Europe in Two Weeks, what is possible?

Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 12:39 PM
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Europe in Two Weeks, what is possible?

Hello everyone,

I'm planning my first trip to Europe with a friend for this upcoming summer.
I had previously posted a very over-ambitious itinerary, and have narrowed it down substantially.
The places we would like to see most are Rome, Cinque Terre (Specifically Riomaggiore and Vernazza), Paris, Madrid and hopefully a side trip for a day or two in Barcelona.

The main goals of the trip are not to spend days in museums or nights in bars, but to experience the culture, food, and famous sights in each place.
I'm a photographer who has been longing for the chance to photograph Europe.
We're both young professionals and don't know when our busy schedules would allow for another semi-long trip such as this in the future, and we figure if we are paying for airfare we might as well take advantage of Europe and try and see as much as we can.
We're open to both trains and planes, and have done some research and found reasonable pricing on both.
As for accommodations we have friends in a few of the cities, and plan to rent apartments or use airbnb.com for affordable places to stay.
I know there is the 3/4 rule, three days in a city, technically 4 with travel to and from, but is it possible to do any of these cities in 2/3?
Especially Madrid, we are just stopping there to see friends and don't have any major places we want to visit within the city, we would rather spend our time in Spain in Barcelona.

Secondly, I found this posting on Europe in two weeks:
http://escapedesigners.hubpages.com/...nder-two-weeks

But it doesn't seem very possible to me.
Along with everything stated above, do you think a trip like that is possible, or do we certainly need more time?
Do you think there is any way for us to squeeze in another city? (I hear Florence is fantastic, or Colmar, France).

Thanks so much!
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 12:54 PM
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Make a list, check it twice, include the days in order and how many days in each place, and incorporate the transport and how long it will take. Also, do some legwork on what the open jaw flight options are: e.g., into Madrid and out of Rome.
It's up to you how many days you spend in a city. Obviously you could spend a month in Rome and not see it all. The point is to give yourself enough time to relax and enjoy the trip without packing up and moving every other day. Also, moving adds to your budget. So, make a list, make sure the transport in between cities makes sense, and then post that here.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 01:03 PM
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The places we would like to see most are Rome, Cinque Terre (Specifically Riomaggiore and Vernazza), Paris, Madrid and hopefully a side trip for a day or two in Barcelona.>

OK a week in each country would still be rather rushed for all of that - should chose either Italy and Paris or Spain and Paris - 4 days in Paris and the rest in either Italy or Spain - just do not have enough time to do all - factoring in travel time between different locals.

Trains are the best way to visit cities like that - cities where cars are more and more a liability and the Cinque Terre where cars are outright banned from most towns. For lots of great info on trains in those countries check out these superb IMO sources - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com. You are not traveling enough on trains to make a railpass viable IMO - score discounted tickets for Italy at www.trenitalia.com - Italian Railways official site or www.renfe.com same for Spain or www.voyages-sncf.com for trains involving France and either country.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 01:05 PM
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Brilleigh - do you mean "what is possible" or what is desirable?

they can be very different.

i had high hopes when you started your itinerary that you were going for the latter, but it turns out you're going for the former [though that would still be a very tight fit for 2 weeks]

you're right that the itinerary in that website isn't really possibly - have you noticed how they tell you all the things to see around the proposed accommodation, and then don't give you time to go there?

Certainly no time to squeeze in anywhere else in the itinerary you propose, unless you're going for a month. Why only side trips from Barcelona? you've not allowed any time for seeing Barcelona itself, which is a bit weird, considering you're a photographer. [haven't you heard of Gaudi?]

how were you planning to get from the CT to Paris? your itinerary seems to me to be rather fragmented, and dotting all over Europe.

it can be really useful to break it down into days just to see how it would [not] work:

Day 1 - arrive Rome. spend day recovering from jetlag.
Day 2 - Rome
Day 3 - Rome
Day 4- train to CT [will take most of day]
Day 5 - CT
Day 6 - CT
Day 7 - CT to Paris. How?
Day 8 - Paris
Day 9 - Paris
Day 10 - fly to Madrid
Day 11 - Madrid
Day 12 - train to Barcelona
Day 13 - Barcelona
Day 14 - Barcelona
Day 15 - fly home.

yes of course, Florence is fantastic, as are Venice, Colmar, the Dolomites, Lake Como, Seville, Neuschwanstein, etc, etc. Europe is full of wonderful places and you can't see them all. so you just have to accept that and plan accordingly.

