Terry

My family and I ages 13-64 are leaving for England on May 30th. Any suggestions on the following itinerary: <BR>Arrive London Gatwik and rent car. Drive to Stonehenge and Salisbury and 2 nights in Bath. Drive through Cotswolds to Conwy, North Wales, for 3 nights. Do castle loop in North Wales. Drive to Chester and continue to York for 3 nights. Drive to Warwick Castle and overnight on way to Blenheim Palace, Oxford. Continue to London Heathrow to drop car. Tube to hotel near Victoria Station for 5 nights. Total trip 14 nights. Thanks for any suggestions.

Beth Anderson

Hi, <BR> <BR>re: Wales. While you are there, I would highly recommend going to Llanberis. There is a very old railway there, and the little train will take you to the top of the mountain. (can't remember the name of it, but WOW is it beautiful. not the mention the drive to Llanberis is lovely. leave from Betwys-y-Coed - or even stay there beforehand.) <BR> <BR>If you are going to see Warwick, I would make a stop in Coventry - there is a lovely old (bombed out) cathedral there. and, Stratford on Avon is very close to that too. <BR> <BR>I stayed at various beautiful B&Bs along the way - I don't have names on me, but I got them from a Fodor's B&B book of England Scotland and Wales. (if it is out of print or you cannot find it, let me know & I will get names & numbers for you.) <BR> <BR>good luck!

Terry

Thanks for the tips, Beth.

lydia

If it's not too late!I am from North Wales.Don't spend your 3 nights in Conway.Spend 1 there and the next in Betwys-y-coed itself and take the train up Snowdon from Llanberis as advised in previous note. There is also a huge hydroelectric scheme that is fun to visit.Drive on to Caernarvon (for the castle) and down to Harlech if you want visiting the pretty and unusual Italian village of Portmerion, that was used as the setting for the Prisoner t.v. series.It's a must.Go to the island of Anglesey and to Beaumaris where one of the lovely of all castles is. <BR>Warwick castle is my favourite castle in the U.K. <BR>The travel lodges, part of the fortes group are a good bargain buy.Try them out on the net at travelodge.uk.com( I think!)I can email you it when I look it up.

joe

Two things... <BR> <BR>If you're going to Wales and want to get away from some of the more 'touristy' places I recommend a small village called 'Blina Festiniog', its situated in this small valley surrounded by the green hills where sheep freely roam the streets. There are a number of quaint little pubs and the locals are all very friendly though the majority speak Welsh.. you'll have no problem using english though. There is also a small steam train that goes through the hills and around the old slate quarries. Its a very nice little spot. <BR> <BR>Also, if you're going 'through' Chester I would recommend stopping there, for at the very least half the day. Its one of the oldest towns in Europe and still retains the walls built by the Romans. And I mean quite literally, the walls surround the city completely and aren't just like a crumbling pile like parts of Hadrians wall etc. The remnants of an apatheatre exists in the town as well. Aside from the walls the town itself is very old with old victorian houses/frontages and a section of the town remains cobbled and cut off to vehicle traffic. There is also the 'rows' the shops and boutiques that are highlighted in most brochures. Eats range from your standard fast-food to traditional english pubs so there is something for the whole family. <BR> <BR>Enjoy your trip!

