reazon

Trying to put together a trip departing around July 16 or so and returning 10-14 days later for my wife and me. If the reverse order of that makes more sense, fine..tell me. We're not a bus tour couple...but we want to see lots..and we want to spend some time biking (which I'm thinking outside of Edinburgh for that) We're in good health,mid 60s, I'd like to wrap it up in Paris after having seen the must see attractions in Edinburgh and London first. We like good hotels..very top of the line not necessary;think 4 star here. Like good food (again..no $200 per person meals in Paris for us..give us a street market with escargot, great baguette and some wine and we're good) Are we on a budget? Yes...and no. And a nice horseback ride in the country would be great. Plane, train, no driving.
Anyone who can make sense of this and give us some ideas as to where to start..tour operators, independent traveler consultants, whatever..thanks!

thursdaysd

Do you mean July 16 <i>this</i> year? Because if so you have left it very late to book. Have you looked at air fares?

It doesn't make much difference which way round you do this - plane or train between Edinburgh and London, train between London and Paris. Go to seat61.com and read up on trains, go to skyscanner.com for budget airlines. Buy your long haul tickets into Edinburgh and out of paris or vice versa.

What I don't understand is why you are visiting three big (very big in the case of London) cities if you want to ride bikes and horses in the countryside, You'd be better off somewhere like the Cotswolds.

Suggest you start with some guidebooks. Fodors has some, lol, and you can borrow DK or Insight from the library or read them at your local bookshop. Look for Lonely Planet or Rough Guide or Michelin as well.

janisj

10 days isn't long enough for all that. 14 days is rushed but more doable. (14 days only nets you 11.5 days on the ground)

It really doesn't matter which order -- most likely your cheapest flights would be in to London and home from Paris. If so, then you would fly to London, train to Edinburgh, fly to Paris, fly home. IF you can get a cheaper flight in to Edinburgh and home from either Paris or London -- then it would be fly to EDI, train to London train to Paris fly home, or fly to EDI, fly to Paris train to London fly home.

>> spend some time biking (which I'm thinking outside of Edinburgh for that) <<

Biking (assuming you mean bicycles and not motorbikes/motorcycles) is not the easy excursion you might imagine. Very narrow roads w/ usually no shoulders. And (if you are from North America) all your instincts about where to look and where the traffic is coming from will be wrong.

janisj

we were posting at the same time. thursdaysd is right, you are picking difficult places if you want to ride/bike.

dotheboyshall

There's plenty of cycling in Edinburgh - http://www.spokes.org.uk/

reazon

I've just started to look into this and have a wild hair to pull this off in 60 days.Circumstances in our lives have presented themselves where you wake up and say, why NOT now because life really is too short, have prompted me to try this. Just two of us..we can do it. And yes, Cotswolds was a biking trip we looked at ten years ago, but had to scratch. It would be beautiful I'm sure. But since Edinburgh and Paris are the two must-go cities for us, we'll drop London altogether..or give it a quick look, look for reasonable bike path areas. I have read there are such in the Edinburgh area that are very accommodating to bicyclists. And to be clear, we're talking pleasure riding, not grueling climbs and speed. We've biked in Ireland..all over, including a 40 miler one day all around Dingle/hills and we handled it well. We're aware of the crazy narrow roads and drivers on the "other side" of the road and yes, it can be treacherous. But thank you for the comment/concern/warnings.

So, then........flying to Edinburgh, flying to Paris, fly home. (unless we go to London a couple of days just to say so, then train from EDI to London, train to Paris, fly home.) But first, I better look at just how insane the air flights this late date are...Thanks to all.

RM67

Ok - if you can, fly into Edinburgh (or Glasgow), get the train down to London, then Eurostar onto Paris, and finally fly home from Paris - that way you will have no backtracking whatsoever.

For riding, have you considered a hack in one of the London parks?

janisj

Yes there is -- I was talking about the perils of riding in the country when one is assuming idyllic country roads, when they are mostly only 'idyllic' for cars.

PalenQ

For trains check www.nationalrail.co.uk -for schedules and fares for all British regular trains and booking very early can yield big discounts - if not on a budget I'd suggest first class for long-distance trains - a huge difference IME and these tickets also come in discounted -if taking several longer trains check out a BritRail Pass which lets you hop on and off just about train - there are also Caledonian Sleepers between London and many Scottish stations.

For lots on British trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Very narrow roads w/ usually no shoulders.< Yes having biked for years around England these back roads are idyllic looking but like janis says can be very narrow - basically single-laned with 'passing places' along the way- and IME often thick hedgerows along each side so no way to get off.

janisj

OK, see what you can find and book your flights and then we can help you work out a plan. There is a big difference between 10 and 14 days re what you can squeeze in.

BTW the Cotswolds are even worse for biking than rural Scotland.

A post from Cotswold-resident flanneruk on a recent thread:

"<blue>The Cotswolds aren't at all bike-friendly, so naturally today's breed of self-centred obsessives sees that as a challenge. Increasingly, quiet microtowns are invaded by pelotons of Middle Aged Morons in Lycra, breaking speed limits, going the wrong way up one-way streets and pretending they're too "authentic" to look at traffic signs.

