Eurail or point to point

Old Oct 14th, 2015, 12:36 PM
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Eurail or point to point

Confused as hell
Europe trip from mid dec till New Years
Rough Itinerary as follows
Rome-Florence(trip to Pisa and maybe other nearby towns)-Munich(trip to bamberg and rohtenburg and or neuschwanstein)- either Prague/ Paris or back to Rome
So far have only three fixed places that are Rome- Florence- and Munich
Places might be added in between if possible
Question is it a good idea to purchase a 4 country eurail which is on an additional 20% off promotion these days or is it better to buy point to point tickets for buses trains or air whatever is cheaper.
Secondly does eurail include inter city transportation? For example from Rome to Florence or from Munich to bamberg?
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Old Oct 14th, 2015, 01:01 PM
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Secondly does eurail include inter city transportation? For example from Rome to Florence or from Munich to bamberg?<

Yes it inlcudes inter city trains - the main value of it but generally does snot include inside city transit nor buses.

Eurail is over 25 is first class and that has its benefits IME of years of railing thru Europe so if wanting first class compare the pass to first class tickets - comparing to 2nd class is like comparing apples to oranges -

Many people today buy discounted tickets - in first as well as 2nd class - the drawbacks are those are sold in limited numbers and are train-specific - must be booked in stone - usually no changes nor refunds are given - and weeks/months in advance to be sure to get.

So if flexibility is key to you the pass may be great, especially if wanting first class travel.

But check regular full and discounted fares - www.trenitalia.com for trains in and involving Italy and www.bahn.de/en for trains in Germany and involving Germany and see how each adds up.

There is also an overnight train between Rome/ Florence/Venice and Munich the pass is good on for train fare but sleeping options are extra but you save a night in a hotel cost too.

Florence to Pisa is only a few euros ticket - buy that there and if with pass do not burn a day on that.

Munich to Rothenburg and Fussen (Mad Ludwig's Neuschwanstein Castle a few miles out of town by shuttle bus) can be done with the bargain Bavarian Pass - where for around 30 euros up to I think 5 people can travel all day on regional trains which do serve those cities - so no pass needed there - the Bavarian Ticket also comes in first class for a few extra euros I think.

So your only long trips are Florence to Munich and Munich to Rome or Paris or Prague - only factor those in when doing a price comparison - of course if you have a 5-day pass and are only using three days you could then use it for your Bavarian trips and save the cost of a Bavarian Ticket (and take much faster trains to Rothenburg as the Bavarian Ticket is good only on regional trains - Fussen is only served by regional trains from Munich however.

Great info on European trains: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com - latter site has great info on discounted tickets.

So I think if 2nd class is OK the pass would be more but if first class and wanting flexibility to chose which trains to take once there the pass may be better - but do the maths and see.

Italian trains charge a surcharge of 10 euros per train for railpasses - on top of using a day on a pass.

and as Florence to Munich is a long ride and Munich to Paris check cheap air fares as well - www.whichbudget.com and www.skyscanner.net are two sources to check for that as are Easy Jet.
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Old Oct 14th, 2015, 01:12 PM
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You really need to crunch the numbers to see if it's beneficial to get a pass. Once you figure out your itinerary, check prices (there are a lot of discounts on each country's rail site). In Italy, you can often get discounts cheaper than a day price of a pass. Plus, the passes don't include seat reservations which are mandatory on all of the faster trains in Italy (10€ each).

Florence/Pisa is served by regional trains. They are cheap (it's about 8€ one way) and there are no discounts offered for those trains and no seat reservations (often no class differences either on regional trains).

Trains between countries can have discounts, but with a pass you might have to pay a supplement. Check the requirement of supplements on the pass websites.
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Old Oct 14th, 2015, 01:21 PM
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Rome, Florence and Munich are very well possible within your two weeks.
I was pleasantly amazed by your mentioning Bamberg. A lovely city, not overcrowded by foreign tourists, which gives you the feeling that you're in Germany. For the same reasons Rothenburg and Neuschwanstein are in my not so humble opinion no good choices. You could base yourself in Würzburg, also a interesting city, from where Bamberg is just one hour away. Würzburg is also only 1,5 hrs from Frankfurt airport, from where you can have a flight back home.
I would almost advice you to skip Munich, which I find a slightly boring city, although they do have good museums. Others find it wonderful. And they'll have Christmas markets, which are not really my cup of tea, but for others it's almost a reason to go to Germany in this time of year.
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Old Oct 15th, 2015, 12:11 AM
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So I did a rough point to point cost and it's almost around $300.
Eurail pass with the discount is around $280 something roughly
The thing however is that because our itinerary is still not concrete there might be a a day or two extra to check out another city for eg Innsbruck from Florence or something so the eurail offers that flexibility.
However because the pass only has 5 days on it that means we would still have to buy some of the local bus or train tickets for shorter trips like Rome to Florence or Florence to Pisa as like PalenQ said its not worth to use up a travel day on such short distances.
Plus additional cost of reservations on trains added to it with the pass the travel expenses are coming out to be around $400 I think
Just wanna make sure I'm considering all the important factors in my calculations if I'm missing out anything please fill me in!
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Old Oct 15th, 2015, 01:59 AM
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OK, lets look at just one journey under the microscope, Rome to Florence.