Beth Anderson

<BR>Terry, <BR> <BR>Beth again. I am actually HOME and I have my BOOKS with me. <BR> <BR>Glad to hear a native agrees with my Wales assessment! it is SO PRETTY there. I really loved staying in Betwys-y-Coed. There is a cute B&B (not in my book) which is near the old church - right up the hill. you will know what I mean, this church is well known. <BR> <BR>My time there: I got up quite early the next morning (on the road before 730 AM, after a nice breakfast) and drove up to Llanberis. It was a brisk, crisp morning. You climb climb climb up into the mountains - the atmosphere is magical! foggy, with bits of sunshine peeking out in spots (this turned out to be a nice day, although nippy at the start). I even had my drive interrupted by sheep/goats in the road! Once I got there I took the train up to the top of Snowdon (thanks Lydia) and hiked down. If you all are able, I would say go for it - the hike, while a workout, is gorgeous and you have more time to drink in the wonderful scenery! Some of my favorite photos are from that hike - and I have even hiked in the Alps!! <BR> <BR>OK, I am looking at my B&B book... I actually penned in the info into the Wales section. if the number is the same, I believe it is 0690-710-447. I don't know if the area codes or whatever they are called there, have changed. This little town (Betwys) also has a lot of shops, and artisans. I bought some nice pottery and water color paintings there (several as a matter of fact). Another nice thing to do - there are several woollen mills nearby (you'll have to stop at the TI for info). you can get blankets, table linens, patterns, cloth (tweed/wool/plaid) and of course YARN at a very reasonable price at these places. <BR> <BR>re: Warwick area. I stayed at the Old Rectory, in Sherbourne. This is very close to Stratford on Avon as well as Warwick Castle and Coventry. I spent one day in Stratford and another in Coventry/Warwick. Very easily accessible to all. The number there is 0926-624-562. (you might have to drop the 0 for these calls). While you are staying there, go for a little walk down the lane this B&B is on. there is a lovely old church next to a little lake - so picturesque! you might even want to give this two nights if you can. <BR> <BR>do not be afraid to get off the main roads and explore. get a GOOD map, like a Michelin atlas or the A-Z atlas they sell over there. (a spiral bound one is the best) <BR> <BR>also, you might want to do Cotswolds (Warwick, etc.) BEFORE Wales - that is what I did and it is a lot less driving about. You mentioned York and back to Cotswolds - too much driving back and forth. after Wales, head on to York. Since you will be in York for three days, you can drive "Herriot Country" - very nice! stop at the TI and get a little booklet/map which outlines the drive. You will see a lot of rural, picturesque sights. Near York, I would stay at the "Old Farmhouse" in nearby Raskelf. beautiful! Their number is 0347-821-971. <BR> <BR>Good luck! Keep me posted! Let me know if you did any of the above, and how it turned out! <BR> <BR>Beth

Terry

Thanks for the info, Beth. I'll post my trip on Fodors when I get back mid-June.

Emily

First, leave yourself twice as much time to drive if you've never driven in England before. We've done it twice and it can prove nerve racking. Major A roads are usually no more than two lane highways that wind through tiny villages with cars parked in the middle of the highway lane. Locals have a tendency to drive 70 mph and you never know what's around the next turn because they build hedges right up to the road (no shoulders) to block sound. Allow yourself to be the slowest car on the road and don't try driving at night. The roundabouts take only a little getting use to but they'regreat for going round again if you don't know which exit to take. The signs never say 'north' or 'south'-they only tell you the next town so have an assigned navagator. Roundabouts mean you often come to a complete stop on an A or B road every 10 miles so that adds to the time. After about a week of driving, we had it 'sussed'. <BR>In Bath, consider staying at the Marlborough House B&B. It's one of many B&Bs on Marlborough just down from the Royal Cresent, but it's run by an extremely friendly and helpful northern California couple. The rooms were really gorgeous with four poster canopy beds (some with or without bath)and it's in walking distance to the main parts of town. <BR>Our hosts recommended several restaurants and all were well worth it, but perhaps the best food was at the Walrus & the Carpenter on Barton near the theater. Very ecclectic little place with plenty of options for everyone. It felt very much like a San Fransico kind of restaurant.