IMO the above seriously underchanges Rome and Paris. but only you know if you're prepared to put up with that for the sake of seeing your friends in Madrid and seeing Barcelona.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 01:27 PM
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Where did you find that "escapedesigners" site? More like exhaustion designers. Please don't take them seriously.

annhig's itinerary shows you that you need more time or fewer places. Two days for Rome or Paris is just silly. How do you expect to "experience" anything in that time? Drop a city or the CT, and it will still be rushed.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 01:42 PM
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>

If you're looking to run from city to city and take snapshots of the famous sights then your itinerary is fine.

If you're really a photographer you'll want to spend more time in each place to explore the many interesting sights that make for great photos.

An example of what I mean...in 2 days you can shoot tons of photos in Paris but will you have time to walk around a particular sight and choose a shot from many different angles to make it interesting? Sometime it's interesting to see and shoot the same location in the morning, afternoon, and night. This requires time. Will you have time to explore the small streets and look from all directions (seeing something as you approach is different than seeing the same thing as you recede). You can get some photos like this in 2 days but not an overview of Paris.

OMG - I looked at how much time you have - 2 weeks and you want to see and photograph Rome, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Cinque Terre and one other location?

You need to decide your criteria - choose one or the other.
1. Lots of locations
2. "experience the culture, food, and famous sights in each place"

You can't do both in 2 weeks unless #2 above includes the culture, food, and famous sights of railway stations and airports.

One last thought: >

You're going to a lot of places that is quite different than seeing as much as you can.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 01:43 PM
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That website you posted is beyond ridiculous. Plus, it really irks me when people who purport to be handing out travel advice can't even spell basic destinations like the Louvre and the Champs Elysées.

Your trip is still too ambitious. You absolutely shouldn't be contemplating adding any other destinations, but rather, cutting out another two or three.

I don't see Paris fitting into this trip at all. You're already covering entirely southern destinations - so stay there. Go to Nice for a day or two after CT or something, but don't even contemplate zooming from Italy up to Paris and then down to Spain. You do have a map of Europe, I hope?
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 01:58 PM
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Hi B,

Given what you have told us, I suggest

Fly into Venice (3 nights), train to Cinque Terre (3 nights), train to Florence (3 nights) visit Sienna, train to Rome (4 nights) visit Orvieto.

Plan 2
Fly into Rome for a week. Fly to Paris for a week.

Have a nice visit.

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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 02:02 PM
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"If you have the time and patience and you like art (the Louvre) is an absolute must see." What???

IMHO,if you are a human being and you find yourself in Paris,you should make the time, develop the patience, learn about art history and visit the Louvre.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 02:23 PM
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Thanks so much everyone.

The plan was fly into Rome and take the night train to Paris one of the days.
CT is definitely a hopeful highlight of the trip, but I know I would lose a day in travel because I'd like to go to Paris by way of night train from Rome, so We'd have to spend 4 hours on a train back to Rome on one of our Days in CT.
I was hoping to Fly into Rome for a few days, CT, Rome again for a few hours (God-willing the trains align) Night Train to Paris, Three days in Paris, I found a cheap flight from Paris to Madrid (I know that adds travel time), a Day in Madrid then a trip to Barcelona with friends.

As for the site, I knew when I saw it it was way over ambitious. I just wanted to check with you all and make sure.

And Adrienne, you're completely right, thank you for putting things back into perspective for me
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 02:29 PM
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>

PLEASE forget Paris on this trip. It makes NO sense. Overnight trains are hell, IME, and what will you gain? A glimpse of Paris...and then you zoom all the way south again. PLEASE consult a map and see why this is not the slightest bit sensible.

A DAY in Madrid? Not worth it, no matter who your friends are. Catch them next time. It's not exactly a short hike to Barcelona from Madrid (again, please....a map!)
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 02:49 PM
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Let's be more realistic with the itinerary you want and see if we can make most of it happen.

Rome
Cinque Terre
Paris
Madrid
Barcelona

Do not go back to Rome but take the night train from Cinque Terre to Paris. I don't understand going back to Rome if it takes 4 hours. I'm not advocating Paris on this trip but if you must go there and must take a night train then do it from Cinque Terre.

Meet your friends in Barcelona and cut out Madrid. Once you get to Barcelona you'll slap yourself on the head and wonder why you didn't schedule more time here; it's a photographer's dream.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 03:00 PM
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Looking at annhig's itinerary, it does not seem as awful to me as others have made it. It is not my travel style, but you are young and energetic, and have set your sights on an overview rather than a detailed visit of these places.

If you have any must-dos on your itinerary, DO verify if the opening hours on the few days you will be in that city. And since photography is your main interest, think carefully about how weather might affect your ability to photograph your musts if the weather is not cooperating during your visit.

