viranpooja

Hi everyone. My family of 10 is coming to Europe this summer for two weeks. We are coming from USA, starting our trip in Zurich, Switzerland and ending in Prague, Czech. Here is a tentative plan. I know that some of you may feel that this is too much and some of you may feel this is ok. However, please keep in mind that we are ok with jumping from place to place so we can see more. We are primarily an active group with the exception of my aunt and mom who have slight knee problems.

What kind of rail pass do we buy to go through all of this? We are debating between buying a 10 day rail pass that does 3 bordering countries, buying individual point to point passes, renting a car/van, hiring a private driver. The other option is getting eurorail tickets for 3-4 days for each country if it gives more benefits then getting a select pass for bordering countries? Please help with suggestions?

• Day 1--> Arrive in Zurich by 9:00am.
○ Head to Lauterbrunnen Valley and drop off bags at hotel
○ Go waterfall viewing in the valley
○ Spend the night in Lauterbrunnen Valley

• Day 2 --> Head to Grindelwald in the morning
○ Ziplining in the morning
○ Alpine sliding in this area
○ Spend night in Lauterbrunnen Valley

• Day 3--> Head to Broc and Grueyere
○ Chocolate factory in Broc
○ Cheese factory in Grueyere
○ From Grueyere, head to Chur and spend the night in Chur

• Day 4-> Bernina Scenic Express from Chur
○ Train for Bernina Express leaves at 8:30am and arrives in Tirano around 12:45pm
○ Leave from Tirano, Italy at 2:30pm and get back to Chur at 6:30pm
○ Spend the night in Chur?? Or can take a late night train to Salzburg? Or can take over night train to Vienna? (this obviously affects the rest of the schedule below)

• Day 5 --> Chur to Salzburg in the morning
○ Unless we already get to Salzburg late at night then we can wake up a bit later
○ Hang around Salzburg town all day
○ Spend night in Salzburg

• Day 6 --> Ice Caves
○ Spend the night in Salzburg

• Day 7 --> Hallstat
○ Spend the night in Salzburg

• Day 8 --> Morning in Salzburg and then leave for Vienna
○ 2 and half hour train ride
○ Spend the night in Vienna

• Day 9--> Spend day in Vienna
○ Spend the night in Vienna

• Day 10--> Day trip to Budapest, Hungary?
○ There is a tour company that does day trip to Budapest but we may or may not do this
○ Spend the night in Vienna

• Day 11 --> Leave for Prague in the morning
○ Spend the day and night in Prague

• Day 12 --> Prague
○ Visit nearby concentration camp
○ Spend the night in Prague

• Day 13--> Another full day in Prague
○ Spend the night in Prague

• Day 14 --> early morning flight back to USA

Thank you in advance to all who reply

Reading54

Add the cost of your point-point train tickets, compare that to a 3-country (Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic) SELECT SAVER pass for 10 days to see what the price differences are. With the 10 of you, and assume no children under 11, you should group every two person together on a SAVER pass to save 15%.

Even if there is a small price difference, it is a great convenience to have a pass, which will save you time from lining up at train stations to buy tickets.

The Bernina Express is by reservation only. In summer months the seats may sold out quickly. You'll need to reserve your seats on the Bernina Express as soon as you reach Switzerland and book it at any train station. If the seats were already sold out on your date, ask the rail employee for suggestion of alternatives. Sometimes you may take a different express that covers 90% of the same route, sometimes you'll have to take a regular train traveling the same route.

Also, double check if your rail pass will cover over-night sleeper trains. My recollection is that it does not.

Dukey1

Why would anybody WAIT until they GET to Switzerland to get Bernina Express tickets? DON'T do that. Go on-line and get the tickets THERE:

www.rhb.ch

Reading54

If you have a train pass which covers the route, all you'll need is to pay a few euros per person to reserve your train seats at any European train station with your activated train pass. (In OP's case this will be in Switzerland.) You do not need to spend the big $$ to purchase individual train tickets.

Huggy

Several other trains travel the same route at the BE. You do not need to reserve the BE for the same experience. For those trains, you can just show up and buy a ticket without the 7E reservation charge per ticket. Usually less crowded on these trains but you might be required to make a train change enrollee but that is not a big deal.

For a great and detailed explanation, please go to www.seat61.

Huggy

Auto correct changed my en route to enrollee. That is a new one.

thursdaysd

Definitely buy the BE tickets as soon as possible.

Definitely go to seat61.com and read up on European train travel.

You need to price individual tickets vs. passes. A pass for Switzerland comes with extras and will almost certainly be worth the money. A pass for anywhere east of that is usually not worthwhile. Remember that if you buy point to point tickets ahead of time they will almost always be much cheaper - price them for a couple of months out.

I hope you are traveling light, you will need to handle your own luggage, depending on the station that may well involve stairs.

I can't imagine "doing" Budapest as a day trip. Its two and a half hours by train one way, and probably more by car, and the city is worth several days.

PalenQ

No to Eurail for those train plans but yes to the Swiss Pass - if you have kids under 16 they get a free Family Pass and never pay a penny for anything the adults use their pass on - a no-brainer for Switzerland IMO - the rest just buy point to point.

For lots of goodies on European trains check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com- latter has great advice on discounted tickets you can get in Italy and Austria - and there yes you may be able to get a mini-group discount.

PalenQ

One reason a Swiss Pass is better than a eurailpass in Switzerland is that it covers much more than Eurails do - like travel in full to Grindelwald or Wengen or Murren or Lauterbrunnen whereas Eurail only gives 25% off on some of those.

