Eurail pass vs. ticket - sanity check

Old Feb 16th, 2015, 12:14 PM
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Eurail pass vs. ticket - sanity check

Hi all,

We are planning a two-week trip in June to Florence, Antibes, and Como, with 2-3 day trips from each of those three bases (including hopefully a day in Switzerland). We will be flying in and out of Milan. It will be me, my husband (both well over 25), a 15 year old niece, and 11 and 8 year old children.

Because we are traveling with children who have never traveled internationally before, and because my husband and I are veterans of spontaneous European travel on Eurail passes pre-children, we are hesitant to book point-to-point tickets in advance (even though we do understand that is usually the cheapest option).

That leaves passes or purchasing point-to-point when we get there. When I do the math, it seems that our best bet is either the Eurail pass or the France-Italy pass over my best estimate at point-to-point costs. (The France-Italy pass only has 10 travel days, which is probably enough, but then we'd have to pay for the Como-Locarno, Switzerland ticket if we decide to go, which might still be OK.) I know everyone swears by point-to-point tickets, but with the 11 and 8 year old getting to travel for free with our adult Eurail passes, plus the 15% discount for all 5 of us traveling together, I think the scales slightly tip in favor of the pass. I do realize that reservation fees are not included in Eurail passes. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something really obvious here and that I'm understanding the details correctly.

Also, if any of you have purchased passes, have you just gone directly through eurail.com or some other source? I've read enough horror stories about Rail Europe to know I don't want to use them.

Seasoned European train travelers, please weigh in before we drop a bunch of $ on trains!

Thanks in advance.
Kristie
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 12:51 PM
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Well, it looks like you've done your math and compared the pluses and minuses so I don't know that there's anything else to add. Maybe I could add that there is no need to book local trains and in France they are the TER trains. So if a lot of your trips might be on trains that don't require reservations make sure you've accounted for that in doing your cost comparison. If you're doing a lot of day trips on local trains and only taking a few long distance trains (that require advance ticket purchase for the cheapest prices) the passes might not be worth it.
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 01:27 PM
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Horror stories about RailEurope? I've missed that and I read a lot of travel forums. Those passes are priced the same no matter where you buy them, so just compare shipping costs or if you get somethign extra for free, that's all. The product is the same.

the only negative I've read about Raileruope, which is obvious, is that it is a travel agency, so if you buy individual rail tickets, the price is marked up over what you'd buy in person or from the country's own rail system website. But some types of tickets aren't as bad a deal as others. But some people find it easier to deal with a local company than buying tickets from a foreign website.

I have never bought a Eurail pass. I did buy a France Pass once many years ago, and I think I did buy it from Raileurope. You kind of have to buy those before you get there, and the prices are pretty standard, anyway. When I bought, I don't think there was a lot of choice as to where you could buy a France pass, anyway.
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 01:40 PM
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Thanks. I am continuing to dig into all of this, and I seem to keep flip-flopping on the benefits of pass vs. tickets.

I suppose if we decide to go the ticket route, another option might be to purchase the major trips (like Florence to Antibes, Antibes to Como) in advance to get a better price, then wing it on the rest.

I'm so confused.
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 01:50 PM
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I just want to make sure I'm not missing something

One of the reasons you will find many people telling you to use point to point tickets, particularly for travel in France, is that the reservations on some city pair segments will cost more than the price of a prepurchased ticket. Another consideration is that during summer months, many of the trains requiring reservations will have few to no seats available for pass riders. The few that are available usually must be booked well in advance taking away the flexibility that one might think he has with using a pass.

You might be OK with passes in Italy and Switzerland, I really could not say. But in France I would be very careful about travel with passes.
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 02:04 PM
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Thanks Sarastro. I do think I saw something re: this, which does make me think twice about the pass. More to consider...
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 02:26 PM
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I have always read not to buy tickets at RailEurope because they charge more.

Captaintrain.com is always recommended instead
https://www.capitainetrain.com/en
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 03:28 PM
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When comparing the prices of tickets, you should use the national rail sites, www.sncf.fr for France, www.sbb.ch for Switzerland, and www.trenitalia.com for Italy. Divide the cost of the pass by 10 (if it's a 10-day pass) to get the cost of one pass day. Then you should price your expected trips to see which would cost more than a pass day and which would cost less. You might find that it's cheaper to get a 5-day pass and pay for the other trips out of pocket.

You might want to consider getting just a French pass, because I can tell you right away that the trips you are considering in Italy would be considerably less expensive than the cost of a pass day, even if you buy the tickets at full price at the last minute.
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 06:13 PM
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Thanks for the help, all. We probably have a little more time to ponder all of this. Our trip is right after the train schedule changes in mid-June, so can I safely assume that by 60 days before that we should be able to see the June-December schedule and ticket prices? I'm just estimating with March dates right now.

bvlenci, I'm not seeing a France-only pass. I'll keep looking.
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 07:59 PM
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Without knowing your exact itinerary, there is no way to compare prices. Many trains around Como would be around 10€. You can buy tickets as cheap as 4.80€ from Como to Milan. Are you really going to the town of Como or are you going to somewhere else on Lago Como (such as Varenno or Bellagio)?

As for day trips from Florence, without stating what day trips, no way to compare again. Quite a few day trips around Florence are better served by bus, not train. Many day trips by train to towns nearby would be under 10€.

>>>I do realize that reservation fees are not included in Eurail passes.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 12:48 AM
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I have always read not to buy tickets at RailEurope because they charge more.

This has generally been my experience as well. Some years ago RailEurope was selling Eurostar tickets at prices below that offer elsewhere. It was a rare exception, no harm in checking with them however.

