Etiquette in France
May 5th, 2010, 04:55 AM
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Etiquette in France
Hello, I'm new to this website, and am writing to ask for help with etiquette in France.
I have been greatly anticipating my first trip to France, reading a number of books and websites. However, several things are confusing to me when it comes to etiquette.
1) I'm concerned that often I am going to be unintentionally rude. The webpage here at fodors.com titled "Customs and Etiquette in Paris" says that the people of Paris will not "maintain steady eye contact or smile."
It doesn't really say so, but the article seems to imply that to fit in, I should not smile or maintain eye contact.
But looking someone in the eye and smiling has worked as an international expression of friendliness everywhere else I've been in the world. It has been second nature to me for over 50 years, so it will be hard not to do.
So will it be rude if I do smile at people? Will it be rude to look them in the eye while speaking with them? Or am I misunderstanding what is meant by this?
Along the same vein, in the latest book by that famous traveling American seen on PBS, it says that in France, "...strolling down the street with a big grin on your face and saying hello to strangers is a sign of senility, not friendliness" (see pg. 926 of RS's "France 2010"). But all sources of info have said it is rude not to say "Bonjour" to strangers: restaurant wait staff, shop clerks, you should even say "Bonjour" to the entire bus-full of strangers when you board a bus.
This is confusing: I should say hello to some strangers, but shouldn't to others. I know I'm going to mess up!
I'm a reserved middle-aged woman raised to believe strongly in being polite, but now I'm very anxious about doing the wrong thing. A post by jdcairo at the "Customs and Etiquette in Paris" webpage said, "If you are rude to them, then expect that in return." There are so many ways that I'm going to be unknowingly rude, so now I feel like I'm doomed!
2) Also at the "Customs and Etiquette in Paris" webpage here at fodors.com it says "get used to being looked at". Do they mean "looked at" as in someone will simply look at me, then look away, or do they mean stared at? Strangers staring at me will make me uncomfortable. Can anyone suggest a way to get used to this?
3) Further down the same webpage, it says that exuberance and loud voices are considered rude. I agree that being overly loud in all those places mentioned (churches, museums, restaurants, etc) is rude to me too. But are they implying that what Americans consider a normal level of voice, the French consider loud?
I know we can try to speak more softly, but it will be hard not to be enthusiastic about the things we are experiencing - it's France, abounding with marvelous things! My husband, bless him, is a very exuberant person, big in stature and in voice, like the actor John Candy. I'm not sure how to ask him not to be himself.
Thank you in advance for any explanations, ideas or suggestions that you can offer.
I have been greatly anticipating my first trip to France, reading a number of books and websites. However, several things are confusing to me when it comes to etiquette.
1) I'm concerned that often I am going to be unintentionally rude. The webpage here at fodors.com titled "Customs and Etiquette in Paris" says that the people of Paris will not "maintain steady eye contact or smile."
It doesn't really say so, but the article seems to imply that to fit in, I should not smile or maintain eye contact.
But looking someone in the eye and smiling has worked as an international expression of friendliness everywhere else I've been in the world. It has been second nature to me for over 50 years, so it will be hard not to do.
So will it be rude if I do smile at people? Will it be rude to look them in the eye while speaking with them? Or am I misunderstanding what is meant by this?
Along the same vein, in the latest book by that famous traveling American seen on PBS, it says that in France, "...strolling down the street with a big grin on your face and saying hello to strangers is a sign of senility, not friendliness" (see pg. 926 of RS's "France 2010"). But all sources of info have said it is rude not to say "Bonjour" to strangers: restaurant wait staff, shop clerks, you should even say "Bonjour" to the entire bus-full of strangers when you board a bus.
This is confusing: I should say hello to some strangers, but shouldn't to others. I know I'm going to mess up!
I'm a reserved middle-aged woman raised to believe strongly in being polite, but now I'm very anxious about doing the wrong thing. A post by jdcairo at the "Customs and Etiquette in Paris" webpage said, "If you are rude to them, then expect that in return." There are so many ways that I'm going to be unknowingly rude, so now I feel like I'm doomed!
2) Also at the "Customs and Etiquette in Paris" webpage here at fodors.com it says "get used to being looked at". Do they mean "looked at" as in someone will simply look at me, then look away, or do they mean stared at? Strangers staring at me will make me uncomfortable. Can anyone suggest a way to get used to this?
3) Further down the same webpage, it says that exuberance and loud voices are considered rude. I agree that being overly loud in all those places mentioned (churches, museums, restaurants, etc) is rude to me too. But are they implying that what Americans consider a normal level of voice, the French consider loud?
I know we can try to speak more softly, but it will be hard not to be enthusiastic about the things we are experiencing - it's France, abounding with marvelous things! My husband, bless him, is a very exuberant person, big in stature and in voice, like the actor John Candy. I'm not sure how to ask him not to be himself.
