EU Citizenship & the Schengen Visa
Oct 7th, 2015, 02:53 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EU Citizenship & the Schengen Visa
Hello all,
I am currently in Europe and have about 6 weeks left in the Schengen area. While in Italy, I wanted to inquire about getting my Italian citizenship since my grandfather is a citizen. After all the required documents were obtained, I was told I needed to live in Italy for 3 months to get full citizenship.
My question is: How can I live in Italy for 3 months if the limit is 90 days in the Schengen area? I understand that I could leave in 6 weeks, wait 3 months, then come back. However, travel expenses add up.
Any one have similar experiences?
Lola, USA
I am currently in Europe and have about 6 weeks left in the Schengen area. While in Italy, I wanted to inquire about getting my Italian citizenship since my grandfather is a citizen. After all the required documents were obtained, I was told I needed to live in Italy for 3 months to get full citizenship.
My question is: How can I live in Italy for 3 months if the limit is 90 days in the Schengen area? I understand that I could leave in 6 weeks, wait 3 months, then come back. However, travel expenses add up.
Any one have similar experiences?
Lola, USA
Oct 7th, 2015, 05:07 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OP is asking about Italian citizenship.
You need to sit down with Italian officials and find out what options you might have under current Italian law and also to double check your understanding of the rules -- not only of all that is entailed for you to be granted Italian citizenship, but also how long you would need to remain outside the Schengen zone, and whether you could apply for a long-stay or student visa at this point or later.
However, something that is unclear for everybody at this point is how much longer Schengen is going to be in effect, so your path to citizenship may get complicated or simplified by that.
You need to sit down with Italian officials and find out what options you might have under current Italian law and also to double check your understanding of the rules -- not only of all that is entailed for you to be granted Italian citizenship, but also how long you would need to remain outside the Schengen zone, and whether you could apply for a long-stay or student visa at this point or later.
However, something that is unclear for everybody at this point is how much longer Schengen is going to be in effect, so your path to citizenship may get complicated or simplified by that.
Oct 7th, 2015, 07:04 AM
#7
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,047
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speak to the officials and, if you reach a certain point, consult a lawyer (which is always a good idea when dealing with Italian authorities).
90 days are 3 months - but I understand you have spent already six weeks in Schengen countries other than Italy.
They require the three-month period to make sure that your wish to get the citizenship is meant seriously. If you tell them about travel expenses you show that you don't mean it too seriously. So be careful about that.
Have you checked the duties that are connected with citizenship? You may be too old for military service but what about taxation (taxation is tricky in Italy)? - Another reason for consulting a lawyer.
90 days are 3 months - but I understand you have spent already six weeks in Schengen countries other than Italy.
They require the three-month period to make sure that your wish to get the citizenship is meant seriously. If you tell them about travel expenses you show that you don't mean it too seriously. So be careful about that.
Have you checked the duties that are connected with citizenship? You may be too old for military service but what about taxation (taxation is tricky in Italy)? - Another reason for consulting a lawyer.
Oct 7th, 2015, 08:56 AM
#9
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree I don;t understand the cost issue. If you ar enot going to live there why would you apply for citizenship. And if you're going to live there it will obviously take a couple of trips to and fro to sort out everything at both ends.
Oct 7th, 2015, 10:24 AM
#10
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was told I needed to live in Italy for 3 months to get full citizenship
Who told you this? Do you have this in writing?
My experience of Italy is that verbal communication is not in itself sufficient. You need to ask for the source documentation - laws, decrees, ministerial interpretations etc. Your experience so far should indicate that the documentary process is very important.
traveller1959 - military service is no longer a requirement and has never been for the female sex as I presume is the case with the OP (Lola).
However, I do agree that you should consider the services of a lawyer (avvocato) specialized in this field. The US Embassy in Rome should be able to recommend a suitable law firm or specific lawyer. If not American (you do not actually specify your nationality), your embassy will help.
Taxation in Italy is not based upon nationality but exclusively upon residence, Italian source income and Italian assets. Generally, one is tax resident in Italy if present there for at least 183 days per annum. You are also subject to Italian taxes on certaing assets located in Italy - a house, for example. Also if you have Italian source income you will also suffer Italian taxes - say director's fees from an Italian resident company or winning the Italian Open (golf or tennis)!
Remember that even if you take up residence in Italy you will still be subject to US taxation (if you are a US national). This is a complex area which needs specialized advice as well as assistance to prepare the relevant federal tax returns.
Christina - having an Italian grandfather generally means that acquiring Italian nationality is a right rather than something similar to long term presence in Italy.
Agree with sandralist - you really need to understand what actually is required (see my opening comments) and what supplementary visa or whatever is opportune to meet the requirements.
sandralist - Schengen aside one major advantage of an Italian passport is that it will give Lola freedom to travel around Europe (and not just Schengen countries) without any restriction as well as reside in any European Union (EU) country, as well as acquire property in any EU country without restriction as well as many other rights which are generally not available to Americans.