Plus I doubt a Eurail Select Three Country Pass for all three countries would not be cost-effective for you but a Swiss Pass certainly should be.

StCirq

<<You do not need to spend the big $$ to purchase individual train tickets.>>

The poster of this doesn't seem to know much about p-t-p tickets in Spain, Italy, and France, where buying ahead of time (92-120 days in advance depending on the country and the tickets) can save you loads and loads of money. And where passes end up being a real inconvenience as well as expensive because you have to pay for reservations on long-distance trains in addition to the cost of the pass and may not be able to reserve seats because the number is limited.

PalenQ is right about Swiss passes - well worth the money in this case. The rest of your travels, buy p-t-p tickets and don't listen to people who tell you you'll be spending big $$ to do so. I regularly travel, for example, on the high-speed TGV between Paris and Bordeaux for 19 euros. On "individual tickets." You have to know how to work the system, not just make blind assumptions that a p-t-p ticket is going to cost "big $$."

nytraveler

See that you have not really looked at your itinerary as suggested.

You still seem to think that the 8 hour train ride from Budapest to Prague allows you to spend the whole day in Prague - versus just dinner.

Have you actually looked at the time for any of the trips to see how they cut into your already minute sightseeing time?

And will the older members of the group want to travel at this pace?

Reading54

I was responding to Dukey1's post at 10:08am. If the OP gets rail passes, then she/he will only have to pay a few Euros/pp to make seat reservations for the Bernina Express, she/he does not have to shell out the big $$ to purchase the individual BERNINA EXPRESS train tickets.

I know one may purchase heavily discounted point-to-point train tickets 60 -90 days ahead that come with restrictions, and I have taken advantage of them myself. But I was referring to the individual Bernina Express tickets, let's not mix apples with oranges.

Dukey1

To say that the "only difference" between the Bernina Express and those other timings on that same route is the possibility of having to make a change is false. The Bernina Express timings carry the panorama cars with larger windows and roomier seating and with recorded narration that the other timings do not have.

PalenQ

regular trains that you can just hop on with a valid ticket or pass between St Moritz and Italy do not require a change of trains - usually anyway.

I actually prefer the local trains - having taken both them and the BEX official train because IME the BEX trains are always full to the gills with tour groups - regular trains are often half full and you can jump from side to side as the scenery dictates, etc. and not feel stuck in your seat like on the official BE.

but the factors Dukey mentions are pluses for the official trains. In summer there are even open-air flat rail cars on regular trains - making them the ultimate observation car.

most of the scenery - awesome scenery however is on the west side the whole route.

You have to book BEX trains very early as they do fill up.

thursdaysd

I did most of the William Tell route on a regular train last year, having taken the Golden Pass route sitting up front in a panorama car back in 2005 (although part of that trip was by bus). I did not feel short-changed by being in a regular train car, the journey was much, much cheaper (about 10 USD!) and didn't require me to change trains to reach Como where I was picking up the ferry to Varenna.

Huggy

Dukey is correct, the experience is different on non BE trains. However, on trains that are non BE, the scenery is the same, the passenger rail cars have windows, and there is usually fewer passengers to allow for greater personal movement. I have experienced both to my satisfaction.

PalenQ

BEX trains are called the world's slowest express trains (as is the Glacier Express I think) - but they are quicker than the locals because they do not stop so much. And only with the official BEX trains are BEX buses to Lake Como (Mennagio) and Lugano that are coordinated only with the official BEX trains at Tirano, end of Bernina Pass Railway in Italy.

Italian trains also serve Tirano about hourly to Varenna and Lake Como (Bellagio a short ferry ride away from there) and Milan.

I think for the first time, like I did, the official BEX trains are the best choice but the next time take the regional trains that are also cheaper.

viranpooja

Thank you so much for all the wonderful tips!!!

So it looks like the consensus is I should get a Swiss Travel pass..in my case...4 consecutive day pass. And then get point to point tickets when I am traveling in Austria and in Prague (in Prague we will just be staying within Prague except for the one day when we do a guided tour for the concentration camp).

This is very helpful. One more question;

1. Will the Swiss Travel pass cover my travels in Lauterbrunnen, Grindelwald, Broc, Grueyeres, Chur? And EuroRail selective pass will NOT?

PalenQ

1. Will the Swiss Travel pass cover my travels in Lauterbrunnen, Grindelwald, Broc, Grueyeres, Chur? And EuroRail selective pass will N>

Eurail Select will cover Broc, Gruyeres and Chur because those are served by Swiss Federal railways - the state railways which are a part of the Eurailpass scheme but would only give 25% discount on trains to Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald.

so actually there is little difference between the two types of passes for places you have outlined. Swiss Pass is though much cheaper per day than the Eurailpass and also gives free entry to 470+ Swiss attractions, probably including in Gruyeres to the castle though not sure - Eurail none.

viranpooja

PalenQ...thanks for clarifying that. I think in that case I will get the Swiss Travel Pass for 4 consecutive days. (unfortunately I called them and they will not give us a group discount but will give us free reservations so we can sit together on all our trains).

After the Bernina Express, we have looked into a private taxi transfer which charges about $119 per person to transfer us in a luxury taxi van from Tirano, Italy to Salzburg, Austria (because the train services are very long and still around $89 or more per person).

Once we get to Austria, we will get the point to point tickets. I saw on the Euro Rail website there is an Austrian pass as well. Is that beneficial?