Thank you in advance for any explanations, ideas or suggestions that you can offer.
May 5th, 2010, 05:04 AM
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Do say Bonjour when you enter a store or restaurant and Au revoir or Merci when you leave. otherwise, in my experience, the fact that you are aware of being polite will put you way ahead. Relax! have fun.
May 5th, 2010, 05:06 AM
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Welcome!
Two years ago my husband and I went to Paris for the first time. I really don't remember acting any differently there than I do in the US. We smiled and spoke to people just as we normally do here. We did not experience any imperious attitudes or withering glances (that we know of
) Just be yourself and have fun!
Two years ago my husband and I went to Paris for the first time. I really don't remember acting any differently there than I do in the US. We smiled and spoke to people just as we normally do here. We did not experience any imperious attitudes or withering glances (that we know of
) Just be yourself and have fun!
May 5th, 2010, 05:11 AM
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The French are generally more reserved AND more polite than Americans. It is indeed usual to say "Bonjour, Monsieur" and "Bonjour, Madame" or "Bonjour, Mesdames, Messieurs" at every opportunity, e.g. when you enter a store. Then, a smile is appropriate.
Otherwise, behave like you would behave in New York.
Otherwise, behave like you would behave in New York.
May 5th, 2010, 05:12 AM
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Don't worry.
I live in a place where a lot of tourists come to. Everybody expects them to be different from the locals and is used to it. There's absolutely no need to "blend in" as if you were a spy trying to infiltrate that place.
As long as you don't behave in a way that's clearly rude at home, you won't seriously offend anyone.
So smile as much as you want but don't be offended if someone doesn't smile back as you're used from home.
As for staring, it seems to be an European thing. Chalk it down to strange behaviour by the natives.
And if your husband is loud, so what. The absolutely worst thing that can happen is that someone thinks: "ah, Americans, they're often loud." That's not the end of the world or a good reason to spend your hollidays trying to whisper.
I live in a place where a lot of tourists come to. Everybody expects them to be different from the locals and is used to it. There's absolutely no need to "blend in" as if you were a spy trying to infiltrate that place.
As long as you don't behave in a way that's clearly rude at home, you won't seriously offend anyone.
So smile as much as you want but don't be offended if someone doesn't smile back as you're used from home.
As for staring, it seems to be an European thing. Chalk it down to strange behaviour by the natives.
And if your husband is loud, so what. The absolutely worst thing that can happen is that someone thinks: "ah, Americans, they're often loud." That's not the end of the world or a good reason to spend your hollidays trying to whisper.
May 5th, 2010, 05:14 AM
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I think the point is this: You can smile and maintain eye contact if you are comfortable doing so. However, do not expect French people to do the same, and don't think they are "unfriendly" if they behave this way. It is their custom to be more guarded with strangers. And of course this may not be true of every person you meet.
May 5th, 2010, 05:42 AM
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I'm all for good manners, so I applaud SonomaPinot's ambition to get things right. But remember this: if you mess up, no great harm is done. If you mess up big-time, you don't have to go back to the scene.
There is some difference between Paris and much of the rest of France, but that difference is of the sort to be expected between life in a major city and in a smaller community anywhere.
Parisians tend to be busy, often brusque, but they still observe the basic rules of "la politesse", and would prefer that you also did. You should open every engagement, even entering a shop, with "bonjour", but confine it to that; a smiling expression is okay, but a big broad smile might seem inane. A shop assistant is not likely to become a bosom buddy. When you leave, it is customary to say "au revoir; merci" but if you neglect to do so you won't be there for the exasperated sigh that might possibly ensue. It is not normal to greet strangers on a bus, and it is generally not usual to greet all and sundry in cafes and restaurants (a quiet "bonjour" to people at a table that is very close to yours is okay, but is not really required).
Most French people speak fairly quietly. Some Americans do not (there are regional differences). In general, the French do not like loud voices.
Outside Paris and other big cities, the style is a little more relaxed. La politesse is still preferred, but people may be prepared to engage more with you (more smiles, perhaps little bits of conversation if they speak English or you speak French). But people still generally keep a bit of distance. Don't expect to exchange life stories or see pictures of their children.
[I'm not a movie-goer, but my impression of John Candy is that he is exuberant without being excessively loud.]
There is some difference between Paris and much of the rest of France, but that difference is of the sort to be expected between life in a major city and in a smaller community anywhere.
Parisians tend to be busy, often brusque, but they still observe the basic rules of "la politesse", and would prefer that you also did. You should open every engagement, even entering a shop, with "bonjour", but confine it to that; a smiling expression is okay, but a big broad smile might seem inane. A shop assistant is not likely to become a bosom buddy. When you leave, it is customary to say "au revoir; merci" but if you neglect to do so you won't be there for the exasperated sigh that might possibly ensue. It is not normal to greet strangers on a bus, and it is generally not usual to greet all and sundry in cafes and restaurants (a quiet "bonjour" to people at a table that is very close to yours is okay, but is not really required).
