Mariannah

I've just brought a Eurorail pass to use this summer; I've brought the 15 days travel in 2 months variety, with the intention of using it in July and August (peak time, I know!). Not long after, my friend told me I was wasting my money, and that with a Eurorail pass, all you saw were a lot of train stations. I would like to know what you all think, and if there is any way to minimise previously expeirienced problems (if there are any)?

If it is relevant, I was thinking of visiting Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam, Hamburg, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Berlin, Dresden, Munich, Salzburg, Vienna, Venice, Milan, Florence, Rome and then back to Paris. Any thoughts?

Singletail

That is like saying "If you drive, you'll end up seeing a lot of toll booths and gas stations." Your "friend" is probably one of those people who is absolutely wedded to their automobile...let them be since you've obviously moved on.
You'll enjoy the convenience of the pass and the ability to move about on the spur of the moment. Have a GREAT trip..and travel a lot since the thing gets cheaper and cheaper each time you travel.

GeoffHamer

Whether a pass is worthwhile depends entirely on how much rail travel you're doing. Your itinerary sounds as though a pass would be a good idea. Travelling by train, you get to see a lot more of countries. Most railway stations are actually in towns or cities: if you have an hour between trains, you can just step outside the station to find bars, cafés and restaurants where you can learn something about the place you're visiting. Some stations are actually magnificent historic buildings in their own right.
You can also save time by travelling overnight - you can spend a day sightseeing in Roma, spend a night in a sleeping compartment, then have a day sightseeing in Paris.

ira

Hi M,

This does look like the railpass is worthwhile.

Go to www.railsaver.com and enter your itinerary. They can tell you.

Keep in mind that you will have to make reservations for seats on TGV, THALYS and ES* trains, for about $15 each.

You will also have to pay extra for sleeping accomodations.

rex

This will sound like a big paternalistic lecture. I mean it with all the politeness I can scrape together.

I am one of "those kinds of people" who would speak (sometimes harshly) of purchasing a rail pass for a trip like this. I assume from your description that you bought a Eurail Pass flexi for $914. My biggest criticism is - - and I hate to say it directly to your face - - that you bought something before/without thinking about what you need. By buying first, and then thinking about how you will use it second, the indeucement is to use it to the max "since you've already paid for it" - - and therein lies the temptation to believe that moving around more is somehow seeing "more of Europe". I am also chagrined to see a trip that suggests that seeing the CITIES of Europe is "seeing Europe". It's seeing HALF of Europe. The other (and sometimes, "better&quot half is in the small towns and countryside of Europe, which are (occasionally) not so easily accessed by train.

But I don't know anything about you. If you were my daughter, I would be quite opposed to a 60 day trip. I would urge four 15 day trips spread over the next 3-6 years, and as often as not, in seasons other than summer (at least not every time).

Still, we all have different senses of economic "value" - - my plan, after all "wastes" both time and money FOUR times in transatlantic air travel.

So - - since my comments thus far are really addressed to others contemplating doing what you have already done - - the least polite thing I could do would be to at least address your actual situation, and address the question(s) you have asked.

It's hard to do that without knowing more about you and your "onjectives". Maybe you are an international finance major, and seeing nine different international (or regional) "capitals" of finance and business is way more important to you than seeing where the slower paced life where big news is that the baker has brought out the fresh stuff "del giorno" that morning.

And if you are into "comparative" government or economics or even fashion, art history or whatever, then you really will want to see eight different countries all in the same summer, I guess.

But it feels too much like going to the zoo and wanting to see "one elephant, one giraffe, one gorilla, one lion, one tiger" and not learning much about any one of them.

I would cut out the two Scandinavian cities or the two Austrian cities - - unless of course, there is some natural affinity you have for those places and their cultures. I would even make the somewhat more radical suggestion that if it is not too late (if you haven't purchased your air travel yet), that you cut this 60 day trip down to 35 days or less. It doesn't mean that your $914 is even further "down the drain". It means 25 fewer days of food and lodging eating away at your bank account(s) THIS year - - and available for planning a trip in '05 or '06 when you are going to have this tremendous experience of '04 under your belt - - and choose to plan the next trip quite a bit differently.

I hope you have a great trip. If you fdidn't get a Thomas Cook ttimetable with your rail pass, you ought to go ahead and spend the $20 to buy one of those, it will be invaluable for "on the fly" schedule planning.

