England/Scotland in January?

Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 11:57 AM
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England/Scotland in January?

Hi travelers!

My boyfriend and I (both 28 yrs old) are going to be traveling to the UK in late Dec/early January and have made a rough itinerary of places we'd like to see. I just spoke with a frequent UK-tourist and she said driving is nearly impossible in the winter and we should narrow down our list of places to visit. So far this is what we have:

-4 days/5 nights in London
Rent car and drive to:
-1 day at Chester Zoo, 1 night in Liverpool (have to visit the zoo for work)
-1 day/1 night in York
-2 days/ 2 nights in Lake District
-3 days/3 nights in Scottish Highlands (We thought 1 day/night in each of Ft. William, Inverness, & somewhere around Perth)
Return car in Edinburg:
-2 days/2 nights in Edinburg
Fly to London:
-1 day/1 night in London

I'm looking for input on: things to see at that time of year, things to skip that may be closed or boring in winter, and suggestions for alternative routes that may cut down our driving time (or other comparably priced traveling options).

My family is all from Scotland and this would be my first time visiting - so I would like to spend a little time there if possible.

Many thanks in advance!!
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 12:03 PM
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https://www.google.com/search?q=hogm...=1600&bih=1099

You may find Hogmanay in Edinburgh on New Year's Eve to be a blast - literally - folks you age will have a great time - one thing to point for.

Rural Highlands can get icy roads at higher climes I think though most of the U K would rarely get that cold. But you never know - they do have snow storms up there and even rarely in the south.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 12:25 PM
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I just spoke with a frequent UK-tourist and she said driving is nearly impossible in the winter and we should narrow down our list of places to visit>>

well, the latter statement may be true, but not necessarily because driving in the UK is nearly impossible in winter. How does your UK-experience friend think we manage to get about? of course, there are times when there are large amounts of snow and ice that affect transport but except in the Highlands and other high places like the mountains of Northern Wales and the Lakes, this is rarely a problem. That said, the smallest amount of snow can bring Cornwall [the far southwest] to a standstill but that's because we're not used to it.

as for your itinerary, you are not allowing long enough to get between places. any way, why drive to Chester? Get the train. but drive or train, you'll not get a full day at the zoo as it's going to take you at least half a day to get there.
and why not stay IN Chester, rather than going to Liverpool - your itinerary does not allow you to see anything of Liverpool anyway so why go there?

the same problem with York - you aren't going to get a day there as you have to get there first. Anyway, it would make more sense to go from Chester/L'pool straight to the Lakes as they are both on the west of England, then go on to Edinburgh.

The Highlands is the one place that is likely to be weather affected so you would be better off staying in one place rather than trying to move about, and again, you are not allowing yourselves any time for doing or seeing, especially when you remember that the day length is going to be very short in Scotland that time of year.

finally, you might like to think about getting the train back to London and travelling via York - if you still want to go there.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 12:31 PM
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Some of manage to drive here, day in, day out., without mishap.

In Scotland, at that time of year, the days will be short. Full daylight maybe 9.30am till 4pm.

If I were you, I'd definitely try to be in Edinburgh the 30th and 31st.

What do you like? What are you coming here for? (And where is your family from?)
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 12:55 PM
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, rather than going to Liverpool - your itinerary does not allow you to see anything of Liverpool anyway so why go there?>

Op says she/he has to go to Liverpool to see the zoo for business or study or whatever - it sounds like a must for her situation.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 03:35 PM
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I assume the two zoo is work related. Fine. But unfortunately the rest of your plan is pretty bad. Even in June w/ daylight til nearly 11pm it would be bad. But in late December almost impossible.

Edinburgh is fantabulous over New Years, but you will pay more than double the normal room rates - if budget is a consideration.

You plan on driving from London to Liverpool w/ a stop at Chester zoo, then zig across the country for a few hours in York. Then zag back across the country to the Lakes for about a day. Then drive for HOURS to the highlands.

Just not a good plan however one looks at it.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 04:58 PM
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I don't think your problem is the roads or even the weather - although it could be if you get a major storm - but that's very rare.

