isibaker

Hi all,

My mother and I are taking a 12-day trip around England and France this June. I'm a 20 year old female and she will be 60 at the time of the trip. We are struggling with making an itinerary, so I thought I would come to you all for advice. I will already be in England for school when she arrives, and will be meeting her in London. We are both interested in history, gardens, museums, and just exploring streets and shops (we both love walking). We don't want to have a crazy packed itinerary, but we still want to see a lot with the time we have.

My mom also wants to minimize the number of places we stay as much as possible, so my thought was to stay in London for 5 nights, with two or so day trips out to Bath and Oxford/the Cotswolds. Then, we would head down to Paris on the Eurostar and head straight to either Provence or the Loire. Finally, we would stay in Paris for 4 nights (our flight is out of ORY). The problem is, we're having trouble deciding between spending the rest of the time in Provence (which we've both wanted to see forever) or the Loire. The fast train from Paris to Avignon is less than 3 hours, which isn't bad, but we'd be heading there straight from London which would tack on another 2 and a half hours. We'd stay down there for 3 nights, cutting a day from Paris. Is this worth it or is it too far for a short time? Would the Provence lavender and sunflowers be blooming in the middle of June? We'd be renting a car and possibly staying in St. Remy. The other option is to go to the Loire, staying in Amboise, for 2 nights. We'd both like to see this area too, but I'm afraid we'll be worn out from all the castles in London already (we want to go to Windsor, Blenheim, and possibly Hampton Court, plus Versailles in Paris). I've heard the towns there aren't as good for visiting as the Provencal towns. Any opinions on what we should do?

The Provence itinerary would be something like this:
London - 5 nights
St Remy - 3 nights (we'd take the Eurostar to Paris and then the fast train straight to Avignon)
Paris - 4 nights

The Loire itinerary would be something like this:
London - 5 nights
Amboise - 2 nights
Paris - 5 nights

Another option I guess would be to go to Normandy, but we haven't done much research on that, so opinions would be wonderful. Sorry for how long this is! And thanks in advance for any help.

Kathie

An easier option would be to spend 6 nights each in London and Paris and take a couple of day trips. No packing and unpacking. And fewer travel days means more days to see/do/experience.

PalenQ

I'd chose Provence over the Loire any day (and have lived in Loire and like it) and could be just as quick to get to as Loire - change at Lille Europea to French TGV to Avignon - no going into Paris -can get to Tours St-Pierre-des-Corps with such a train but those trains are much more frequent and may require a change at say Paris-Massy.

That said I agree with Kathie - maybe do a day trip to Loire from Paris or Normandy and D-Day Beaches, Chartres, Reims and Champagne tours, etc.

Buy your Eurostar tickets ASAP - early bird gets the worm -much lower rates than walk-up fares but sell out quickly usually - www.eurostar.com.

Ditto for any French TGV - www.voyages-sncf.com for booking.

For general info on trains check www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

For Bath discounted trains - www.nationalrail.co.uk. Oxford just buy once there - for Oggsford and Ciotswolds in one day some kind of tour is best - Oggsford itself no but to twin with Cotswold Hills yes.

tailsock

instead of wasting time relocating (packing, unpacking, checking into hotels, arriving at train stations, waiting in lines, etc.) use London and Paris as your base and take day trips accordingly.

StCirq

For such a short trip, yes, I'd just do Paris and London with daytrips. But if it comes to choosing between the Loire and Provence I would always choose Provence (though I wouldn't discount the TGV to Bordeaux, either).

tom_mn

Suggest you fly London to Marseille to save time, 12 days is plenty for 3 places.

PalenQ

Flying to Marseille or Lyon and doing a few days in Provence - Avignon makes a great base and town and ending in Paris could be nice.

