Europe during Oktoberfest

Old Feb 28th, 2010, 03:19 PM
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Europe during Oktoberfest

I appreciate all of your patience and input in helping people plan trips. Nobody wants to go on a major trip, spend all that money only to find out you missed it; that must see placer setting. That being said, i would love to have your input as we continue to put this trip together.
40 y/o Son-In-Law and myself (young 65).
Leaving US on Air Canada to Toronto (tickets purchased through local travel agent).
ARR Dusseldorf 9/12 then P/U car (need input on best place to arrange or rent from, picking up in Dusseldorf Airport or?? on 9/12, dropping off at Munich Airport on 10/1 just prior to mid-morning flight).
9/12 Drive to and stay in Amsterdam or suggestions? 2 nights (9/12 & 9/13).
(suggestions for accommodations/food/sightseeing?). Will drive around this area, visit Rotterdam and ?????. (suggestions?)
9/14 and 9/15 Back to Dusseldorf as 2 night base (suggestions for lodging/food/ sightseeing?) Drive to towns around here during 2 day stay.
9/16 & 9/17 will base ourselves somewhere around Cochem. Where to stay around there? What to see?
9/18 Baden Baden overnight. Where to stay? Want to take half day up and half day down Rhine River trip. Trip descriptions and tickets from where?
9/19 Drive to Strasbourg France. Where to stay, what to see?
9/20 Drive to Freiburg (Spas?) Lodging?
9/21 On to Zurich or where would you suggest in that area for overnight? Lodging? What to see? Towns to explore?
9/22 Drive to Bern for overnight or on to Liechtenstein or???? Where to stay? What towns to visit?
9/23 Drive to and stay in Liechtenstein or nearby? Lodging? What to see?
9/24 Drive to Innsbruck, may stay in nearby Town of Hall, Lodging??
9/25 Drive to and maybe stay in Ramsau, tour Salzburg and surrounding area. Where to stay? See?
9/26 and 9/27 Drive to and stay in Stuttgart as 2 day base, attend Volksfest at night, etc. Drive to Rothenburg. Where to stay in Stuttgart or surrounding area?
9/28 & 9/29 Drive to and base selves for three nights in Augsburg.
Will do Oktoberfest by train from Augsburg first two nights and drive around to surrounding towns during the day. Suggested towns in area?
Need instructions on how, which one and where to catch train in Augsburg and get off in Munich to get to Oktoberfest grounds and same for return to Augsburg. What time do trains stop running from Augsburg to Munich and vice versa?
9/30 will tour Augsburg and surrounding towns, resting up and drying out for flight home from Munich on 10/1.
Likes: Old World flavor for lodging, under $100 US per night if possible.
Like to visit Old World Pubs and Eateries, soaking up the Bavarian flavors.
Like old towns, old buildings, castles, spas, the people (I'm German and by then i hope to speak enough to be able to get by).
Like old towns, cobblestone streets, historical buildings, museums not so much.
How can we get tickets to Oktoberfest tents for night of 9/28 & 9/29? Which tent is best for food and drink and entertainment, not too rowdy.
Where do we get on the Romantic Road and take it to where, towns to visit en-route?
Alternatives/deviations for planned route, cities, towns?
Thank you very much for your help!!!
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Old Feb 28th, 2010, 07:39 PM
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Ouch - that's a lot of moving around and a lot of 1 night stays. Almost no experienced European traveler will recommend 1 night stays except to catch a flight or connection. You have 8 in a row!

I won't comment on the variety of places you want to go, because you have your reasons for choosing to visit those places. I do think you should look into consolidating your overnights, taking day trips and foregoing a few places this time..

As you have routed it it your trip involves 24 HOURS of driving without any side trips.

Landing in DUS and then going to Amsterdam for 2 days before returning to Dussueldorf is puzzling. I would think that you might need to be in Dussueldorf on those days but you comment on driving to towns nearby. If you do not need ot be in Dussueldorf, there are places with more interesting sights between Amsterdam and Cochem, like Maastricht, Koeln, and Aachen.

For some place to stay on the Mosel, Cochem is a good choice. From there I would go straight to Strasbourg and stay for 3 nights. You can do Baden Baden and Freiburg in day trips - they are each only about 1 hour away.

Bern as a stop between Strasbourg and Zurich could work. It is a 4 hour drove, so 2 and 2 if you just stop during the day.

