't forget all the wonderful towns in between for day trips.

I guess the bottom line would be to get a guidebook or use the internet to narrow what destinations most interest you, and why.

We have used Homeaway and SleepinItaly for apts.and had success with both.

Sassafrass

Depends on how long the connections are?
Compare layover times with the extra travel time you will have to do by landing in Milan.
Compare cost of landing in Rome (or Venice) with the extra costs of travel from/to Milan to Venice or Rome. There are three airports for Milan, but you will most likely land at Malpensa.
Allow about 1 hour to clear and get luggage. You then take either a train or bus to Milano Centrale (roughly takes 1 hour) and train from there to Venice.
The regional train could take over five hours and eat up your whole first day. The fast train takes roughly 2&1/2 hours, so total travel time of 3&1/2 hours minimum.
The fast train costs about 40 euro so for family of six, 240 euro. You might get a family discount though and cheaper by booking early.
The problem though with pre-booking a longish trip right after arrival is if your flight is late and you can't make the train.

You will also have these expenses to return to Milan and eat up another afternoon of your trip getting back. If you average the total cost of your trip by the number of days, each day costs you money (not just the costs of the train tickets) even if you are sitting on a train or bus. That can be a nice part of your travel experience, but it is costly. Basically, you will lose over a day and spend around 500 euros if you use fast trains. You could spend a lot less, but also eat up more time using regional trains, which are fine for shorter distances.

If you land in Rome, the train will take about 30 minutes to Termini station. From there, taxi to hotel is probably easiest.

If you do want to go to Venice, start there because it is one of the easiest places to land and get over jet lag. A quick shuttle (less than 30 minutes) from the airport and you are right on the Grand Canal in Venice. Vaporetto to Hotel, or walk. Departing Venice by plane is often not as easy because most flights are early and transportation is more difficult early in the AM. Departing Venice by train is a breeze. So landing there and catching a train to your next destination is super easy and fast.

Sometimes people spend most of their first and most of their last day traveling to and from places they never wanted to see (and do not have time anyway) plus hotels in those places. They might have just as well cut their trip shorter by a day or two and flown directly to their city of choice.

Hopes this helps, but really it is best to figure out your main interests and itinerary, then decide what makes the most sense for booking flights.

dreamon

We found our kids (9 and 12) thought Rome was too busy and too big for their tastes. They preferred the smaller places. I see nothing wrong with Milan especially if it is going to save you a bucket. If you plan to stay in the north, Milan is well connected by train to many other locations. You may prefer to choose a small number of slightly smaller cities. For example, Mantova, Verona, Vicenza, Lucca, Siena, Venice (many to choose from). Of course if you want to see Rome then by all means do so but don't feel compelled. Lastly, I think it can be just as tiring to find your way to your hotel in a big city than jump on a connecting train to your first real destination. It's an opportunity to just sit and relax, especially if your flight arrives early in the day and you want to stay awake until a reasonably normal bed time.

A guidebook will give you the best idea for an itinerary and everything (like flights) will follow from there. I also like using google images. booking.com does have some apartments as does venere.com (although I haven't personally used the latter recently). Each town will generally also have their own website with accommodation listings and these can be very good. I recommend at least 3 nights in each place.

There is no advantage to prebooking train journeys on local (regionale) trains. However, savings can be made on pre-booking the faster trains. www.trenitalia.com Trains and buses link most towns except the smallest ones.

bilboburgler

Dreamon has it I think, Milan centre is pretty nice if a little busy but ok for a first night, try and stay near the Duomo rather than Centrale station (more about prostitution and drugs than tourism),

Then aim to visit Florence, Siena, Venice by train (unless you have money and need lots of carrying space). You will not find official porters at Italian stations so if you decide on the train I might upgrade to first class to have a bit more room , but second is fine too. seat61.com should give you the background you need.

sandralist

If it were my family, I'd fly into Milan and spend a night or two there just to make sure everybody gets over their jet lag well. It is fun to climb on the roof of the Duomo, and the Castello Sfozesca should be good for an hour (look it up online and map out an easy plan). I would book to see Da Vinci's Last Supper and also visit the Da Vinci science museum in town. Just for laughs, you might want to take a stroll down the via Montenapoleone to gawk at the fashion stores and eat pastry at a cafe.

Then I would go spend a couple of nights in Verona, with a day trip to Mantova, and then the remainder of the time in Venice in an apartment. From Venice you can take day trips to Ferrara, and Padova, and visit the islands of the Lagoon by boat. At the end of your Venice stay, train back to Milan for the last night.