It's that you are just trying to stuff way too many places in too little time and not allowing any time for actually getting (train or car) from one place to another. Please look at viamichelin.com to get an idea of actual driving times - and then subtract that from the day - remembering the very limited daylight hours. And if I were you I wouldn't want to be driving on unfamiliar rural roads after dark, esp if this is the wrong side of the road for you.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 05:25 PM
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janisj as usual speaks sense - most of your time will be driving - on boring motorways to cover that kind of ground.

Start by paring - The Lake District at that time of year - at least you will not have any trouble finding accommodations!

Ditch the Lake District - stay in Chester - do Liverpool as a drive-by just going to the zoo.

Even the Scots Highlands may be especially grim at that time of year - very few hours of sunlight- IMO Highlands not a great idea at that time of year.

Rather put more time in Chester - a really really neat city and York for only a part of a day as previewed lets you see the Minster and little else in this really neat city with lots of nice sights besides the cathedral.

York is also a major detour from your Chester-Liverpool - Scotland path.

Cheers!
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 07:29 PM
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As annhig and janisj have said, your itinerary lacks focus. You really need to be more time specific. Traveling by train is usually faster than by car,and there are frequent trains from London to Chester and on to Liverpool. If only visiting cities train travel may be your best option. You can utilize both train/car depending on your travel plans.

Why the Lake District ? It would be far down on my list at that time of year. There are, of course, trains from Liverpool to York, but not direct. York is wonderful, but an afternoon may be too hurried. Why Perth, Inverness and Fort William? Your reasons for selecting these particular places will help us give you the best advice. All of these places have wonderful sightseeing opportunities nearby, but none are especially interesting by themselves. Remember that during the winter many places close early or will not even be open.

Here are a couple of websites to help in your planning.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

www.theaa.com/route-planner
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 07:43 PM
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Thanks all for the input.

Nightly budget goal is £65, we can spend a bit more some nights as long as there are other nights we can spend less, staying at hostels/Airbnb.

We're originating in San Diego, California (I am from Montana and am used to driving in snow & on mountainous roads). We have to spend NYE in London as my boyfriend's sister's band is playing in the New Years Day parade in London - the origin of our trip idea.

In terms of driving times - we calculated the stops to be between 2-3 hours driving time from each other from data on Google Maps. I take it that is not correct? Getting up early and driving 2 hours isn't necessarily foreign to us - California traffic can cause my daily commute to be 2 hours each way. But if Google maps isn't accounting for traffic or slower roads, that's probably the discrepancy.

We wanted to avoid most of the "touristy" sites and tour buses - not really our pace or interest. So any local suggestions for things not to miss, would be great! (i.e. visiting one of the other stone formations rather than Stonehenge.) Things of interest would be: castles, landscapes, weird/strange sites (paranormal, crime, etc.), and animal-related sites (for some reason my boyfriend is very interested in seeing Highland Cattle...I'm not sure why).

As it stands, the things we can't change are:

29 Dec - 2 Jan in London

4 Jan in Lake District (Stupidly booked a non-refundable hotel)

11 Jan flight from Edinburgh to London

12 Jan Leave London in the afternoon

I learned of the driving-difficulty after roughly planning our itinerary, which is why I'm seeking help. Thanks again!
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 07:49 PM
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janisj - I agree the plan needs help, do you have any suggestions on things to cut out?
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 09:03 PM
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Perspective - I am also a Californian but lived in the UK for a while and travel there several times a year. Can't post a long response right now as at this moment I'm in my London hotel room packing to fly home later this morning. At home I also jump in my car and take 2 or 3 hour drives on a whim. I live 100 miles from SF and will go there for lunch.

In the UK that simply isn't possible. In rural/scenic areas you will average about 35 mph - 40 if you're lucky. And in deepest winter, less.

In your OP you say 2 nights in the Lakes but now you say just Jan 4. if thats the case, I have NO idea what you'll do w/ a one-night booking in the Lake District especially if the weather us vile. That is sort of like you driving from SD up to Big Bear for one night. It is a large area, so specifically where are you booked?

This is just info to get you re-thinking? Gotta go for now, so others will help and I'll post more after I get home tomorrow night.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 10:30 PM
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"As it stands, the things we can't change are:"

I thought the focus of this trip was working at Chester Zoo?

Virtually all the things you say can't be changed certainly can be: you just need to write off foolish mistakes. Wasting money on four nights in the Lakes to avoid cancelling one is silly.