If you're that kind of me-generation anti-social, take your fad and practice it somewhere else. If you just fancy cycling along empty country lanes, realise there's no such thing here, and that undulating, twisty roads are simply death traps for people on bikes. A driver well below the 50 mph speed limit typically has fractions of a second between first seeing a cyclist and hitting him.

We have adequate (by British standards, so outstanding by the standards of most of the rest the world) public transport, the world's best footpaths for walking, OK roads for driving around and well-trained horses and riders. The only useful role bikes play in all this is to help properly-trained people living beyond easy walking distance get to stations or bus stops.</blue>"

fuzzbucket

If you're going to Paris, I would recommend contacting this company
http://www.frenchmystiquetours.com/ The owner will take you on a personalized bike tour heading outside of Paris - you'll see some wonderful places you never knew existed. And you won't encounter the dangerous traffic problem mentioned in the Cotswolds and thereabouts.

PalenQ

The only useful role bikes play in all this is to help properly-trained people living beyond easy walking distance get to stations or bus stops.">

Rubbish- I've biked all over Britain and find it fascinating and a real way to see local life - you don't speed past things like on a train or bus but 'feel' the country. I've led hundreds, literally, several hundred of folks on bike trips in Britain and no one saw it as dangerous (we routed them on the safest roads possible) and everyone thought it was great - from stopping by rural pubs and small villages cars often bypoass).

Yes the country don't have many great bike paths but not all side roads are like the ones in Scotland janis so aptly described. Main roads have wide shoulders and bike touring is as much a rage in Britain as in any country in Europe except a handful like Holland, Belgium, Denmark - dense falt countries with plenty of bike paths.

The Tour de France I think started in England last year.

So don't ditch the idea of biking - just chose an area conducive to it. Having a mountain bike expands the opportunities as you can see from the paths they can go over in the following:

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/se...est-bike-rides

thursdaysd

Seems not everyone agrees with flanner:

http://www.cotswolds.com/things-to-do/cycling-routes

http://www.the-cotswolds.org/top/eng...ling/index.php

I was actually thinking more of off-road cycling:

http://cotswolds.info/cotswold-tours/cycling.shtml

reazon

wow..I'm overwhelmed by the many helpful responses posted.
I think we've decide this coming July is much too soon to do this trip justice, not to mention how high the air fares would be to
book at this late date. ( BUT, I still am dying to go NOW so, if anyone wants to talk me out of waiting..give it a shot please!)
We'd be leaving anywhere from July 19/20 returning July 30/31. That would be 10-11 non-flying days, should be as long as we'd need..and could afford.

I had to laugh at flanneruk's post on biking in the Cotswolds.
"Middle Aged Morons in Lycra." HA! So funny..and true! I see them where we live,pelotons seemingly oblivious to surrounding traffic and stop signs and if you DARE come close to them, ohhhhhhhhh the outrage.

MmePerdu

I'm a walker, not a cyclist, but we have in common some places that are good for both. In large cities consider big parks with cycle routes. I suspect the Bois de Boulogne in Paris has plenty. In the countryside do some research on canals with paved or otherwise well-surfaced towpaths. Google, for instance, "uk cycling towpaths". The better surfaced (paved) paths are usually on either side & into larger towns and are great places for rides.

Examples:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy...erways/cycling

https://www.waterways.org.uk/news_ca...ng_on_towpaths

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ac...le-routes.html

Last night I arrived home after some time spent in the Cotswolds and flanneruk is correct. Driving, particularly on Sundays, was a never-ending dance on narrow rural roads trailing seemingly oblivious cyclists seconds away from possible annihilation, quite a phenomenon. Don't join them, stay on designated cycle routes, preferably not alongside car lanes. You'll be much happier, as will the drivers.

reazon

Thank you..I'm convinced; we're not going to attempt the Cotswolds.

PalenQ

With that short a trip you do not really have time for much biking - hassle with renting, etc. Biking sounds great and maybe more romantic than it is in the UK.

reazon

Question..everyone is saying/inferring that anything less than 14 days is a rushed trip. Really? So, if we keep it to Scotland/EDI and France/Paris, wouldn't 10 days-12 days be enough time?? And, if we did make it a 14 day trip, couldn't we fit in London? Flying into EDI, then train to London, then train/fly to Paris..fly home from Paris? I'm not a one percenter..not even close so, we need to pack in as much as we can in that time frame. More importantly, we have too many situations here too complicated and boring to explain to be away much longer than that.

janisj

You can make any length work -- but do need to understand the logisitics.

let's work w/ a 12 day total trip:

1.5 days spent flying to Europe. 1 day flying home. At least the rest of your arrival day will be jet lagged so not really much sightseeing possible. Then another .5 day eaten up moving from Edinburgh to either London or Paris.

So now your '12 days' is really just 8.5 days free for seeing/doing.

With 14 days and doing all 3 cities - another .5 day for the extra city transfer so 14 days will net you 10 useable days which is doable for Edinburgh/London/Paris -- but not a lot of time to spare.

reazon

Ok, good information there. The travel time once in Europe is probably much underestimated by travelers I'm guessing. I get it. Thank you.