Lori

As the last poster said allow twice as much time for driving as you think you'll need. Roads are narrow, and it is impossible to "make time". Depending upon where you flying from (length of flight) jet lag can be a factor so you may not be in great shape to take off driving from Gatwick upon arrival. Personally I recommend staying overnight someplace close to the a/p and going on the next day ... a lot less chance of having an accident when you are rested. I also recommend assigning one person to do the driving and not switching back and forth (if you are not used to driving on the left). It is simply easier and less stressful. I would not attempt the tube with luggage upon return to Heathrow. You can make arranements for a driver service to pick you up and take you into town. It's well worth it - we always do it. Unless you have minimal luggage it is not easy taking it on the tube. We were in London in April and many escalators were out of service (they were closed for failing to pass safety checks). We watched people struggling with huge bags and it looked like the least possible amount of fun!! <BR> <BR>

Julian

Your itinerary is a bit illogical. I would suggest the following changes: <BR> <BR>Drive to Stonehenge and Salisbury and 2 nights in Bath (WHY 2 NIGHTS IN BATH?). Drive through Cotswolds to (MOVE THE WARWICK/ BLENHEIM SECTION TO HERE AS YOU WILL GO WITHIN STRIKING DISTANCE OF THEM ON THE WAY UP THROUGH THE COTSWOLDS). Conwy, North Wales, for 3 nights. Do castle loop in North Wales. (THE ROADS IN WALES ARE CRAP. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE HOW LONG THIS WILL TAKE). Drive to Chester and continue to York for 3 nights. Continue to London Heathrow to drop car.

Terry

Well I guess we'll have to stay to the motorways; there's no way my wife can drive slow. Julian apparently doesn't care for Bath. We'll be there 2 nights, but only have 1 day to see anything and some people say that's not enough. I know we're going close to Warwick/Blenheim after Bath, but we'll also be close coming back from York to London, so that will break up the long drive. Will try the Walrus and Carpenter Restaurant in Bath, thanks. Still looking for more advice.

Mark

Hi ... <BR>Don't stick to Motorways while in England ... otherwise you'll never see anything ... just be aware that roads in England are NOT straight, they twist & turn !! Not many places have hedges right upto the road .... I suspect that thoses places are in villages, where you should only be driving at 30mph anyway. Either that or they are little country lanes ... <BR> <BR>Mark

Mark

Hi ... <BR> <BR>Me again .... <BR> <BR>If your thinking of going to Conway, then I suggest that you drive up the M6 to near LIverpool & then cut along the main A road to Conway ... it'll be much faster .. can't remember the name of the A road, so I'll look it up tonight. Trying to drive through the middle of Wales from Cardiff will take for ever ... <BR> <BR>As to someone who suggested that you stay near the airport when you arrive ... well to be honest that seems a bit of a waste ... assuming your arriving in the morning ... most flights from the USA arrive between 6AM & 10AM ... allowing 2 hours for customs, you could drive down the M4 to Bath, only a couple of hours away & start your holiday the next day. <BR>Hope that helps ... <BR> <BR>mark

Beth Anderson

Hi, <BR> <BR>I agree, do not limit yourself to the motorways. I mainly took the A roads (with a few exceptions) and I think I saw a lot more countryside that way. When I was on the motorways I did not see much of anything - besides, if you take the smaller roads you might have more reasons to stop & get out and explore... <BR> <BR>

Mark

Hi .... <BR> <BR>Wow ... three posts in 1 day ... <BR> <BR>Driving in England isn't difficult, but it does take longer than the USA. I have driven in the rush hour in Boston & that is far harder than driving in England ... <BR> <BR>The only problem you have is that it is likely you will be driving a manual gear, whereas most American's are used to driving an automatic ... I suspect that will be harder than driving on the left. <BR> <BR>Things to note: <BR>1. When turning down a side street make sure you are on the correct side of the road (I have done this in the US ... it's a bit worrying when all the traffic is straight towards you !!) <BR>2. You can't turn left at a red light .. even if there is NO traffic around. <BR>3. Be careful at roundabouts ... people tend to drive straight across them, instead of driving round them (you'll see what I mean when you get here). Anyone coming from your left has the right of way over you, even if they are NOT on the roundabout. Most American's do have problems with roundabouts because they are not in large quantities over there. They are easy to use ... just be aware of your surroundings ... <BR>4. Have 2 drivers ... & tell the hire company BEFORE you hire the car ... I suspect that is cheaper for you to do this in the USA. It is illegal for anyone to drive without car insurance, so if you only had 1 named driver on the car insurance & they got ill (hope not), you would be stuffed !!! Also it gives the driver a rest if required. <BR>5. Again ... allow plenty of time for driving ... off the motorways, the roads while in decent condition will be busy <BR>Have a great holiday ... if you want any info then please e-mail me. <BR>Mark <BR>