If the zoo is central, the ONLY sensible way of visiting it - especially in midwinter - is to get a train from London to Liverpool or Chester. Stay in one of them (Chester is surrounded by an 18th century rebuild of city walls first erected in the 1st century AD which feels cosy, but Liverpool's got far more, and far better, historic architecture and an infinitely greater range of hotels: over and around Xmas many offering amazing deals), and travel to the zoo by bus from central Chester (15 mins, every 5-10 mins) or by train/bus from central Liverpool (about an hour each way).

Then collect your car (after making sure you really have visited Liverpool properly) from Liverpool or Manchester airport. Manchester's slightly easier from central Chester, though there's a dense network of railway and bus connections to both from both cities. Both are on a dual carriageway system leading to the motorways: you then don't need to learn the hard way about driving on the proper side of the road.

Off you pop to a few, carefully chosen, destinations further north. Dump the car at Edinburgh airport.

And ask yourself what other nonsense this allegedly "frequent UK-tourist" has churned out lately.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2015, 10:49 PM
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I'm with Flanner on this one- it's all doable; the only real constraint is the daylight. I'd really like to understand your likes and dislikes so I can focus down on those for your trip
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Old Sep 3rd, 2015, 02:17 AM
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-1 day at Chester Zoo, 1 night in Liverpool (have to visit the zoo for work)>>

Pal - I assumed this meant Chester zoo as there isn't, so far as I'm aware, a zoo in Liverpool. so there is [probably] only one zoo to fit into the itinerary. [though I think that Edinburgh Zoo is also pretty good - DD went there on a field trip whilst doing her animal biology degree and loved it].
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Old Sep 3rd, 2015, 07:18 AM
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Oops annhig - now that i re-read it again for the third time you may be right - maybe their Beatles fans?
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Old Sep 3rd, 2015, 07:47 AM
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A couple comments: Just because you have driven mountain hwys in Montana doesn't mean hwys in the Highlands will be similar. My experience is that a major hwy in Montana, even in the middle of nowhere and climbing over a pass, will have at least 11' wide lanes and a huge shoulder, at least 8 ft. You can drive these hwys a bit tipsy, and texting, and still make it thru just fine with plenty of sightseeing energy left (not that I am recommending anyone do that). Scotland Highlands hwys will be much narrower and instead of a shoulder may have a stone wall or a curb (if you remember the "always leave yourself an out" advice from driver's ed, well, you can't in many situations there, will that stress you?). In other words, you have to give driving your full attention and 3 hours of that can be mentally exhausting, especially day after day. Americans are generally not used to giving much mental energy to driving except in congested traffic.

Also you should not assume that there will be any capability to sand, salt, or snowplow roads.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2015, 09:00 AM
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I'm sorry - but you're just not looking at the local conditions. You mention getting up early to cover more territory - but if it isn;t light until 8:30 am how early can you really get started?

Also - once you get off the major highways you can run into country roads that are less than 2 cars wide and have ditches on either side. In country areas we - or the opposing cars - have more than once had to back up to a wide spot so that we could pass.

In May or June with very long days this is fine and we always had plenty of time for our trips - but getting to see some places in more rural areas the most you can do is about 35 mph. And less if you run into livestock on the roads - once were stopped for 15 minutes while some random sheep that had escaped were rounded up.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2015, 10:19 AM
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In winter I would gravitate to cities not the countryside, especially way up north where you have such precious few hours of daylight - and often NO sunlight.

Liverpol could be a whole day stay - I found Manchester fascinating and Bath would be wonderful at any time of year.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2015, 11:20 AM
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Pal is right, Manchester is fascinating and a much more interesting city than Liverpool which trades nowadays on the fact that the Beatles came from there. Note that they all got out as soon as they could afford it.

With that in mind and accepting that you don't want to lose your Lake District money and taking the comments above into account (I wouldn't do the Highlands, how about:

4 days/5 nights in London
Rent car and drive to:

1 day at Chester Zoo
2 nights in Manchester
Drop York, too far across for a night
2 days/ 2 nights in Lake District

Return car in Edinburgh
3 days in Edinburgh
Fly to London:
3 days in London

Avoid driving in the Highlands in December/January. The weather will probably be awful and certainly cold. Not much will be open. York is just too far across to stay only one night and then traverse across to the Lakes. Enjoy Edinburgh in a relaxed way and take a well timed flight back down to London.
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