Evening wear in Paris – JEANS!!

Nice of you to pass this along in your first-ever posting.

There have been many threads on this subject as perhaps you know. It's not a matter of all jeans all the time vs no jeans ever, it's having a sense of what's appropriate, where you shopping, dining, and drinking, and what looks good. If you felt comfortable and appropriately dressed for the places you went, good for you. I wouldn't call the cautions about jeans outdated, just not 'one size fits all' so to speak.

The advivce is not "outdated" IMO. It depends on the jeans, the accessories, and most important... the butt!

If you've traveled very much, you kind of know what to wear and what major capital cities are like all over the world, and don't need to ask opinions about this.

I find this a very curious post -- most 30 year olds haven't listened for years to advice (from where?) that is "outdated" about wearing jeans in Europe, nor would they even be in a position that they would have asked for it or even cared. I don't know who sent you to Fodors or where you got this advice, but this is clearly not just a typical first-time poster on a travel board.

The 30 year olds I know who wear "designer" jeans would never have asked anyone whether they could wear them in Europe to go to clubs for 20-somethings, nor do they talk about going to "the finest restaurants".

Christina, maybe she hasn't traveled very much. I don't see what is wrong with her post. If one is 30, they shouldn't ask for fashion advice?

But she isn't asking for fashion advice... she's giving it (not that any one asked -LOL)

OK - I'll be rude. This has got to be one of the silliest first posts ever. Not troll-ish -- just silly.

Since you've never been on here before how do you know what sorts of advice has been given about what to wear in Paris?????

I see what you are saying suze, christina, and others.

Oh god, I swore I'd never do this again and now here I go. Janis et al, I don't understand what's wrong with this woman's post. I read it out of sheer boredom at work but I know from reading other threads that jeans seem to be a big travel issue. It seemed to me that she wasn't asking for travel advice but relating her experience. Why is that unacceptable?

Janis, you ask "Since you've never been on here before how do you know what sorts of advice has been given about what to wear in Paris?????" I don't see where she's said she's 'never been here before'. She may have devoured every word on this board about jeans and Paris but never felt the need to post until she had some personal experience to offer.
It seems to me that it's very easy to get into trouble as a first poster -- either you're deemed to be a know-it-all-on-your-very-first-post or a know-nothing-and-asking-too-much. Unless someone is pretty obsequious in their first post ("I'm sorry to ask such a stupid question", "I know I've left this too late", "I thought I'd ask the experts" kind of thing) you practically take your life in your hands making your first posting. Why is MaddieAstrid's history on this site so important to you. Why not just agree or disagree with her position?

I just got back from Paris yesterday, and let me say this: women in Paris will wear ANYTHING.

I have a picture (I had to take one) of a woman at the Orsay in a pair of black velvet print pants, a short sleeved aqua blue t-shirt, with a large gauge hand-knit pink sweater vest thing, and a bright red leather purse. I heard her speak French, and while I didn't check her address to make sure she was Parisian, she was one of a million people I saw in Paris who apparently wear EXACTLY what suits them -- even if it provokes tourists like me to take pictures of their fashion felonies.

Paris is like New York, where individual style is king. You can wear anything you want, in fact the more outrageous it is, the more likely you are to be thought of as being a local instead of a tourist, if that's your goal.

One observation I made is that jeans and white tennis shoes are everywhere, but they are not generally worn together. I found jeans and a nice pair of shoes are more of the norm there, and tennies are usually worn with colored slacks. Black in the fall from head to toe, combined with a messy hairdo because you didn't get up early enough to fix it will make French people approach you in their language.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you wear, but pointy shoes on women help, and khaki pants on men don't.

Have fun beating this dead horse of fashion in Paris. All I know is next time I'm taking my cowboy boots, my hippie tops and wearing them together. LOL

Jules

Hi jules, thanks for the fashion report from Paris. I love hearing about those types of things. hdm, I agree, maybe she just read and never posted until this post.

Jules, your post made me laugh. I have naturally curly hair which, when I travel, I don'try to tame and just let it air dry....I am always approached as if I'm a native. I never knew it was my messy do!

I am aware that "don't try" is not one word.

"OK - I'll be rude. This has got to be one of the silliest first posts ever. Not troll-ish -- just silly."

What justifies the rudeness? Skip it if you think it's a fake or too silly to respond to.

And it's taken you thirty years to work this out?

I noticed that a goodly number of women were wearing a 'gypsy' layered/flouncy kind of look, and the vast majority of them were middle-aged/older (ie. 40's up). What's that about...?