Most French people speak fairly quietly. Some Americans do not (there are regional differences). In general, the French do not like loud voices.
Outside Paris and other big cities, the style is a little more relaxed. La politesse is still preferred, but people may be prepared to engage more with you (more smiles, perhaps little bits of conversation if they speak English or you speak French). But people still generally keep a bit of distance. Don't expect to exchange life stories or see pictures of their children.
[I'm not a movie-goer, but my impression of John Candy is that he is exuberant without being excessively loud.]
May 5th, 2010, 05:59 AM
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<<you should even say "Bonjour" to the entire bus-full of strangers when you board a bus.>>
Where did that come from? I've ridden buses in Paris and never seen anyone do that.
It's really simple and nothing to worry about. Do what Padraig and others wrote. "open every engagement, even entering a shop, with "bonjour", but confine it to that."
And say "au revoir" when you leave.
Go, relax and have a good time.
Where did that come from? I've ridden buses in Paris and never seen anyone do that.
It's really simple and nothing to worry about. Do what Padraig and others wrote. "open every engagement, even entering a shop, with "bonjour", but confine it to that."
And say "au revoir" when you leave.
Go, relax and have a good time.
May 5th, 2010, 06:01 AM
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I have been thinking what this "get used to being looked at" thing should mean.
I can imagine just one situation: a tourist is dressed completely inappropriately (I have seen an American lady in pyjamas in an art museum on the Cote d'Azur!!!) and is stared at because the people do not believe their eyes. Otherwise, "looking at other people" is not common behaviour in France or in any other European country. In fact, it is considered bad manners.
I can imagine just one situation: a tourist is dressed completely inappropriately (I have seen an American lady in pyjamas in an art museum on the Cote d'Azur!!!) and is stared at because the people do not believe their eyes. Otherwise, "looking at other people" is not common behaviour in France or in any other European country. In fact, it is considered bad manners.
May 5th, 2010, 06:08 AM
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I think being stared at is a common complaint by people from the UK or the US when in Germany and in other European countries without the people there being aware that their way of looking at others is considered staring.
Different perception according to different cultures.
Different perception according to different cultures.
May 5th, 2010, 06:12 AM
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To everyone - Sincere thanks for your helpful advice! I'll remember to always be polite, expect people to be reserved, and I'll also try not to be a "worrywart" about it.
To Luisah - I don't remember exactly which book or online article mentioned saying a general "bonjour" as one boards a bus. If I run across it again, I'll let you know.
To Luisah - I don't remember exactly which book or online article mentioned saying a general "bonjour" as one boards a bus. If I run across it again, I'll let you know.
May 5th, 2010, 06:17 AM
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Just to add to your confusion; I have been seated next to a dog on two occasions. (French dogs are better trained and have better table manners than most American children). When dining, the French keep both hands, not elbows, on the table. And usually, the wait staff will not give you "L'Addition" until you ask for it. Finally, the barest hint of "attitude" can be helpful.
May 5th, 2010, 06:35 AM
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<<you should even say "Bonjour" to the entire bus-full of strangers when you board a bus.>>
No, you don't need to greet the other passengers on the bus, but do say "Bonjour" to the bus driver when entering the bus at the front.
No, you don't need to greet the other passengers on the bus, but do say "Bonjour" to the bus driver when entering the bus at the front.
May 5th, 2010, 06:58 AM
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Hi Sonoma,
Isn't it amazing how much stress we can load up on when trying to "relax" LOL. Anyway like you I am about 3 weeks out from my first trip to Paris. My game plan? I've learned quite a few rudimentary phrases in France. I try to be a polite stranger where ever I go so saying Bonjour or Bonsoir will not be to radically different.
No way am I going to be able to "Blend in" for the simple fact I anticipate my jaw dropping at every new sight and gawking at windows, no way is anyone going to mistake me for other than what I will be, "A tourist".. I plan on having the time ofmy life.
E,
Isn't it amazing how much stress we can load up on when trying to "relax" LOL. Anyway like you I am about 3 weeks out from my first trip to Paris. My game plan? I've learned quite a few rudimentary phrases in France. I try to be a polite stranger where ever I go so saying Bonjour or Bonsoir will not be to radically different.
No way am I going to be able to "Blend in" for the simple fact I anticipate my jaw dropping at every new sight and gawking at windows, no way is anyone going to mistake me for other than what I will be, "A tourist".. I plan on having the time ofmy life.
