naomirj

Hey Guys,

Planning a big trip to Europe from the end of October to the end of December. No work commitments so can extend my itinerary longer to accommodate for changes. Will be flying into London and likely out of Prague (have not booked flights yet so this can change). Hard to say what my budget will be as I will be saving for the whole year until I leave, but am planning to stay in hostels and possibly some couch surfing for most of the trip, and travel by train or cheap buses / flights (likely without a eurail pass as I will book all of my tickets in advance and will hopefully save money this way). The London, Amsterdam, Brugge and Paris portion of the trip will be with my partner, and the rest on my own. Now a bit about myself: I am a 21 year old female from Australia however definitely not planning to party whatsoever, am more into scenery and nature, as well as wandering aimlessly in beautiful cities, will visit must see museums but is not a huge must and don't want to be sick of them after 2 months, although am highly interested in WWII Nazi Germany's side of things and will go out of my way to visit things like auschwitz.I am aware it will be bordering on winter so have saved coastal destinations e.g. Cinque Terre, Amalfi Coast, Greece, Spain, Portugal for another trip. Am also hoping to balance the trip out with some small, cute towns. I will be doing quite a lot of day trips out of cities as I would prefer to leave my luggage in one home base rather than lugging it around everywhere, even if I am backtracking a bit. I have done LOTS of research and this is a final draft of my itinerary prior to booking flights so any last minute suggestions would be great! Particularly regarding adding or subtracting days in particular places or adding destinations in.

London: 5 nights. A day trip to the Cotswolds, will also visit Oxford or Cambridge and possibly Stonehenge.

Amsterdam: 3 nights

Brugge: 2 nights

Paris: 5 nights. Day trip to Versailles, mont st michel and potentially some Normandy sites and towns (would love to visit Rouen based on Pinterest pictures, haha!)

Strasbourg: 3 nights. Day trip to Colmar.

Lauterbrunnen: 3 nights. Possibly visit Wengen and Gimmelwald but not a must.

Annecy: 3 nights. Day trip to Mont Blanc.

Avignon: 4 nights. Use two days to visit Provence towns especially st remy, may do a Viator trip to do 3 towns in one day without hassle of public transport. Have chosen Avignon as most forum posters suggest this as a central point with lots of transport options if you are not hiring a car.

Nice: 3 nights. Must visit Eze! If time will see Monaco and Cannes but not a must.

Florence: 4 nights. Will use most days to visit Tuscan towns especially San gimignano, volterra, Siena, Lucca, montepulciano. May do this via a Viator trip. Am open to staying in Siena as a base instead with a day trip to Florence to have a less busy feel to come back to?

Rome: 4 nights

Venice: 4-5 nights as I am doing a day trip to Verona and potentially the dolomite region with a tour group - is this a good idea?

Munich: 4-5 nights as doing a few day trips around romantic road region and definitely dachau and Neuschwanstein Castle.

Salzburg: 3 nights. Day trip to Hallstatt.

Vienna: 3 nights

Budapest: 3 nights

Kraków: 3 nights. Day trip to auschwitz.

Prague: 5-6 nights. Day trip to creaky krumlov and Dresden are musts.

Fly home!

naomirj

Addit: have just added up the days and realise this is more like 9 weeks! I am fine with this!

Alec

You are going to Poland in December. While the recent winters have been mild, it can get very cold, with snow and all. I'd start with Poland and move south.

naomirj

@Alec: unfortunately going to Poland towards the end of the trip if I am flying out from Prague makes more sense than starting there, considering I am flying into London. I don't mind the cold as long as I am dressed for it, but do you think it will affect how much I enjoy Kraków? Thanks for your response.

Alec

Yes, I think so. Krakow is very much a walking town and cold winter with short daytime hours will affect your visit.

naomirj

@Alec: good point, now considering flying into Prague end of September, doing itinerary in reverse until Munich then have seen some cheap flights from Munich to London to meet partner for 16th October. Thanks!

nytraveler

Agree that I might do the trip in reverse so you re in the colder areas in Oct rather than Sept. There is never any guarantee of weather but the cities on or near the central european plain are much more likely to serious winter weather and snow than are the areas south of the Alps.

So would do Poland, Prague and Germany first, followed by Amsterdam, Belgium and France and then head south to the Riviera and Italy at the end. Don;t misunderstand - you can get cold/snow in Italy in Dec - but it 's a lot less likely then further north. (A friend of mine went to Venice at Christamas and out not 7 days got 5 with cold rain and one with snow. Not usual but not impossible either.

Also I know you said you want to do day trips from a central city which is a good idea - but it seems like you are doing way more day rips and way less city. IMHO in Paris proper I would want at least 3 full days(4 nights) and the add day rips on. Also some of your day trips are really just too long for that time of year. Remember that beside grey, dreary weather and cold/rain you will also have short daylight hours. It will be getting dark at 4:30 pm and you do';t have the lovely summer days when it's light until 9 to see the beauties of nature (which are also limited - bare trees, no flowers, grass brown and crunchy.

I would tend to start the trip in early Sept to get much more pleasant scenery and better weather. (Have you looked at the average temps and precips for your dates - and figured out what sort of clothing you will need?) Temps are generally way colder than Oz.

bilboburgler

Thoughts, daylight gets shorter towards the end and the nights get longer, you will need more entertainment in the evening towards the end, no wandering around in the dark.

I'd also check out country by country any festivals (esp local ones).