Moving 6 adults around for a trip is difficult, and while in some ways kids are easier, it is also more of a project to order food, pick the right sights, get everybody through busy train stations. An apartment in Venice will help enormously with breakfasts and simple dinners, plus it will have a washing machine so you can pack EXTREMELY light. Best would be is if each of your kids above the age of 4 can carry their own clothes in a backpack. You will need long pants and waterproofs at that time of year.

Unless some or all of the members of your family are wildly interested in classical painting or architecture, I would save Florence and Rome for another trip. Verona has a very impressive Roman arena and Venice has art galore. Go to the castle in Ferrara to see magnificently frescoed rooms. (Go on a nice day and you can all rent bikes and bike around the town and its walls for a change of pace).

On your last day in Italy, if you are flying out of Milan, you could spend it on Lago Maggiore in Stresa. You can take a bus from there on the morning of your flight home directly to Malpensa airport. The buses start running early in the morning.

bilboburgler

as Sandra says these are all nice

"Then I would go spend a couple of nights in Verona, with a day trip to Mantova, and then the remainder of the time in Venice in an apartment. From Venice you can take day trips to Ferrara, and Padova, and visit the islands of the Lagoon by boat. At the end of your Venice stay, train back to Milan for the last night."

sandralist

Sorry I thoroughly misspelled Castello Sforzesco in Milano

http://www.milanocastello.it/ing/visitaVirtuale.html

and here is a link to the science museum

http://www.museoscienza.org/english/

the ancient Roman arena in Verona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verona_Arena

the old castle (Castelvecchio) in Verona

http://www.lifeinitaly.com/content/castelvecchio-verona

The Renaissance thinkers were enamored of mathematical labyrinths, and there is one in the gardens of the Giusti in Verona that are fun to run around, and there is a labyrinth room in the architecturally complicated palazzo Ducale in Mantova. The whopper dungeon castle of Castello Estense in Ferrara has exceptional ceiling frescoes depicting sports and games, which you look at in strategically placed mirrors so you don't get a neck ache

http://www.castelloestense.it/it

On a trip to Padova, everybody might enjoy seeing the beautiful open air food market in the piazza della Frutta, the world's first anatomical theatre of medicine, a run around the oldest scientific botanic garden in the world, and a visit to the tiny Scrovegni Chapel to see Giotto's frescoes, and which requires waiting in an outer air-controlled room before entering the fragile, air-sealed chapel

http://www.veronadirect.com/adayinpadova.html

You can see a tremendous amount of artistic, ancient, scientific and food-and wine high accomplishment in Italy just around Milan-Verona-Venice.

NYCFoodSnob

Much like the U.S. Northeast, March and April are rain months in northern Italy. Weather is unpredictable, but the transition from winter to spring is what it is.

Venice is wet by default. IMO, Venice in constant rain is no fun. The mold and mildew in Venice is at its worst in March/April. Getting around in Venice, especially in the rain, is extremely expensive for a family of six. Venice from inside a boat (to keep dry) isn't that much fun. In Venice, the kids better love eating fish, 24/7. IMO, it's much easier to feed teenagers in other Italian cities.

My pick would be Rome and Florence, where the kids could enjoy seeing many famous sites and works of art they learned about in school. There is so much to see in Rome, you could spend months there. There are endless, fascinating things to do indoors if you encounter all-day rain. The kids will love a visit to Villa d'Este and Hadrian's Villa, just outside Rome, and if you secure the fabulous Tom Rankin (Context Rome) as your guide, it will be a visit your family will never forget. If you love the historian perspective, try to secure Frank Dabell (also Context) for the Vatican Museums. Both men are famous and at the top of their field.

You could easily rent a car in Florence and explore Tuscany on a nice day or two. Many famous cities are barely a thirty-minute drive away. The roads will be mostly empty. I'm sure the kids would love a visit to Siena and San Gimignano. Tuscany in April is especially great for photography. The early spring colors are misty and magical, and when the sun peeks through the stormy clouds on a rainy day, the drama in the sky can take your breath away.

dwdvagamundo

I would price out whether taking trains makes sense given the size of your family. You may find that renting a car is more economical, even if you have to stay outside the main tourist areas of the city and take transportation into it.

In Venice, the train station and Piazzale Roma, the carpark, are very close, so you would not lose anything by having a car or gain anything by taking the train.

Depending on your interests, I'd say a day or two in Milano, and the rest of the time Florence (with a trip to the Tuscan countryside or vice versa) and Venice.

dreamon

I definitely second the idea of each child carrying their own luggage in a backpack. That's what we did and it worked brilliantly. We made sure they had decent large day packs with a hip band (about 35litres - i.e. school bag size). If they wanted to take it, they had to carry it - and it gave them a sense of responsibility that they had to look after it themselves, pack it up after each stay, etc. Of course, that may not wash with your 4 year old but even s/he could still carry a small backpack. Wish it were us going again!