This was a serious post. I am not a jet-set movie star with a closet full of Prada, so consider yourself warned. I go to Europe 3-4 times a year, speak decent French, and like to pack the smallest bag I can get away with. However, I have always found Paris a little intimidating, particularly on the style front. Am I the only one? I searched the jeans thread before I left because I have not noticed many women wearing jeans in nicer restaurants in Paris, but I haven’t really looked either. I usually forgo the haute cuisine for more casual eateries that will put up with my ‘sans jambon’ requests. However, on the occasions where I have been obligated by my company to dine at “finer” restaurants, I have opted for a simple cocktail dress or its black pants counterpart which always fits in nicely, but doesn’t hold up very well to multiple wears, usually needs ironing, limits after dinner options, requires more bag/shoe coordination and, quite frankly, never looks as good on me as my beloved jeans. In my city, there are only 2-3 restaurants where “dressed up” jeans would be inappropriate or offensive, i.e., the “finest” restaurants, the most elegant and formal, but not necessarily the best. But Paris is not DC, and I, apparently some sort of mentally defective woman who, along with most of her friends (despite their love for designer jeans), welcomes advice about what one wears, has worn and would wear, did not find much on jeans in the evening in the Fodors thread, hence my first post, one woman’s fabulous weekend in Paris with jeans (no raised eyebrows, cold service, or denied entry). Christina, do you think one only wears jeans to clubs for 20-year-olds or are you assuming that snotty doormen in Paris are exclusive to those establishments?

Maddie- I think the discussion of why people shouldn't wear jeans traveling has less to do with Paris or getting into restaurants. You are able to pull off jeans "with a sexy top and heels". You're female 30 attractive, good for you. Again I wasn't kidding above, it's not about the jeans, it's about how you look in them.

Hopefully this will not encourage the older wider jeans and sneakers-wearing set to follow suit.

"I am not a jet-set movie star with a closet full of Prada, so consider yourself warned."

Bummer, this would have been a much more fun posting if you were ... lol

I cannot understand how the subject of Jeans is Always such a big deal!
Fur, I understand.
Tiaras I get..but
Jeans?

Scarlett, Dahling, the reason we don't talk about fur or tiaras here is that it requires us to wear a full length ball gown to go with it, and that just doesn't go with the adage "pack light".

Jeans not only pack reasonably lightly (especially in comparison to a princess' evening gown) but they are actually comfy to wear, which is why some of us little people like to wear them.

Repeat after me: "I will never wear khakis in Paris again, even if Prada starts making them."

Jules

LOL, jules, I am the one in the other camp, the one where everyone wears black. Even with our Tiaras

Prada's getting boring, it's reeking of pure commercialism now.

I can't abide the accessories this season with HUGE Prada labels adorning them. It's cheap, lacks design, and isn't clever.

Chanel always does a classy collection, Dior is doing pretty well too. But if you want Prada then just buy the clothes, the bags are dire this season. The quality is good, but not quite couture class. Jil Sander always used super high quality materials, but Prada is run much more as a business primarily for profit, rather than for passion, and an exemplary product.

As for jeans, jeans can take you anywhere these days.

This message is intriguing. Note the adjectives: designer, sexy, swanky,exclusive,finest. I am currently using this message in my English classes. I ask my students to describe what they think the posting lady looks like. All note that she is blonde. Are you?

>Prada's getting boring, it's reeking of pure commercialism now.<

Er.... isn't that what the entire 'designer-label' phenomenon was always about?

Funny GSteed, I pictured a brunette with long straight hair.

GSteed, that's an good sociological experiment you have there. I take it (because of the English class comment) that these are high school students and it's interesting to me that they have such highly developed prejudices based on such a little amount of information. It's a great opportunity for a teacher to talk about what's good or bad about that. (I'm assuming that you didn't just do this to embarrass the OP or other blondes, right?)

I picture MaddieAstrid as someone with the kind of looks I've always envied -- tall, long legs, broad shoulders, narrow hips, and brunette with one of those chin-length cuts that sways when you move. If I had a great 'jeans figure', I'd buy fabulous jeans and wear them with good silk or satin shirts, a great jacket and boots with high heels. It's a look I've always liked and if you can carry it off, it will get you in almost anywhere.

Just coincidentally, we saw the movie "In Her Shoes" on Saturday and I remarked to my husband that Cameron Diaz (who's in her 30's, I think) has a figure that's just perfect for jeans.

Jules: Loved your comment about dressing in black with messy hair. That explains why people kept approaching me in Paris and asking me questions in French. Too funny.