You can even vote in Italian elections without paying any taxes. Representation WITHOUT taxation!
Who told you this? Do you have this in writing?
My experience of Italy is that verbal communication is not in itself sufficient. You need to ask for the source documentation - laws, decrees, ministerial interpretations etc. Your experience so far should indicate that the documentary process is very important.
traveller1959 - military service is no longer a requirement and has never been for the female sex as I presume is the case with the OP (Lola).
However, I do agree that you should consider the services of a lawyer (avvocato) specialized in this field. The US Embassy in Rome should be able to recommend a suitable law firm or specific lawyer. If not American (you do not actually specify your nationality), your embassy will help.
Taxation in Italy is not based upon nationality but exclusively upon residence, Italian source income and Italian assets. Generally, one is tax resident in Italy if present there for at least 183 days per annum. You are also subject to Italian taxes on certaing assets located in Italy - a house, for example. Also if you have Italian source income you will also suffer Italian taxes - say director's fees from an Italian resident company or winning the Italian Open (golf or tennis)!
Remember that even if you take up residence in Italy you will still be subject to US taxation (if you are a US national). This is a complex area which needs specialized advice as well as assistance to prepare the relevant federal tax returns.
Christina - having an Italian grandfather generally means that acquiring Italian nationality is a right rather than something similar to long term presence in Italy.
Agree with sandralist - you really need to understand what actually is required (see my opening comments) and what supplementary visa or whatever is opportune to meet the requirements.
sandralist - Schengen aside one major advantage of an Italian passport is that it will give Lola freedom to travel around Europe (and not just Schengen countries) without any restriction as well as reside in any European Union (EU) country, as well as acquire property in any EU country without restriction as well as many other rights which are generally not available to Americans.
You can even vote in Italian elections without paying any taxes. Representation WITHOUT taxation!
Oct 7th, 2015, 11:23 AM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not questioning the OP's desire to have an Italian passport. In fact, I am here to say to the OP that he or she doesn't owe an explanation to anybody as to why they want it, or why the 3 month requirement might be burdensome. Especially not Cristina or nytraveler, who are just... well ,never mind. It's nobody business but yours. You asked for specific info on a message board. Some good advice has been given -- mainly, you need to talk to people who know the law, not people who've appointed themselves the High School Hall Monitors of the Europe.
Oct 7th, 2015, 11:46 AM
#12
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sandralist - often you contribute excellent information but sometimes you add something which is off tangent.
What do you mean by "High School Hall Monitors of the Europe"?
This must refer to American contributors as the attribution is obviously not related to individuals from Europe (I have no idea what it means). Excluding Christina and nytraveller as well as myself and traveller1959 (both from Europe), who are you pointing your finger at?
What do you mean by "High School Hall Monitors of the Europe"?
This must refer to American contributors as the attribution is obviously not related to individuals from Europe (I have no idea what it means). Excluding Christina and nytraveller as well as myself and traveller1959 (both from Europe), who are you pointing your finger at?
Oct 7th, 2015, 01:20 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Italian nationality law is very complicated. You should definitely see an English-speaking Italian lawyer to be 100% sure of your facts. For example, having an Italian grandparent doesn't necessarily make you Italian or eligible for citizenship. It depends, among other things, on whether grandparent or parent ceased to be Italian on acquiring another citizenship prior to your birth.
Oct 7th, 2015, 01:41 PM
#14
The website of the Italian Consulate General in NYC has a great deal of information concerning applying for Italian citizenship. http://www.consnewyork.esteri.it/Tem...=NoModifyGuest
Oct 8th, 2015, 02:41 AM
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello all,
Thank you for responding. My question is not so much about citizenship, but rather about the fine associated with staying past the 90 day limit. I apologize, I should've clarified. I want to stay longer in the zone but worry about getting fined once I leave out of Italy.
I bring up citizenship because it is a process that I have begun. However, after reading some comments I am considering legal help and have also contacted the Italian consulate in Chicago.
It just seems a bit confusing that we are restricted to 90 days in the zone, yet a MINIMUM of 3 months living in Italy is required (or so said the official in Perugia) as part of the application process.
Thanks again for your responses.
Thank you for responding. My question is not so much about citizenship, but rather about the fine associated with staying past the 90 day limit. I apologize, I should've clarified. I want to stay longer in the zone but worry about getting fined once I leave out of Italy.
I bring up citizenship because it is a process that I have begun. However, after reading some comments I am considering legal help and have also contacted the Italian consulate in Chicago.
It just seems a bit confusing that we are restricted to 90 days in the zone, yet a MINIMUM of 3 months living in Italy is required (or so said the official in Perugia) as part of the application process.
Thanks again for your responses.