E,
May 5th, 2010, 08:46 AM
#18
So far everyone has given good advice. The opportunity for error is small
Shopping
Looking out for queues
Noting the traffic in the street and fiting in (droit droit droit etc)
In restaurants, as has been said if asked to share a table say hello shyly to your fellow guests and wish people bonne appedi when their food comes. If on separate tables its not such a big thing but, here comes a story,
I was in a vegitarian burger bar in Eppernay and in came two skin heads, tattoed down their skin laughing and being noisy. We ordered our snack as did they and by chance sat very close together in an empty canteen room. The opportunity for stress was high. They wished us "have a nice meal" as did we and we chatted on this and that is a supportive way. Basically the French do not eat for fuel they eat for enjoyment and company
Shopping
Looking out for queues
Noting the traffic in the street and fiting in (droit droit droit etc)
In restaurants, as has been said if asked to share a table say hello shyly to your fellow guests and wish people bonne appedi when their food comes. If on separate tables its not such a big thing but, here comes a story,
I was in a vegitarian burger bar in Eppernay and in came two skin heads, tattoed down their skin laughing and being noisy. We ordered our snack as did they and by chance sat very close together in an empty canteen room. The opportunity for stress was high. They wished us "have a nice meal" as did we and we chatted on this and that is a supportive way. Basically the French do not eat for fuel they eat for enjoyment and company
May 5th, 2010, 08:55 AM
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It's certainly apropriate to smile and to make eye contact. However, prolonged eye contact is seen as staring (it is) or as having some specific intent (flirting, challenging etc). It's like the NYC subway - do NOT stare at people.
Also, I have noticed that some people from other parts of the country smile a lot - as in all the time - for no known purpose. And while you don't want to go around lookng grim - continual smiling would be seen as odd (as it is here). No one is that happy all the time - so either the smile is fake or the person is unbalanced.
This may simply be the differnece between behavior in a large city - where everything tends to be more impersonal than in a small town - where most people are friends or acquaintances.
Generally the bigger the city the more businesslike the behavior - pleasant and courteous, but not you instant best friend.
On th eother hand it is always polite to greet the shopkeeper when you enter - and to ask to have things shown to you rather than pull them from stacks of merchandise.
Also, I have noticed that some people from other parts of the country smile a lot - as in all the time - for no known purpose. And while you don't want to go around lookng grim - continual smiling would be seen as odd (as it is here). No one is that happy all the time - so either the smile is fake or the person is unbalanced.
This may simply be the differnece between behavior in a large city - where everything tends to be more impersonal than in a small town - where most people are friends or acquaintances.
Generally the bigger the city the more businesslike the behavior - pleasant and courteous, but not you instant best friend.
On th eother hand it is always polite to greet the shopkeeper when you enter - and to ask to have things shown to you rather than pull them from stacks of merchandise.
May 5th, 2010, 09:04 AM
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The last time I went for Paris, my friend and I were at the Air France gate at SFO, waiting to board, and there was a group of about six or seven young french people also waiting to board. Not only were the laughing and having a great time, but they were shouting at each other across the room.
So much for quiet refinement. One of the girls was also quite obese, and they all were wearing jeans, sandals or tennis shoes, and were over all quite ordinary. I really made a point of looking at all the french people because of all the postings about how the french are always empicably dressed, are thin, and speak in "whispers".
This group was not teenagers, but I'd say probably mostly in their 20's, but I don't judge age all that well and at my age, everyone looks young.
You don't need to obsess over your france visit. Just be polite, as I'm sure you are, and you'll be fine. If you screw up, and I have...just tell yourself you'll never see those people again anyway. I found that desole is a handy word to know, and I have used it more than once.
I used to obsess so much, that one time, I wouldn't enter a little shop because the woman in the store was on the phone and I was afraid to go in and not be able to say bonjour, or should I say bonjour anyway, but it didn't seem appropriate to interrupt her. I kind of hovered by the door, not knowing quite what to do. She probably thought I'd either lost my mind or was casin' the joint. LOL
So much for quiet refinement. One of the girls was also quite obese, and they all were wearing jeans, sandals or tennis shoes, and were over all quite ordinary. I really made a point of looking at all the french people because of all the postings about how the french are always empicably dressed, are thin, and speak in "whispers".
This group was not teenagers, but I'd say probably mostly in their 20's, but I don't judge age all that well and at my age, everyone looks young.
You don't need to obsess over your france visit. Just be polite, as I'm sure you are, and you'll be fine. If you screw up, and I have...just tell yourself you'll never see those people again anyway. I found that desole is a handy word to know, and I have used it more than once.
I used to obsess so much, that one time, I wouldn't enter a little shop because the woman in the store was on the phone and I was afraid to go in and not be able to say bonjour, or should I say bonjour anyway, but it didn't seem appropriate to interrupt her. I kind of hovered by the door, not knowing quite what to do. She probably thought I'd either lost my mind or was casin' the joint. LOL