I have terrible fashion sense (at least according to my teenaged daughter), but I'm almost always addressed as a native, in numerous European cities, and not tentatively but in full paragraphs. What a shock when I respond (and I can see they are surprised). Someone posted that people traveling alone are much more likely to be thought of as natives (because they aren't speaking English to anyone, obviously), and I think that's a much more important factor than one's exact wardrobe.

"Er.... isn't that what the entire 'designer-label' phenomenon was always about? "

Not at all. Prada never used to have this very commercial streak. They produced aesthetic, and interesting clothing that perhaps didn't appeal to a wide market. Now they've changed the shapes, the cuts, the materials, and all in all have created a product that everyone can have, and everyone can wear (within reason). Far too commercial.

This is largely the reason why Jil Sander left her label (owned by Prada) for the second time. She just wasn't allowed to do what she wanted, Prada would interfere and tell her to use cheaper materials, etc. etc. Raf Simons is a good example of not playing to the commercial side, he produces collections under his own label where many pieces are truly runway (capes, leggings, that sort of thing).

Dior Homme started out as a very couture influenced project. Now it is becoming more commercial, but certainly nowhere near Prada.

Degas,
Weren't you one of the posters who thought it was OK for a woman to wear shorts in Paris? I don't care one way or another about that issue but it sounds like you have strong feelings about jeans. Shorts OK but jeans not OK? How come?

And wow, I am truly impressed (and no sarcasm intended here) with m_kingdom's incredible knowledge of the fashion industry. I had no idea of the commercial/non-commercial aspects of it.

I've been vacationing in Paris almost annualy since 1976 and it's not a question of whether or not one can wear jeans in Paris, but a question of the appropriatness of what kind...NOT brand/label...of jeans and how they are worn. If they have a tailored fit and aren't sloppy and slouchy and worn out, then it can be pulled off.It's all about style. I was wearing them, in Paris, with a wool,boucle Chanel jacket back in the 80s and with no problems. Jeans are meant to be worn with more than T-shirts and sweatshirts. Happy Travels!

Now that I've read some of the other comments...I see nothing silly about this post at all. The question of whether it's appropriate to wear jeans (and shorts) in Paris comes up all of the time.I think people should be able to ask whatever they want. What is known by one person is not necessarily known by another person. Happy Travels!

What difference does it make if this is Maddie's first post or her 5000th? Why is there always someone who checks up on a person's posting "status" before replying?

While I will probably wear what I like to wear and have always worn, to Paris or anywhere else, I will pass along this info to my daughter who is going to France this summer. It won't make a whit of difference in her wardrobe, which seems composed almost 100% of jeans, jeans, and more jeans. But at least it will give her the opportunity to say, "I told you so, Mom!"

Somehow I don't think that big ol' brown LEE label on the derriere of my jeans is going to take me into the finer spots in Paris. For me it's packing the very high heels you have to wear to carry off the chic jeans look that keeps any jeans out of my European travel wardrobe. A lanky body looks good in jeans no matter the age of the person but the high heels are a must. Now if only I could afford a personal porter Deborah

Jeans are fine. Shorts are fine. The only strong feelings I have is for RC cola and moon pies.

I was just poking a little fun at what I think to be a troll.

kwsl,
you're a good mom to occasionally give your daughter this gift and

"What difference does it make if this is Maddie's first post or her 5000th? Why is there always someone who checks up on a person's posting "status" before replying?"

I have NEVER understood that!

and degas,
for me it's Dr. Pepper and cheesies

hdm, we may be soulmates!

Never wear jeans with brown labels on the back. Alexander McQueen does ones with ponyskin labels which are just about acceptable. However, the jeans should speak for themselves, Dior, Helmut Lang, and Miu Miu (although Miu Miu jeans aren't wonderful) never ever have external labels. It's so easy to tell what they are from ten feet, so who needs labels?

Dear M Kingdom: you know so much about fashion that I love reading your posts. You're not on America's Next Top Model are you??????

I don't think I'd ever do reality TV. Especially American shows. Besides, who'd want to watch me?

What about Roberto Cavalli? I wouldn’t trade my favorite pair for a lifetime supply of Chloe, and while I agree that jeans should speak for themselves, I sometimes worry mine are saying too much.

He's a bit bling for my tastes, but if you have the figure and look that can carry it, then fair enough.

M Kingdom, I'd watch you. You're smart, witty and funny, a combination sorely lacking these days in most of the idiots on TV. So glad you're on Fodors!

As we're all into personal observations and airing our idiosyncratic views:

1. Maddie Astrid writes and argues well: succinct, not defensive, confident. She is most welcome here.

2. I keep wondering if there really is a person or thing called Miu-Miu -- someone or something to whom or to which MK2 alone, in my experience, refers.

(I am aware of, indeed was fond of, the French actress Miou-Miou.)