It does seem silly to me to spend the time to travel back to Rome from the Cinque Terre in order to take the night train from Rome to Paris--too may hours doing nothing with so little time to spare. Following annhig's plan, from Cinque Terre, you could probably find a flight to Paris from Pisa, Florence, or Genoa.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 03:17 PM
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Here's a thought if you really want to fit this in:

Fly into Paris (not sure where you're coming from, but be sure to count in the time it takes to get to Europe. For example, from the West Coast U.S., we leave one day but arrive the following day) and fly out of Rome. Open Jaw ticket.

Day 1: Paris
Day 2: Paris
Day 3: Paris
Day 4: Fly to Madrid in AM, overnight Madrid.
Day 5: Train to Barcelona, overnight Barcelona.
Day 6: Barcelona
Day 7: Barcelona
Day 8: Fly to Pisa, train Riomaggiore. (this is a bit tricky - I don't think you can fly directly to Riomaggiore (?) so you'd need to fly nearby and get a train or bus to Riomaggiore)
Day 9: Riomaggiore (day trip to Vernazza).
Day 10: Riomaggiore
Day 11: Riomaggiore to Rome by train, overnight Rome.
Day 12: Rome
Day 13: Rome
Day 14: Fly home

I haven't been to Cinque Terre so don't know which town you would want to base yourself in. This is just an example of how you might be able to get this all in. Yes, it's better to take your time, but... it's possible to fit it all in. If you could find another week, for a three week trip, that would be even better - you could add more days to all of the major stops or possibly stop off in Florence on your way to Rome. Have fun planning.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 03:21 PM
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I would definitely take the night train from CT to Paris if it were possible, I was just unable to find one on the rail website.

I have a map of Europe, that's not the question. If I could I would forgo Paris and stop in Nice, but my travel partner is set on Paris.
I also wish I could forgo Madrid, but visiting them was the point of the trip, I may suggest however that we just meet them in Barcelona instead. Although the train is only 3 hours and would (hopefully) provide nice views of Spain on the way.

Does anyone have suggestions for other cities I should have included instead?
I hear Florence is great, but if I had the choice I would rather go out of Italy for a third city.

Thanks again!
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 03:30 PM
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You can go on an overnight train from Paris to Barcelona and forgo Madrid - have your friends meet you in Barcelona -- or go to Barcelona first and then Madrid and fly from Madrid to Italy.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 03:43 PM
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Thank you Sealonsf! You actually bring up a great point I wanted to address / ask opinions on.

What would be the best order to visit these cities in?
Hypothetically leaving on May 13th (From Chicago) to be in Europe by the 14th - Hoping to spend a birthday on the 27th somewhere that is not Paris or Madrid.
We're willing to fly open-jaw, and I may continue traveling for a week or so after my travel partner flies home.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 03:52 PM
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Best order? Really depends on you. I set out an example starting with Paris... I think that's an excellent entry into Europe. And below, the birthday would fall in Rome. (I can't help noticing that you don't seem so keen on Madrid - I happen to love Madrid - you might be surprised! )

14th: Paris
15th: Paris
16th: Paris
17th: Overnight train to Barcelona.
18th: Barcelona
19th: Barcelona
20th: Train to Madrid, one night in Madrid.
21st: Fly to Pisa or another nearby town, train/bus Riomaggiore.
22nd: Riomaggiore (day trip to Vernazza).
24th: Riomaggiore
25th: Riomaggiore to Rome by train, overnight Rome.
26th: Rome
27th: Rome
28th: Fly home ---- and, if you continue on your own you can spend more time in Italy - always a good idea.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 03:59 PM
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>

I found one so it exists. From La Spezia to Paris via Milan. Book on the Italian web site but you can view the schedule on the German site which is very easy to manipulate.

http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml
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Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 04:49 PM
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Hi I can understand as you only have 2 weeks you are trying to see as much as posible but hopefully you will have the opportunity to return to some of these places at a later date.Thus being said here is my intinery suggestion for you
Day 1 - arrive Rome.
Day 2 - Rome
Day 3 - Rome
Day 4- train to CT .
Day 5 - CT
Day 6 - CT
Day 7 - Fly to Madrid from Pisa (train from CT )
Day 8 - Madrid
Day 9 - Madrid
Day 10 -Train to Barcelona
Day 11 - Barcelona
Day 12 - Train to Paris
Day 13 - Paris
Day 14 - Paris
Day 15 - Paris fly home.
If you can extend your holidays I would include Florence between Rome and CT. You can also swap flying first to Madrid or Barcelona and then training to Paris.I stayed in Riomaggiore in the CT where B&B are the way to go.I also use booking.com for accommodation for variety and prices
I find the http://www.bahn.com/i/view/overseas/en/index.shtml very useful as well for all of European train travel.
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