Baden Baden - Freiburg - Strasbourg - Bern - Innsbruck, Salzburg - Stuttgart is 15 hours driving - with 8 consecutive one night stops. You are cutting back on yourself by hundreds of kilometers to come back to Stuttgart and then you head back towards Augsburg and Munich again. I can' t even really get in to helping with the rest because it is something I would never even contemplate. The exhaustion and sense of the world rushing you by is something that makes me queasy.

In all honesty, I think something needs to give, either the Switzerland or Salzburg stretches, and you need some route realignment. If that makes sense to you come back with some alternatives and I'll chip in again.
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Old Feb 28th, 2010, 10:19 PM
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Have you looked at a map? Your itinerary makes no sense unless there's things you aren't telling us about why you *need* to be in specific places at specific times.

And driving immediately after a long haul flight is never a good idea even if in Canada you drive for several hours a day every weekend
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Old Mar 1st, 2010, 08:59 AM
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I agree with the other two answers - this is an aggressive itinerary. A few specific answers to help you:

Staying in Augsburg and commuting to Oktoberfest is a good idea - as is avoiding the weekend. All you need to do is buy a BayernTicket for 28 Euros - it's good for 5 people. You can take any regional train - look at bahn.de for details on the Laender Tickets (Bayern. Also, you cannot get a reservation for 2 people at Oktoberfest, but you won't need one. Tents open at 11:00 on weekdays - have lunch in one of them and them get yourself into a tent for the evening by 4:00 PM and you should be fine. It looks like there are trains every hour until midnight. The tents are really fun until about 8:30 PM - then everyone is drunk and it begins to get stupid - just plan on leaving by 9:00 and you'll get more than your share of fun!

The other comment is on Innsbruck - way over rated and not that interesting to me. Stay in Fuessen and see the castles - Hotel Ruchti is my favorite place to stay and eat.

In Ramsau there isn't much, but Berchtesgaden is close by. I think Hotel Watzmann might meet your price and desire for thick Bavarian.

Scott
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Old Mar 1st, 2010, 01:37 PM
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HI Aramis, Alan, and Scott.
When I plan trips, I always bite off more than I can chew and end up doing a lot of driving, or last minute changes. So, based on your cumulative input and advice, please comment on this itinerary.
9/12 land in Dusseldorf. P/U rental car (where would you suggest we rent one from?), drive to Maastricht.
9/12 to 9/16 Stay 4 nights in Maastricht and use as base for day trips. Which towns to explore from there? Would like to see Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, Koln, Bonn, ???.(Can you recommend some interesting lodging places (75-150 U.S. dollars), pubs/restaurants in Maastricht and surrounding area?)
9/16 to 9/20. Drive to and stay in Cochem or ???? for 4 nights. Use that as base to do day trips. Where would you stay? Eat? Places to see on day trips?
9/20 to 9/24 drive to and stay in Strasbourg for 4 nights. Use as base to take day trips. We want to do the spas in Freiburg, is it? Possibly Rhine River trip for a day (do we need to purchase tickets in advance)? Where to stay, eat? Towns and places to explore?
9/24 to 9/27 Stuttgart. take in Volksfest, Rothenburg, Dinkelsbuhl, ????? Place to stay, eat???
9/27 to 10/1 Augsburg. Day trips from there. Munich Oktoberfest on 9/28 & 9/29. Rest up on the 30th for flight home on 10/1. Your thoughts and suggestions for where to stay and lodging, eateries, in Ausburg?
Does this sound more doable? Changes you would make? Interesting places and sights to see? I appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Healthone
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Old Mar 1st, 2010, 02:35 PM
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I think the first part of your itinerary is still a bit odd.
If you plan to see Düsseldorf, staying there for one night after your transatlantic flight (also to get adjusted) is probably a one-nighter that makes sense.

Driving between Amsterdam or Cologne or Bonn has no real benefit compared to train travel. Chances are that you will need longer by car.

You could also devote more time to Amsterdam and/or the towns nearby. It's a very different landscape compared to what you will see along the Mosel or the upper Rhine. Again, there is no reason to have a car to see Gouda, Delft, or Haarlem when you decide to stay in Amsterdam.

Still not a really streamlined itinerary.
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Old Mar 1st, 2010, 05:26 PM
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Okay - if you are open to ideas.

Spend a couple of days in Dusseldorf and work off your jet lag. It is not the fairest of German cities and the Ruhr Valley is not the most scenic spot but there are cultural sights worth seeing if you don't want to move on after one night.