Mimar

If you like gardens, June is a great time to be in England. There are all the parks and Kew Gardens. You could make a great tour of England visiting gardens -- but maybe not this time.

isibaker

Thank you everyone for your replies, and thanks for the helpful links PalenQ! I was unsure if flying from London to Marseille would be worth it, but I guess I should definitely look into it. I had thought about just staying in London and Paris - splitting the nights evenly at 6 each - and taking day trips from there. So we could do the Loire or Normandy as well as Giverny and Versailles from Paris. Would Colmar or Strasbourg be a reasonable daytrip from Paris? I guess I'm still torn just because we have both always wanted to see Provence. I'm guessing it's probably not even time to go there for a daytrip, but has anyone done this? I definitely don't want to be rushing, though, and want time to explore and get the feel for each place. Lots to think about!

Mimar, I have heard about all of the great gardens in England in June, and we're hopefully going to have time to visit a few. Kew Gardens is definitely on our list. Are there any good ones in Bath or Oxford?

bilboburgler

Just a few ideas to chuck in the pot, you could fly from a London airport to Province, say Avignon, by cheepo airline to save on the whole schelpping across Paris or changing train etc. London has 5 airports so I'd start with skyscanner and work down to the details.

Strasbourg or Rheims/Epernay are great days trips from Paris. Rheims is almost too big for that sort of trip but the cathedral makes up for it.

Consider somewhere like Saumur,Loire, as a stop, small but perfectly formed.

Normandy; well the towns are generally small and often a little solid, you might like Caen, Rouen or Bayeux (the ancient buildings, the tapestry and the good tourism links) or the tiny port of Honfleur (for the painters and the lovely port layout). My own preference is for the ports up on the peninsula but I doubt they would fit your bill.

hulal

You might consider picking only one, the Loire Valley or Provence. If its the Loire, don't stay in Ambroise. Chenonceau is centrally located and has a lovely chateau, I think one of the finest. Also, a wonderful 1 Michelin star rated restaurant and accommodation. In my opinion Vaux le Vicomte, not to far out of Paris, is more impressive than Versailles. If you decide to go the Loire route, might I suggest a good read beforehand... Ina Caro's "Paris to the Past" which gives a good history of the development of French culture. Very informative and helpful! One can never spend too many days in Paris so I would not cut a day short there.

annhig

I have to say that I like your original plan - getting the Eurostar from London to Provence is very easy [no crossing Paris required, you just change trains at Lille often by walking across the platform] and even allowing for check in times, you'll be in Avignon as quickly if not more quickly than you would be if you flew and it's a lot easier - cab to St Pancras from your hotel, and a very short cab ride to your hotel in Avignon from the station there, which is very close to the town centre.

And June should be an ideal time to see the lavender in Provence.

When you leave Provence if you book the fast train from Avignon to Paris, you can be there in 2 ½ hours.

isibaker

Thanks again everyone! We've thought about it, and we're either going to choose to split the time evenly in London and Paris with 6 nights each, or we'll do three nights in Provence in between. Such a hard decision - but I guess it's a good one to have

I'm afraid that if we spend every night in a big city, we won't get that authentic English or French experience. Would day trips to say Oxford, Bath, and the Cotswolds in England, and Colmar or the Loire in France give us that authentic experience? Or would we have to stay the night in a small town for that? Any other interesting day trip ideas?

If we did decide to go to Provence for 3 nights we would take the train from London to Lille and then to Avignon, I believe. Lots to think about!

bilboburgler

If you want authentic then Colmar, Oxford, Bath, Avignon are all out as they are tourist towns, front and centre.

Lille is probably pretty authentic, not nice authentic (despite a sculpture museum) but authentic.

PalenQ

Or would we have to stay the night in a small town for that?>

small non-tourist towns may be boring after a few days or hours or minutes- but there are zillions literally that few tourists ever venture in- I disagree with bilboburgler about Oxford, Bath, Colmar, etc not also presenting authentic towns - well compared to cosmopolitan London and Paris they are quintessentially English or French - especially in June before the tourists really descend on them in July and August.