gb

We did a similiar trip two years ago. We did stay at Travelodges. They were great fro families because of room price versus per person price. And the travelodge near Salisbury gave us a newspaper that had discounts for all Travel lodges. Also, when you stop at a gas station, look for the magnetic "L" for Learner and place it on your car. Keeps the honking down. We did not find driving on the left for the first time that difficult. It seemed it was worse for the passenger than the driver. <BR>We visited Stonehenge and Salisbury late in the day, which was great because the crowds were low. Visited Bath in a half a day. Contrary to many, we did not enjoy Bath that much. Took the motorway to Tinturn Abbey near Chepstow, then up to Conway.I agree-you don't need three nights in Conway. We stayed two nights and visited many of the places listed above. We didn't find the roads or the traffic difficult or too slow. Then, we went to Chester. Only need a short time there unless you are shopping. Historic sights were few, but every tour bus in England stopped there because the stores had great prices. Then, onto Blackpool for a couple of days, and enjoyed it. Next day went to York. That seemed to be the longest drive. Loved York. Two nights at least. Then, we drove down toward Stratford upon Avon. Stayed there 2 days, could stay three. Visited the town, Warwick Castle (the best), and Kenilworth, and a few other sights. Then, stayed near Blenheim Palace, visited in and northern Cotswold. From there, we went to London. Wished we had more time near York, rather than Wales. There were quite a few historic sites and monuments that we didn't get to see. Any questions? you can email me. You might want to read an article I wrote on BootsNall about how to maximize your British Heritage Pass. (I'm not selling anything)

Kendra

I agree with the person who advised against taking the tube from Heathrow. Instead, you could take the Heathrow Express train to Paddington Station and then take a cab. The Heathrow Express is a little pricey (for public transport), but it will be much less hassle than taking the tube with luggage and cheaper than a taxi or car service. Have a great time!!

Robin

Just an alternative view: I found the tube from Heathrow to be very simple and painless (assuming that your final destination is near a tube stop). I think the key, though, is luggage and mobility. I was fairly self-contained and alone. Terry's group is larger with varying ages, and that may make the difference. But I wouldn't discourage anyone who wants a simple, cheap option to try it.

kam

Just a small suggestion---if you're going to Chester, why not include a stop in Shrewbury especially if you've read or watched the Brother Cadfael series. We actually enjoyed it more than Chester. Spent 2 weeks in this area last year, and in general, the roads are good, certainly better than in Ireland. Betwys-y-coed is a delight (we stayed at the little Prince's Arms just outside of town), but the day we took the train to Mt. Snowdon, the visibility was absolutely minimal (they close if the weather gets too bad).Many people take the train up and the hike down. Easy decent. From Bath you can do a daytrip to Tintern Abbey and Raglan Castle. I found Cardiff Castle to be too young and too touristy. The tour guide really turned us off by suggesting tips several times. Caenarfon is very interesting. Whenever available, take the audio tour headsets--it really makes the history of the castles come alive. Enjoy, hope you'll have good weather, but go prepared for rain.

Terry

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I made a change to my itinerary: <BR>Bath-2 nights <BR>Conway, Wales-3 nights <BR>York-2 nights <BR>Cotswolds-2 nights (Warwick & Blenheim) <BR>London-5 nights <BR>(I took one night off York and added it to the Cotswolds) <BR>We're leaving in 3 days!