$280 for a 5-day Eurail? That's €245 /5 = €49 per day for 1st class unlimited travel.

All high-speed trains in Italy carry a €10 passholder fee, so we're talking €49 + €10 = €59 to make one first class high-speed trip from Rome to Florence using a pass.

With me so far? Now, what does a point to point cost?

It varies, as all longer-distance trains in much of Europe now have variable dymanic airline-style pricing - cheap in advance, more expensive on the day.

You should always check prices direct with the operator, NOT with an agency in your home country who may not be able to access the cheapest fares, so in this case you'd go to www.trenitalia.com as they ru the trains. Put in Rome, put in Florence, and off you go...

If you book in advance and travel 2nd class, fares from Rome to Paris start at just €19, no refunds, no changes to travel plans. Yes, just €19!!!!

Assuming that's all you plan to do with your pass on one day, wow, €19 versus €59, that's a whopping 68% saving by using point to point and pre-booking a cheap budget train fare a month or two ahead, and going 2nd class.

But what about 1st class? That starts at €29 if you pre-book in the same way, so you can still enjoy 1st class with point to point advance-purchase and save a whopping 51% off the cost of using a pass.

But what if you demand spontaneity? Insist on flexibility? The ability to change your mind, go as the wind takes you? Now you can't pre-book, you'd have to buy the full-flex 'BASE' fare if you went with a point to point ticket.

The Base fare Rome-Florence is €44 in 2nd class, which is still cheaper than going 1st class with a pass, but the 1st class base fare is €63, making our €59 Eurail pass with reservation fee added all of €4 cheaper than point to point.

But for the pass to pay (just looking at this journey alone, on a per day basis) you HAVE to want to go 1st class and you HAVE to demand flexibility and be unwilling to commit in advance.

Now repeat for each leg of your trip....
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Old Oct 15th, 2015, 02:39 AM
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@Man_in_seat_61
Omg I was just going through your blog! Lolll thanks so much ur response made me understand all of this way better. If you don't mind can I email you any further queries I might have? I'm seriously so overwhlemed and going crazy planning all of this so I have millions of questions on my mind!
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Old Oct 15th, 2015, 11:57 AM
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But for the pass to pay (just looking at this journey alone, on a per day basis) you HAVE to want to go 1st class and you HAVE to demand flexibility and be unwilling to commit in advance.>

Yes just as I was saying - otherwise a pass will cost more if you pre-book and are fine with no changes allowed or no refunds usually - miss the train and you're out and have to buy a full-fare ticket.

Like Man in Seat 61 who once said here that he 'was an aficionado of first class - to me first class is much more relaxed and on the trip of a lifetime why pinch pennies? If going the discounted ticket route like Man in Seat 61 says first class is also available. Flexibility is the key question - booking those discounted tickets is often no walk in the park as some make out - the Italian site can caused lots of anguish getting it to actually work - you may spend hours at times but perseverance can yield deep discounts.

I'm seriously so overwhelmed and going crazy planning all of this so I have millions of questions on my mind!> One expert you can talk to is Byron at www.budgeteuropetravel.com - I've bought passes from him for years and he will IME always answer exertly questions even if not buying.
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Old Oct 15th, 2015, 12:53 PM
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It's pretty standard now to use the faster IC Bus trips from DB to travel to Prague and back from Germany.

If you do Paris/Prague, I'd suggest hitting Prague right after Munich, then returning to Germany for Bamberg and Rothenburg.

The sum of your low-cost options will probably be very low if you book soon. Some sample fares from December's offerings are below. For simplicity I've used Nuremberg as a base town in Northern Bavaria for Bamberg and Rothenburg (you could stay in N'berg and easily do day trips to both.) Prices are per person (assuming two traveling together.)

Rome-Florence €20-€30 (Trenitalia super economy fare)
Fly to MUC €47 (fly Air Dolomite, or DB saver fare)
Munich-Prague €24 (DB IC bus, saver fare)
Prague-Nuremberg €28 (DB IC bus, saver fare)
N'berg-Rothenburg-N'berg €9 (VGN Tagesticket Plus day pass)
N'berg-Bamberg-n'berg €9 (VGN day pass again)
N'berg-Paris - maybe €59 (DB Saver fare)

So you might do the whole thing for around €200.
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Old Oct 15th, 2015, 02:11 PM
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The Select pass would be for 5 days of first class travel if the Czech Republic was one of the countries (Fussganger lists 2nd class discounted prices I think) would be around $300 or about 350 euros or so - so yes it depends on whether you wish the significant benefits of first class and flexibility to chose trains once there. Now you have all the info - thanks to Fussgaenger and Man in Seat 61 to compare the pass too - keeping in mind first class fares are usually significantly higher than those given above.
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Old Oct 15th, 2015, 02:50 PM
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"The Select pass would be for 5 days of first class travel... around $300 or about 350 euros or so..."