Best wishes,

Rex Bickers
Floyds Knobs, Indiana

Cicerone

I live in Europe and would never take a driving "vacation" in July or August. In addition to road traffic you will encounter, esp on Fridays through Mondays, the parking situation in most European cities is terrible: it is hard to find and expensive. Finally, if my calculations are correct, the distance of your circuit is at least 1,800 miles. I would never want to drive that much, its not a vacation to me; not to mention that at US$4.50 a gallon for gas (bound to go up this summer), you would spend at least $400 for gas (assuming you could get 20 miles a gallon), and this does not include highway tolls. . . .

Trains in Europe bring you right to the heart of each city, no hassle trying to find your way in by car from the ring roads on one-way streets and then trying to find your hotel, which you can probably walk to from the train stations?.no question to me that the route you are taking and the time you are taking it would not be a "vacation" if driving. I don't think I would even undertake that much driving at any time of year.

rkkwan

The question is not whether the Eurail Pass is a good idea, but whether to visit 15 cities in 15 days is a good one, regardless of whether you're taking the train, car, or flying.

You'll see a lot of scenery enroute, but you'll not have time to see any of these places in depth. Some people like to travel one way, some the other. It's totally up to you.

So, in fact, I'd say it's not the money or the rail pass that's in question. It's actually the time and effort. Country side and natural beauty? City and sights? Your choice.

Patrick

I'm with you all the way. I'm not sure how much "planning" and "thinking" you did about the itinerary prior to making this purchase, but assuming you've already thought out where you want to go and what you want to see, I think it is great.
My first "major" European trip was as a new early "retiree", and two of us did a three month rail pass covering pretty much all of what you have mentioned plus a whole lot more. Many people would throw their hands up in disgust at such a trip, but I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything. Although we still go to Europe for a couple months every summer and now usually concentrate on smaller areas, that trip was absolutely THE BEST!! It is what got me hooked on going to Europe and making me want to see more and more. And while some feel that concentrating the whole couple of months on one or two countries so you can "remember what you see", I really feel the opposite. Seeing 20 Italian towns for example over a one month period will probably become one big blur (so many similaries).But it is easier to remember the differences between towns you saw in the Netherlands, from those you saw in the Czeck Republic, and those you saw in Italy. A wide diversity of dramaticly different geographical regions and cultures, makes for a more stimulating holiday in my opinion.

indytravel

Wow! 2 months. Sounds wonderful.

I spent 2 months in Europe in 2001 and loved it. Luckily I was able to go in May & June so tourist season wasn't in full swing yet. But you go when you can go.

You've bought the Eurail pass so that's done. Don't worry about other people telling you you've spent too much or you "should have?" It's something you can't undo so don't waste your time second guessing yourself. Use that time to plan a fabulous trip.

You'll have a great opportunity to see some incredible places. My piece of advice is to really, really use that rail pass. It's good for all day travel. Leave Brugges early, stop in Antwerp for the day then take a late train on to Amsterdam that night. Between Berlin and Dresden stop in Leipzig for a day. Between Salzburg and Vienna stop at a little Austrian town for the day, etc.

You can see some great small places in between the great large places you're visiting. Use the German rail site www.bahn.de to look at schedules through Europe and have some ideas when you get there.

Since you may leave a city earlier or later than you thought you really should get the Thomas Cook timetable to carry with you. The train schedules are pretty consistent Monday through Friday, but weekends and holidays can have really reduced service.

AAFrequentFlyer

rkkwan,
The pass allows you to travel on 15 days during a 2 month period. So she will get to stop and smell the roses.

papagena

Hi Mariannah,

I did a trip very similar to yours, even slightly more intensive in terms of the number of cities visited in a short time, and it was fantastic. Of course it is not possible to get an in-depth understanding of local life by spending a few days in a capital city. But a trip such as yours is a great way to see a lot of Europe and to get an idea of where you'd like to go back to in future.

The problems we had on our trip were; (1) When we didn't book accommodation in advance we ended up spending time and money which could have been put to better use, on trying to find rooms.

(2) We ended up in Italy on several national holidays during August, which meant that a lot of things were closed.

Apart from that it all went fine...the trains were on time, we didn't feel we saw too many stations (!), it was a great trip.

rkkwan

AAFF - Oh, thanks for pointing that out. I typed too quickly before reading the original post carefully.

Anyways, I think such trip with a Eurail Pass would be wonderful. Go for it, and ignore the naysayers!

crazymina

I agree 100% with Patrick.