Take the train from Dusseldorf to Amsterdam and stay for 4 nights. Day trip on the train to Haarlem, Delft, Gouda, etc..

Take the train to Aachen (gotta see the cathedral) and pick up your rental (Germany pick Germany drop-off for no charge). Drive to Cochem (2 hrs)

Stay 3 -4 days in Cochem lazily travelling up or down the Mosel - day trip to Burg Eltz, Trier ( 1 hour), or even Luxembourg City (2 hours - a nice mini-state substitute for Liechtenstein).

Drive to Strasbourg (3 hours) and stop in Baden Baden on the way for your spa experience (not Freiburg). Stay 3-4 nights in Strasbourg and day trip to Freiburg, anywhere on the Alsatian wine route (Riquewihr, Ribeauville, Hunawihr, Bergheim, Colmar ( no more than about one hour each or in a "line").

Drive through the Black Forest from Strasbourg to Stuttgart. This will take more than 3 hours even though it looks like less because of the slow roads through the forest. Just enjoy the scenery and stop where you feel like it. Tuebingen is a nice old university town.

Do you Stuttgart stuff and fit in what day trips you can - Schwaebisch Hall, Rothenburg, Dinkelsbuehl. Rothenburg and Dinkelsbuehl are favourites of mine, each 1:30 hours, Schwaebisch Hall is less and can be seen on the way to either.

Then off to Augsburg - 1:45 from Stuttgart for your Oktoberfest base.

I think you are wise to leave Austria off for this trip. You will enjoy settling in somewhere for 3-4 days and it will energize you for whatever day trips you figure out. This is still a lot of driving but you can break it up into short blasts.

Beauty hockey game, eh?
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Old Mar 2nd, 2010, 05:36 AM
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Thanks,
Great advice again. I will bounce this off my SIL and revise again. We both love trains so if we can access enough by train, that would be fun.
More later,
Healthone
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Old Mar 3rd, 2010, 06:58 AM
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Hi again fro Healthone.
I need some more information from you all to continue planning for our September Oktoberfest.
We land in Dusseldorf, already bought tickets so unable to change.
1. Can we catch a train from Dusseldorf to Amsterdam? If so, how much? Where to buy tickets, where to board?
2. I f we want to take a boat trip, Rhine or Mosel, where to catch boat for a half or full day ride? How much? Where would you suggest we board and get off? Where do we buy tickets to reserve? Are there overnight accommodations?
If we train or boat to Koblenz or (your suggestion?)can we rent a car there? How much with insurance included per day?
Thanks,
Healthone
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Old Mar 3rd, 2010, 11:06 AM
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We very much enjoyed our stay at Hotel Haus Lipmann in Beilstein on the Mosel. They have a very nice restaurant overlooking the river. Beilstein is very tiny and quiet, and we found it the perfect place to relax with a nice glass of wine or two or ... when we returned to the hotel each night--we spent 3 nights.
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Old Mar 3rd, 2010, 04:17 PM
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For all your European rail needs;

http://www.bahn.de/i/view/GBR/en/index.shtml

You can catch a train right in the airport at DUS, ride 8 minutes to the Hauptbahnhof (Main Railway Station), and then switch to a non-stop to Amsterdam Centraal (2 hours).

You can buy them online at bahn.de but the cheap ones are only valid on the train selected. They can also be bought right at the station when you get there. There is a chance that there are no tickets left, but most people do purchase on a walk up basis. Catch the next train if you can't get on the first - they run that often (every 2 hours) and you can people watch at the station or dash out and go see some of Duesseldorf..

I will have to defer to someone with more experiences in German Rail ticket purchasing for better options.

Koblenz is a fair sized city - you can absolutely rent a car there. Prices vary depending on what you want - check Autoeurope, Europcar and all the major rental co's, web sites.
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Old Mar 4th, 2010, 12:01 PM
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Thanks Aramis,
I'll look into it,
Healthone
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Old Mar 5th, 2010, 06:55 AM
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Healthone, I don't know how much of a beer drinker you are or how much you know about Dusseldorf but staying in Dusseldorf is an opportunity to enjoy one of the worlds most unique and enjoyable beer experiences. I think it is definately worth a two night stay if you are so inclined. The atmosphere of the Dusseldorf Altstadt, especially at night, and the authentic Altbier brewpubs of Uerige, Fuchschen, Schlussel, and Schumacher are fantastic. Schlussel also is a very good restaurant by the way for traditional food.