Where are you fetching the info. and the amazing low prices, PalenQ? The selectpass is for 4 countries... not 5. 5 days will cost right around $415 each at eurail.com - and that's with the special 20% discount available now. The OP has 7+ days of travel in mind and would need to pay additionally for 2+ days of travel in a 5th country... right?
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 03:42 AM
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>>>I'm seriously so overwhlemed and going crazy planning all of this so I have millions of questions on my mind!
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 09:02 AM
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bourbon always pushes second class on trains - that's fine for someone riding all the time and not carrying much luggage - but there are significant benefits of first class and since is presenting ALL the options pushing something?

I suggest bourbon has never ridden in first class - 2nd class is fine but for the trip of a lifetime don't pinch pennies - recently someone posted they took a 2nd class train Venice to Florence and said next time they'd surely go first class. First class tickets are cost little more on a discounted basis than do 2nd class - if only a few euros it's a no-brainer but bourbon believes it seems even a euro extra is a waste of money.
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 10:01 AM
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testing
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 10:02 AM
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Where are you fetching the info. and the amazing low prices, PalenQ? The selectpass is for 4 countries... not 5. 5 days will cost right around $415 each at eurail.com - and that's with the special 20% discount available now. The OP has 7+ days of travel in mind and would need to pay additionally for 2+ days of travel in a 5th country... right?>

I got my prices from RailEurope for a 5-day Saver Ppass in Italy, Austria, Germany and Czech Republic and that is $317 p.p.

http://www.raileurope.com/rail-ticke...eak/index.html

I think there is no 5-country select pass anymore - for 5 countries I think you have to go to the Global Eurail Pass.

some of those 7 days like florence to Pisa are so cheap no reason to burn a day on a pass - in fact they only have a few long train trips but in first class at full price they in themselves could be more than the pass.
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 11:08 AM
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"I got my prices from RailEurope for a 5-day Saver Ppass in Italy, Austria, Germany and Czech Republic and that is $317 p.p.... I think there is no 5-country select pass anymore..."

Without the off-peak promo price, the 5-day select pass is €463 at Raileurope. When I go to the link you provided above with the off-peak promotion and hit "GET PRICE" at that page for those 4 countries, I get $372 (which is better than the site I checked) but NOT $317. Also, there is NO 5-country pass - just the 4-country pass I mentioned.

So how do you still come up with $317?

And since there's only a 4-country pass, to do the CZ Republic + France option, what country should be dropped and what trips should the OP pay for separately? With a 5-day pass that excludes CZ, nanwar could do Rome-Florence, Florence-Munich, Munich-Bamberg (via Austria) and Bamberg-Paris... and then use the 5th day for Rothenburg, I guess, then pay separately for the two trips that involve Prague, plus the Pisa trip... plus any mandatory reservation fees.

It's getting to be a lot of pluses on top of the 2-pass cost of €750 (which is what the discounted price seems to be now.) So the pass option will be pushing $850-$900+ for two, I estimate.

Is that roughly how you figure the rail pass option, PalenQ?
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 11:10 AM
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"...2-pass cost of €750..."
Sorry, that should be $750 in US dollars.
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 01:14 PM
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Ok so looks like point to point is better than eurail in my situation the only thing is first class kind looks tempting for long rides like Florence to Munich and Munich to Paris if I decide to do that. So if I'm not getting the eurail pass and I book point to point for these two long journeys and get 2nd class would it be reasonably comfortable or really really tiring and uncomfy?

Also all of your responses have been a lot of help so really thanks a lot!
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 02:14 PM
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Again discounted tickets often come in first-class too and 2nd class is not a cattle car - it will be fine - not as relaxing as first class where seats are bigger and fewer folks in each same-size train car so luggage storage could be more a challenge (board early!)

But 2nd class will be fine - but again check for discounted tickets in 1 st class too.
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Old Oct 16th, 2015, 02:20 PM
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Without the off-peak promo price, the 5-day select pass is €463 at Raileurope. When I go to the link you provided above with the off-peak promotion and hit "GET PRICE" at that page for those 4 countries, I get $372 (which is better than the site I checked) but NOT $317. Also, there is NO 5-country pass - just the 4-country pass I mentioned.>

that was the discount price - I'll check again but I did it twice and they are not going to both Prague and Paris I think - if they did then they would just buy the Munich-Prague ticket separately.

Options for First Class

Travelers: 2 Adults
Eurail Select Pass Off Peak
Countries: Austria, Italy, Germany, Czech Republic
Validity: 5 Days in 2 Months
Class of Service: First Class
Saver pass - price reflects 10-15% savings
Total: $634

$634 divided by 2 = $317 right? Go do it on the link I quoted - Saverpass for two people total price $634. Tell me what I did wrong?
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