RailEurope does not always list entire train schedules and never lists low cost tickets such as PREMs, iDTGV tickets or Ouigo tickets. The go-to source for purchasing train tickets should be Captain Train or the issuing country´s own rail site.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 04:48 AM
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check these informative rail sites for more info on passes and regulr tickets- www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com. - I've bought many passes from Byron at the latter - will always answer questions - a Rail Europe agent but great personal service.

Keep in mind a Eurailpass would be first class - compare to the cost of first-class tickets it would be a good deal for flexibility, etc.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 09:36 AM
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Aside from the cost, the ease of having passes while trying to corral everyone will make the passes the clear winner to me.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 11:28 AM
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Here is the France pass:

http://www.raileurope.com/rail-ticke...ass/index.html

The single country passes, at least for France and Italy, allow you to choose 2nd class even if you're adults, which can save you considerably. I'm not saying it's a good buy for France, because I honestly don't know; I do know that no pass would be a good buy for the traveling you want to do in Italy, and the additional cost of a two-country pass wouldn't be worthwhile.

If you travel on trains where reservations are required or recommended, there is no ease at all in having a rail pass. In fact, you usually have to line up at a ticket window to get the reservations, whereas you can use a nice multilingual ticket machine to buy your tickets if you don't have a pass. Also, unless you're undecided about the travel times on reserved trains, you can buy all the tickets the first day. For unreserved trains, buying all the tickets at once is the best strategy unless you're not sure you'll really be making certain trips.

On most trains that have non-mandatory reservations, I wouldn't travel without one with a group of five people, unless you don't mind splitting up. I also find that when traveling without a reservation on trains that have them, I sometimes end up playing musical chairs, staying in one seat until the stop where the person with a reservation for it boards, and then looking for another seat, which I may have to vacate at the next stop. In some places, they have reserved cars and unreserved cars, which makes it a little easier, as long as the unreserved cars aren't packed.

In Italy, all trains are either 100% reserved or 0% reserved, so the problem doesn't pose itself.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 11:57 AM
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On most trains that have non-mandatory reservations, I wouldn't travel without one with a group of five people, unless you don't mind splitting up.>

In second class that is usually the case but often in first class IME of decades of using passes there more likely than not will be empty seats adjoining or near each other - but as bvience says it is a good idea to book seats if you all want to sit in a block - but even then often you will find first-class cars half empty - not true in Italy however where bvience is located or some other countries but for the most part yes.

I often take a train from Orleans to Paris and I have a first class pass - 2nd class is always SRO or almost but I've never ever seen only half the seats in first class occupied. This is true on many trains IME.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 12:16 PM
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There's a good reason why first class cars are often half empty. Nobody who lives here thinks they're worth the extra money. They're for Americans with rail passes and business men on expense accounts (but times being what they are, even the expense accounts now often won't pay for first class.)

In Italy, the reduced fares sell out quickly for second class, but not for first class. The result is that often the cost is the same for both classes. In that circumstance, I'll ride first class.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 01:39 PM
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>>>You might be OK with passes in Italy and Switzerland, I really could not say. But in France I would be very careful about travel with passes.>>the ease of having passes while trying to corral everyone will make the passes the clear winner to me.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 03:44 PM
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This is all very helpful...thanks so much!

A couple lingering questions I have that I'm wondering if anyone can clarify, as I feel like I've found conflicting info in my research:
- The train schedules for our June dates aren't yet posted. Can anyone tell me whether doing some test ticket purchases on italiarail.com or www.capitainetrain.com/en using March as an example is going to be comparable to ticket prices in the 2nd half of June (when we'll actually be there)? I'm assuming prices don't change that much, but perhaps I shouldn't assume that.
- I thought I found some info earlier on in my research that said, when you purchase point-to-point, the children (ages 11 and 8) would get discounted tickets of up to 50% in France and Italy, but would not be free. However, I'm now seeing on italiarail.com when I do some sample purchases that children can travel for free with adults. That would certainly change some of my cost estimates if indeed we can get free point-to-point tickets for our two younger children. Anyone know a definitive answer on this?

Thanks in advance!

Re: some specific comments...

Sarastro, I looked a little more into the reservation limits for pass holders in France. From what I can tell, that's more relevant on the more major French trains, especially those connecting to/from Paris or between regional hubs. We will be just sticking around the Nice/Antibes/Monaco area, so it doesn't appear that the reservation limits will hinder us if we have passes. I think. Someone please set me straight if they have firsthand experience to the contrary.

kybourbon, you are correct that it's been awhile since I've used a Eurail pass...15 years. It does appear that a lot has changed with passes since then. Thanks for the French Riviera pass info. I hadn't seen it yet.

bvlenci, thanks for the info on the French pass. It does appear to be overkill for what we need, as we'll be sticking pretty close to the Riviera (Antibes, Nice, Monaco, etc.).

PalenQ, thanks for the resources. Yes, I have been comparing pass prices to 1st class point-to-point tickets.


I swear to you I'm an educated, reasonably intelligent person, but this train stuff is making my head hurt. I guess that probably means there are pros and cons to both approaches.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 04:49 PM
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>>>Can anyone tell me whether doing some test ticket purchases on italiarail.com or www.capitainetrain.com/en using March as an example is going to be comparable to ticket prices in the 2nd half of June (when we'll actually be there)?>>We will be just sticking around the Nice/Antibes/Monaco area, so it doesn't appear that the reservation limits will hinder us if we have passes.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 05:15 PM
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Also check Thello trains (they don't accept rail passes) for Nice/Genoa (if you are heading to Florence) or Nice/Milan (if heading to Milan after Nice). Thello has started operating Marseilles/Nice/Genoa/Milan - 15€ promos. They are adding more runs late April. Nice trains.

https://www.thello.com/?iLangID=3
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