3. I think jeans are great.

4. I think the French are such individualists that any personal style -- if it is indeed an expression of self, not slovenliness or camp-following -- is legit.

Is this the first time ever MK2 has conceded a fashion point???

Scarlett - LOL!!! If I could only get invited to places where tiaras could be worn....

Miu-Miu is the younger line in the Prada Company.

I don't want to join what sounds like a silly post,but I'd like to comment on the jeans for evening wear issue. As one email response stated - it's not the jeans,but what the body looks like in the jeans. I've watched fellow Americans deplaning in Paris wearing shorts, sweats, t-shirts and jeans, and have been disgusted. Many of them were 20-40(or more)pounds overweight, and those too casual clothes were often way too tight. Look around Paris and you won't see Parisians over 20 years old or so dressed like that, and very few who are obese. The French still have a bit of personal pride. Adults only wear shorts in their yard, on the beach, or on the tennis court. If they don't have the body for it, they generally aren't seen in it out in public.
If you have a good body, and dress in designer jeans, a fun and/or sexy top and good shoes, jeans are fine. If you're wearing a t-shirt(especially one with a slogan or logo)hanging out over a big belly,jeans,and flip flops or sandals with socks - then the glare is deserved.

LOL, Diane, but you did join a silly post!
The real question is, not if your belly hangs over your jeans but do you wear a Tiara when deplaning?
Believe me, there are plenty of Parisians who can use some personal styling..and plenty of older Parisians wear jeans. And shorts.

Scarlett, the problem with deplaning wearing the tiara is that the evening gown throughout the long flight must be quite uncomfortable. Unless you are Ms Universe and then you could wear the standard pantsuit and lots of diamonds. Maybe she could get away with designer jeans AND the tiara...She could still not wear the long fur coat without facing PETA!

HDM & kwsl, I SO agree with you. Maybe after a certain number of posts you're considered by some to have first class status while if you have under 50 you're in coach.

In my personal experience, it really slows up the security line when I try to get through the metal detector with my tiara on. And if you think I'm putting my prized Ms Walmart USA tiara in one of those smelly plastic boxes, well, you've got another think coming, Miss.

Oh, dear.
I THOUGHT my tiara, diamante parure, Cavalli jeans, Prada clutch and "My Boyfriend Went to Ibiza and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt" top got some funny looks at the Orsay, but I assumed I was being too sensitive.

"The French still have a bit of personal pride. ...if they don't have the body for it, they generally aren't seen in it out in public."

-- Hence the muscular, voluptuous and generally highly toned bodies on French beaches.

(OK, OK perhaps all those Speedo victims and topless grannies are German)

......I believe the correct term for
that roll o'flab hanging over the low
rider is 'muffin top'.

If your tiara is big enough, bejewelled enough and tall enough, it will distract those disapproving Parisians from your belly flab. Isn't that why tiaras were invented?

Let's face it, if you can't tell the difference between the loose-ass, hanging belly, t-shirt and flip-flops jeans look and the long-leg, tight butt, narrow hip, high heel, expensive shirt and jacket jeans look, fashion is probably the least of your social problems.

MaddieAstrid, Thankyou for your post, I too have read numerous posts regarding the wearing of jeans in Paris so I found your post refreshing.

I also appreciated it from the perspective of someone in a similar age group. The doormen here(at home) decide whether you can enter a club or not based on your overall look and I've never been intimidated by that before, however I am rather intimidated by this in another country.

I find it very sad that the self proclaimed 'forum police' judge a good post by the number of times you've posted previously and obviously the relevance it has to them, however I was under the misguided impression that this was about providing others with information and advice regarding travels and experiences?

Maybe if a post has no relevance, instead of slamming someone for sharing their experiences, you could ignore it or better still, go for a walk around the block and maybe you too will get that body that can wear jeans anywear.

My French friends always have blazers in their car when we travel. She wears "nice" jeans and he wears nice casual pants. When we go into any restaurant they put on the blazer. She adds a scarf.

They will then dress for dinner according to the type of restaurant. A starred restaurant would call for dressier on the part of both.

These are French of many generations. I am guided by what I see and what they do. I am a guest in their country and it is my responsibility to adapt to their customs and practices while I am accepting their hospitality, whether in their homes or in their hotels. If you can't accept that responsibility, then perhaps you shouldn't travel. That's the way I feel about all discussions of this nature. Really, there shouldn't even be these discussions. It should be common sense and courtesy that everyone should have learned by the time they do any traveling.