Here is a nice guide of the beer scene in Dusseldorf:

http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/dusspubs.htm

The Dusseldorf Altstadt has been referred to by some as the world's longest bar. On a nice evening it is literally one of the most enjoyable and upbeat outdoor party atmosphere's I've ever experienced. You can walk from one Altbier pub to another (the aformentioned 4 are the best) and blue clad waiters will bring you tray after tray of Altbier glasses until you tell them to stop. The beer itself is terrific and is served in .3 liter glasses and served the traditional way (gravity poured out of an oak barrel). My personal favorites are Uerige, Schlussel, and Fuchschen in that order.

For lodging I recommend the Carat Hotel

http://www.carat-hotel-duesseldorf.de/welcome/index.php

This hotel is quite nice, not overly expensive considering the location, and is right on the doorstep of the Altstadt and Rhine river. They do have a parking garage right next door if you've got a car with you.
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Old Mar 6th, 2010, 01:00 PM
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Thanks Paul,Aramis and Markan,
Thanks for the input.
Question for Markan, would you suggest giving up going to Amsterdam to partake of the Pubs in Dusseldorf, i.e. stay there for day one and night after we land in Dusseldorf?
Beer? We're from Milwaukee so...
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Old Mar 6th, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Don't take offence Healthone, but Milwaukee beer is going to taste like fizzy water that had a few stalks of barley dragged through it after you get done with German beer.

The pub scene in downtown Duesseldorf may be great (I have never been), but passing on Amsterdam in order to do it seems severe. Do you have to pass on Amsterdam to stay one night in Duesseldorf?
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Old Mar 6th, 2010, 06:08 PM
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Hi all,
Would it be possible to River Cruise from Amsterdam (12th of September)to Koblenz, maybe 2-3 day trip with on-board sleeping accommodations? If that date works, how much for the trip. Doesn't have to be a huge fancy cruise ship. I checked some web sites for cruises but all too long and expensive.
Thanks,
Healthone
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Old Mar 8th, 2010, 04:39 PM
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Healthone, if it were me and I was landing in Dusseldorf then yes I would give up Amsterdam to stay the first day and night there. Now bear in mind I am a beer lover and in particular a German beer lover so it's a matter of priorities. Yours may be different then mine. But the Dusseldorf Altstadt is a great experience especially for a beer lover and I would rate it easily as one of the top 5 beer cities in the world.

In your original itinerary you had both Amsterdam and Dusseldorf in it so I'm not sure why you'd have to give up one to do the other. By the way, 1 night in Dusseldorf is adequate. You could easily hit the 4 brewpubs that you would want to hit in one evening since they are all very short walking distance to each other.

It just seems to be a shame if your flying into Dusseldorf to skip it altogether.
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Old Mar 8th, 2010, 04:54 PM
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Also I'm almost hesitant to add this in because you've got enough to juggle already. But since you asked the question:

"Alternatives/deviations for planned route, cities, towns?"

And you said you like:

"1. Old World flavor for lodging, under $100 US per night if possible.

2. Like to visit Old World Pubs and Eateries, soaking up the Bavarian flavors.

3. Like old towns, old buildings, castles, spas, the people (I'm German and by then i hope to speak enough to be able to get by).

4. Like old towns, cobblestone streets, historical buildings, museums not so much."

Your missing arguably the best city of them all in Germany based on the above criteria (except maybe the spas). I speak of Bamberg. Bamberg is as old world as it gets and has an old world beer and pub scene that is second to none. It's about 2-3 hours due north of Munich and would be a fantastic primer to Oktoberfest. It is the crown jewel of what I consider the greatest brewing region in the world (Upper Franconia) and it is like stepping back in time. The oldest brewpub/eatery dates back to the mid 1500's. The prices of hotels, beer, and food in Bamberg are astonishingly cheap considering the quality and the atmosphere.
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Old Mar 16th, 2010, 06:10 AM
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Thanks Markum,
We'll see if we can do a 2 night stay there.
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Old Mar 16th, 2010, 07:04 AM
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Bamberg is one of the foremost beer centers in Europe. And it is a UNESCO World Heritage site--one unusual item is that it has the burial sites of both a Pope and and Emporer. It has a wonderful Altstadt that is actually a living part of today's Bamberg, not a tourist enclave like Rothenburg o.d. Tauber (though RODT is definitely lovely and very photo-worthy).
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