JonahG

Thank you all! I have spend hours scouring through the wonderful resources you shared. After weighing in the options and consulting with the "home ministry" this is how the itinerary looks:

We will fly into Milan - nonstop - stay one night and then take a train to Venice. Stay in Venice for two nights. (Any suggestions on where to stay for a family of 6, and what not to miss?)

Then visit Florence via train and stay there for 3 nights. (Suggestions of where to stay, what not to miss, or should we add a day in Florence to visit Pisa etc.?)

Then take a train to Rome and stay there for 5 nights. (Suggestions on day trips from Rome, where to stay, and how to travel within the city).

On the last day, we take a fast train from Rome to Milan and then catch a 4 pm flight back to NY.

Extra points for helping us find free sightseeing/museums/entertainment options.

Thanks a lot to all of you.

Jonah G

socaltraveler

Ambitious plan, you are moving a lot of people around to many places in 11 nights. Some of us who having done small group travel call it herding cats. Any way you can take the train to Venice the day you arrive? That first night in Milan will be jetlaggy, and getting everyone to the train station the next day may take longer than you think. I would also consider taking a night from Rome and adding it to Venice.

Do not forget you will need an early train from Rome to get to MXP 3 hours before your departure time to JFK.

Mimar

Are you flying from North America or other long distance flight? As a general rule -- and especially in Italy -- I advocate being in your departure city the night before your flight home. Things can go wrong in Italy: strikes, train breakdowns, traffic accidents. If you miss your flight, it may be days until the next one with 6 seats free. And those fares will be expensive.

But since you don't need to be at the airport until about 13:00, I might take a chance in this case. Allow time to change to the airport train in Milano Centrale.

Hotel rooms in Europe that sleep 6 are very, very rare, if they even exist. Maybe 2 triples? A family room and a double? Finding those adjoining will be difficult. What configuration did you have in mind?

For first-timers a hotel is best, so you can ask questions and get directions at the desk. Does the 4-year-old still nap? Then a central location is especially desirable. (Actually, for a first trip, a central location is always desirable.)

But for a family with younger kids, apartments are more comfortable. You can store snacks and breakfast foods in the kitchen, wash clothes in the washer/dryer, let the 4-year-old nap in a quiet separate bedroom. However, it will be hard to find an apartment that sleeps 6. And apartments usually require longer stays, a minimum of 3 nights.

The consensus on this site, among members who have traveled with their children, is that kids like staying in one spot, getting acquainted with the neighborhood, the bakery, the gelato shop, etc. And I think with 6 people and 4 kids, the less travel the better. (Also the cheaper.) So I'd consider cutting the stops in your proposed itinerary.

Sassafrass

I also say go ahead and go straight to Venice. The first day will be jet-laged anyway. Use it to travel on rather than getting up the next morning, checking out, getting to the train, etc. and rather than using half the next day to get to Venice and get to your hotel, you will wake up and have a whole day in Venice right off.

Consider going to Rome next, then Florence so you have a shorter trip to Milan at the end. Also, consider going to Milan the night before the flight. Staying in Milan center and seeing the cathedral and a bit of the city before departing for the airport.

So
Venice 3 nts, 2 whole days
Rome, 5 nts, 4&1/2 days
Florence, 3 nts, 2&3/4 days

I do like being in the city of departure for the last night and the opportunity to see a bit of Milan, so you could do:
Florence, 2 nts, nearly 3 whole days if you leave early from Rome on the first day, it takes about 90 minutes and you are in the center of Florence. Leave late the 3rd day for Milan. About 2&1/2 hours.
Milan, 1 nt, 1/3 day

However, with the hassle of changing hotels with all the little ones, etc. I think I would take a chance and stay all three nights in Florence.

dreamon

I agree with those who say head straight for Venice on your arrival and stay closer to Milan on your final night. I would personally take time from Rome and add to Venice or Florence but that's just personal choice and depends on what you want to do. Possible day trips from Florence include Fiesole, Pisa, Lucca or Siena. As parents you will be aware that kids usually prefer to do rather than look but only you will know their appetite for art and historical sites.

JonahG

Thanks again. We will take the recommendation of going straight to Venice at arrival for 3 nights, then 3 nights in Florence, 5 in Rome, and arrive in Milan a day before departure.

Question: It looks like multiple FRECCIABIANCA trains leave from Milan to Venice. Will I be able to just walk up, buy a ticket or board such a train or will I have to make a reservation? Since flight arrivals are unpredictable, making a reservation has its risks. What if we miss the train?

Question 2: Once in Venice, I will book an apartment for 6 to sleep. What would be the most convenient location for the apartment? I believe the kids would be cranky by the time we get there and I would like to get them to bed ASAP

Cheers!