Everything depends on your lifestyle how you look and are confident. I wore jeans with a teal blue camisole and velvet short jacket and ballet flats and had many compliments. Americans lock themselbve in on how they are supposed to look and dress. As Gloria Steinam said: What's 40 supposed to look like. Be yourself but be appropiate. Women in Paris don't ask what to wear nor do they sit writing in journals. They enjoy the passing parade as we do looking at her.

jules - no khaki pants on men? so what should they wear? DH looks good in his khakis and DS is not allowed to wear the worn out jeans hanging down to his knees that he normally wears, although, if I may say so, he is young, an athlete, and looks great in anything (a hottie, I believe the term is). Is the underwear that shows OK for male teens done in France? (that was said tongue in cheek, BTW)

I don't really care if we stand out or not, we tend to do so here when we all start talking and arguing at once. But, I don't want to offend, and I would like to be able to get into the restaurants that I want when we are there.

I can ignore sneers if I must, but my teenage daughters are more sensitive to the opinion of strangers. Their US everyday attire is heavy on the jeans, sneakers and tshirts. We will be eating very low on the Michelin star chain, if that, and will not attempt to crash any chic clubs. Will their youth excuse them from wearing pointy shoes for miles of cobbled streets? What if we promise to spruce up before deplaning?

What is strange about this subject is that the poster and certain other participants want to qualify for being well dressed in Paris but are trying to determine what is the minimal acceptable attire. What normal people do is dress however feels right, and if they are turned away for any place for being incorrectly dressed (a very rare occurence in 21st century France), they go elsewhere. Who would want to go somewhere that looks down on you?

This was not about finding the minimum standards, it was about relaying a recent trip experience and advising others.

Everywhere in the western world has exclusive clubs as per the ones mentioned(even the US) and the reason they look you up and down first is to decide whether you are the type of client that they would like in the club. The only ones who complain about this practice are the ones who don't get in, hence the word "exclusive".

I find it laughable that people honestly believe that the French don't ask for fashion advice, are all the fashion forums in France written by expats?

"What normal people do is dress however feels right" and what feels right to someone in Paris might be very different to what feels right to someone in LA and very different again to someone in Iran or Alaska, this is why these posts are interesting to some of us. It is also why some people will still wear their fanny packs, loud shirts and baseball caps-because that's what feels right for them. This I might add is a choice, one that some are happy with, that's their choice.
Some of us however choose to discuss these things and learn from the experiences of others (afterall, everyone here is doing that in some way).

Thanks, Angelblue71. Well put. My concern is we'll only have so much luggage space. If jeans will put off large segments of a population we're not familiar with, I'd rather my girls left them home. Last time I was in Paris, I forgot to notice how anyone was dressed. (though I did admire the gensdarmes' uniforms) We can't wait until we get there, scope out decently-dressed attire, then follow suit. Picking up a new comme il faut wardrobe at Chanel, Prada, or even Galeries Lafayette, isn't an option.

Could I raise the issue of clothing weight? Jeans are heavy and slow to dry when they get wet. Wouldn't a different kind of fabric be better for travel?

On my recent trip to Paris I wore nothing but jeans and I was still the best dressed in many places. Who ever said that the French don't wear jeans?

>>> On my recent trip to Paris I wore nothing but jeans...<<<

No shirt? How charming and scandalous of you!

(insert goofy but cheerful smiley face here)

"I don't really care if we stand out or not, we tend to do so here when we all start talking and arguing at once."

Momliz, are we related?

Hi Stokebaily, I noticed plenty of jeans in Paris last fall. My daughter didn't wear them because we packed particulary light that trip, because we moved around a bit more than usual. She took black sketchers that didn't look as much like gym shoes, and were very comfortable. You mentioned t-shirts, and I did notice, that I didn't see ANY tshirts with logos. So, if comfort is important, and your girls like tshirts, I would suggest 3/4, or long sleeve plain tees, or perhaps tanks for warmer weather. We all noticed that the French women, even when dressed in jeans seemed very "put-together" Nice shoes,bag,etc. I am not saying that this is always the case, as many have said here. This was just my families observations. I don't think your girls will have any problems with jeans. It doesn't sound like you'll be going anywhere that this would be a problem. You could always intice them to bring a pair of black pants in case you do go to a restaurant that makes jeans uncomfortable. My daughter and I bought several scarves while there, and that makes an outfit look better IMHO. They pack flat, take up little space and can add a little variety if one is packing lite. They seemed to be available everywhere,in many price ranges.

Perfect, peppermintpatti. Thanks. While on the subject of nice bags: my 14 yo bought her Dream Purse this year, a pink suede number that makes her feel well-turned-out. Would it be a pickpocket magnet? Do the Parisian women clutch their purses to their chests on the Metro?