You can do Tuscany by public transport but,,,,, a car may be better. Try rome2rio to get ome ideas but then focus in on the detail to check theis errors.

Note that museums close on Mondays in a lot of places you want to go to (washing day?) (ah I see NYT got there before me)

I guess you've seen seat61.com for trani advice.

If Rouen is for lace interests, then Brugges is going to be a blast, look out the lace museum.

PalenQ

For all that train travel you may find a Eurail Youth Pass to be cheaper and easier than a string of discounted tickets - for folks under 26 - don't dismiss the pass because the Youthpasses are great deals - have you researched them - compare to discounted tickets which are train-specific, must be booked in stone weeks/months ahead and some sites are very frustrating to use say many (Italian site) - check these sources for lots of info on trains and passes - www.seat61.com- great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Overnight trains go everywhere and save on daytime travel time and save on the cost of a hostel - $30 or more nowadays often. Don't dismiss the youthpasses!

PalenQ

Take a look at Global Eurailpass Youth prices - about $50/day on flexipasses (valid for X days of unlimited travel spread over a 2-month period - you chose the days -need not be consecutive - $50 is about 40 euros a day for unlimited train travel in dozens of European countries - use the flexipass for your long train rides and then just buy local trains or stay in cities - you would be hard pressed to buy long-distance trains at 40 euros a day and then you can change trains, get off and on, etc and no need to book in concrete months in advance.

And a current special has if you buy a Eurail Global Pass you get a free Eurostar ticket between Paris and London or Brussels and v.v. and can buy a BritRail Youthpass at 50% off too.

and looking at all your destinations they are all best done by train except perhaps Budapest to Krakow and to Prague - but there are overnight trains on each route to take too - the ultimate fastest way to go without sacrificing daytime travel time- night trains can be fun for younger folk too.

anyway do not dismiss the pass just because the mantra these days is passes are a waste of money - they are in many cases but not in yours with dirt cheap youthpasses anyway. For EurailYouthpass prices: http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id5.html -prices are the same everywhere - set by the Eurail Commission I think. anyway compare to discounted tickets and again the pass in most countries lets you hop any train anytime in 2nd class.

naomirj

Thanks for your quick replies everyone!

@nytraveler: have thought more about it and will definitely fly into Prague and start with Poland, Germany etc and finish in Italy. I have tried to create the itinerary so that the cities with day trips have extra nights added, but I will definitely revise this and cut off any day trips that I could leave for another time, otherwise add some more time onto the particular city. Any suggestions re: which day trips I could give a miss or which cities to add extra time in?

@bilboburgler: thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully cutting out some day trips and starting in the colder places earlier will give me more daylight time. Also thinking I may be in Munich around Oktoberfest time if I reverse my itinerary!

@PalenQ: thanks for the info, will definitely reconsider the youth rail pass.

bilboburgler

just don't fall for the newbie's error. Oktoberfest is in .... September ..... and rooms are booked up for miles around..

For me I'd drop Munich and the castle that Disney copied as just being a complete waste of time, but for some reason Americans love going there, never understood why. Now if you said Hamburg, or Coln, or Magdeburg, or Dresden/Leipzig I might see the reason.

nytraveler

Normandy WWII tours and Mt St MIchel are both VERY long day trips - esp at that time of year. I would either drop one of them (Mt St Michel for preference) since neither are really doable by train. they require either very long bus tours from Paris or taking a train to nearby and then taking a bus (Mt St Michel) or bus/van tour from Bayeux.

Don;t bother with Monaco or Cannes - the hill towns are much more interesting.

Drop Neuschwanstein - it's just not really worth it unless you are a huge Diney fan. If you really want to see a Mad Ludwig Palace Herrenchiensee is far more interesting - or even Linderhof (a sort of wedding cake with an impressive grotto. But for palaces and Munich I would much prefer the Residenz (in the center of town) and Nyphenburg (in the suburbs - wonderful gardens if you're there early enough in the year).

PalenQ

Normandy WWII tours and Mt St MIchel are both VERY long day trips - esp at that time of year. I would either drop one of them (Mt St Michel for preference) since neither are really doable by train>

Both are easily done by train:

Paris to Bayeux about 2 hrs - take mini-bus tours to the nearby D-day beaches highlights like the cemetery at Colville-sur-Mer - easily done.

MSM is a longer day trip - take high-speed train to Rennes and hop waiting connecting buses that go right to the Mount. easily done. Spend half-day there and late afternoon train back to Paris via connecting bus to Rennes (buses meet three morning TGVs and three mid to late afternoon buses connect the Mount with the Rennes TGV station. www.voyages-sncf.com for details.

so no trains do not go smack right to those places but they are easily done if a longish.

naomirj

@bilboburgler: I definitely have no interest in being in Munich during Oktoberfest! However I had chosen it as a good base for a lot of other places I wanted to see such as the romantic road and dachau. I suppose if I were to skip Munich I could choose another Bavarian town as a base.. Am planning to go to Dresden as a day trip from Prague but looks as if it could be worth a couple nights stay too!

@nytraveler: the more I read about nice/French riviera I think I will skip it this time round. Mostly wanted to see the hilltop towns but I will be coming from Provence and have some other quaint towns on the itinerary. I think you're definitely right about dropping day trips may just spend whole time in Paris with potentially one nearby town visit, as Paris itself would definitely keep me occupied for the 6 days.. And am happy to drop Neuschwanstein for a different castle too. Will look into the others you suggested thanks

@PalenQ: great thanks for the transport info, will have to prioritise and choose maybe just one day trip