I love to travel, but NOTHING compared to my four months in Europe. Totally different kind of travel that few can afford to do (both timewise and financially...unless you're Australian for some reason! )

14 day trips are great, but many times they often are "trips". Believe me, after 3 weeks, you are no longer on a trip. You're traveling, and that has its upside and downside. Like Patrick said, it's such a different perspective. People say, hey, explore Tuscany and see all the hilltowns. I'm sure there is amazing beauty in that. But there is such drama and scope in going from the chill and winter wonderland of Prague to late night tapas in balmy Sevilla in a matter of days, and not caring that you're traveling long distances on a whim to do it. What a comparision...and such a delight to remember.

Enjoy the Eurail...Europe is a fantastic place to travel by rail.

Mariannah

Wow, thanks guys for all the info, it has been really helpful. Rex raises a good point about seeing only big cities, but let me explain. I have just finished school and am now working as an english assistant in a high school in St Quentin, France. I have the summer holidays off to do as I please. I'm not sure when I'll have this opportunity again, so I want to make the most of it. I was attracted to the Eurorail because if I don't like a place, I can go, whereas if I do, I can stay for a while. (My first time in Europe); Rex suggests dropping Austria and Scandanavia. What do people think about this? I was actually thinking of adding Barcelona to the list. Am I being overly ambitious?

GeoffHamer

Trains don't just go to big cities. The schedules published in the Thomas Cook Timetable are just summaries. There are thousands of smaller stations serving towns and villages. The full schedule for Great Britain alone is a 2000-page book. There is at least one station in Scotland, Corrour on Rannoch Moor, which cannot be reached by road. A good map will show railway lines, and the schedules will be on www.bahn.de (though check who runs the trains as some branch lines are run by independent companies who do not accept Eurail passes).

Kristinelaine

Mariannah -- I think the joy of having the pass is that you can add or drop cities as you go. You don't have to decide now. I would add Prague to your list in any case. My personal opinion is that Prague and Paris are the most wonderful cities in Europe. Don't miss Prague! You could go there between Vienna and Dresden.

rex

Several points of clarification:

I suggested dropping Austria OR Scandinavia (the loop was too big).

But you are now living and working in St. Quentin? Or you are GOING to be living and working there?

This changes everything. I assumed that "brought" ws just a typo for "bought". But you bought it before going to France and bRought it with you?

I would seriously think about seeing if you can get your money back.

Now, you are not constrained by a flight at either end of this "trip". And I will concede/acknowledge that there IS a difference between "traveling", as the way you are living - - and "going on a trip" (even though I have only been to Europe twice for more than 20 days).

But you have the opportunity to do some of both, and put much of that $914 back in your pocket.

And now, I will get more paternalistic than ever. I don't know if "just finished school means high school, collge or graduate school - - but you have NOT finished your "education" - - and lucky you, Europe is gonna be part of how you add to your plate. I assume that you are approaching this adventure - - of 2004 - - with a certain amount of cash in the bank, or expectations that you can pay off this summer's expenses in the coming school year (2004-2005).

You can/should multiply the enrichment you get from THIS summer by ending up "cash-neutral" on Aug 31, compared to where you started on July 1. I assume you have a work visa or dual citizenship. While I know nothing about casual employment (and I realize that unemployment is high in Europe), you have a choice: spend $4000-6000 (on top of the $914) this summer, or spend $2000 and make $2000, tucked in between say... three ten day trips - - one to the north, one to Italy, and one, either east, or southwest.

The world is your oyster, Mariannah. For what it's worth, I could follow my own advice, even though I would have to add the time/cost of trans-atlantic flights to duplicate your opportunities. But I have daughters' weddings to pay for, and many more fish to fry on my current and future plates.

Someday, you will too. Balance having fun and doing well by yourself and it will multiply your future opportunities - - to share the enrichment you gain in your youth, with children and/or loved ones in the future.

Break a leg!!!

Patrick

What Rex says is both true and wise. Thank goodness, though, I didn't have someone like Rex talk me out of my trip. It may have been frivolous or wastefull, and not the WISE think to do, but as I said before I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. Sometimes I'm glad I don't do the WISE choice.
And although I've been back to Europe time and time again, as I said my favorite trip remains the whirlwind one of hopping on trains and covering huge differences of cultures and landscapes. Now I can concentrate on smaller regions, but that first trip can't be topped for sheer excitement and fun.

Bird

You've bought it - enjoy it. The price of the pass is sunk. Why second guess yourself. There are plenty of benefits to a rail pass. Even if you didn't use every day - big deal. Concentrate on enjoying your stay in Europe. Be flexible and spontaneous. Have fun.