Eastern Europe tour - too ambitious?
Apr 24th, 2005, 07:13 AM
#1
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Eastern Europe tour - too ambitious?
I live in Paris and would like to tour eastern Europe this August. As an American I adore car trips and long distances don't bother me; my French husband though thinks I am being way too ambitious. I view the trip as a 'sampler'...
Your opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Day
1 Paris to Berlin
2 Berlin to Warsaw
3 Warsaw
4 Warsaw to Riga
5 Riga to Helsinki (via ferry at Riga or Tallin)
6 Helsinki to St Petersburg
7 St Petersbourg
8 St Petersbourg to Moscow
9 Moscow
10 Moscow
11 Moscow to Kiev
12 Kiev to Odessa
13 Odessa to Bucarest
14 Bucarest to Sophia
15 Sophia to Belgrade
16 Belgrade to Budapest
17 Budapest
18 Budapest to Vienna (via Bratislava)
19 Vienna
20 Vienna to Prague
21 Prague
22 Prague to Liechtenstein
23 Liechtenstein to Paris
I am missing something by not going to Minsk?
Your opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Day
1 Paris to Berlin
2 Berlin to Warsaw
3 Warsaw
4 Warsaw to Riga
5 Riga to Helsinki (via ferry at Riga or Tallin)
6 Helsinki to St Petersburg
7 St Petersbourg
8 St Petersbourg to Moscow
9 Moscow
10 Moscow
11 Moscow to Kiev
12 Kiev to Odessa
13 Odessa to Bucarest
14 Bucarest to Sophia
15 Sophia to Belgrade
16 Belgrade to Budapest
17 Budapest
18 Budapest to Vienna (via Bratislava)
19 Vienna
20 Vienna to Prague
21 Prague
22 Prague to Liechtenstein
23 Liechtenstein to Paris
I am missing something by not going to Minsk?
Apr 24th, 2005, 08:29 AM
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Your right in saying its a sampler...
what are you planning to do in Berlin. If you dont get there later in the day, and then leave the next day for warsaw, I don't think its worth heading there.
Even just one full day in St. Petersburg isn't even close to enough time to see anything in the city.(same goes for two full days in Moscow, 1 full day in Vienna, 1 full day in Prauge ect...)
For a sampler, I would even tae your 5 or 6 favorite destinations you are interested in and spending 5 days in each (give or take of course on the amount of places you decide on)
I think you will see a lot of country side with the driving, but the amount of time you have left in each city, really isn't going to be worth your wild. Once you get there, your gonna have to pack up and leave again...
what are you planning to do in Berlin. If you dont get there later in the day, and then leave the next day for warsaw, I don't think its worth heading there.
Even just one full day in St. Petersburg isn't even close to enough time to see anything in the city.(same goes for two full days in Moscow, 1 full day in Vienna, 1 full day in Prauge ect...)
For a sampler, I would even tae your 5 or 6 favorite destinations you are interested in and spending 5 days in each (give or take of course on the amount of places you decide on)
I think you will see a lot of country side with the driving, but the amount of time you have left in each city, really isn't going to be worth your wild. Once you get there, your gonna have to pack up and leave again...
Apr 24th, 2005, 08:40 AM
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You'll see more of the interior of the car than of Eastern Europe.
And do bear in mind that roads in Eastern Europe are not very likely to be as good as the thruways and interstates you are used to in the U.S.
For 23 days, pick your five (maximum) favorite places. Given the distances between some of the cities you name, you will still have plenty of driving time.
And do bear in mind that roads in Eastern Europe are not very likely to be as good as the thruways and interstates you are used to in the U.S.
For 23 days, pick your five (maximum) favorite places. Given the distances between some of the cities you name, you will still have plenty of driving time.
Apr 24th, 2005, 09:05 AM
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Use the following route planner to calculate the distances/driving times of each leg of this journey then come back and tell us if you think it's too ambitious. Day one (Paris-Berlin) is 652 miles, day two (Berlin-Warsaw) is 351 miles...days three through twenty-three contain a lot more high mileage. I'm not saying it <i>can't</i> be done, but do wonder <i>why</i> it would be attempted. <b>Less Is More</b> in my book.
http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/holiday...te-planner.asp
PS - what kind of car are you driving?
http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/holiday...te-planner.asp
PS - what kind of car are you driving?
Apr 24th, 2005, 09:20 AM
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I personally think some of the previous posters are being way too kind. This itinerary borders on insane!
Driving in Europe is NOTHING like driving in many parts of the States. Plus, many car rental agencies will not allow you to take their cars into some of those countries.
Oh - and be sure to show this thread to your husband.
Driving in Europe is NOTHING like driving in many parts of the States. Plus, many car rental agencies will not allow you to take their cars into some of those countries.
Oh - and be sure to show this thread to your husband.
Apr 24th, 2005, 09:52 AM
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Thanks for your input and don't worry janis they are unkind in other threads not here 
I will take everyone's advice and split the trip into at least 3 separate ones.
Thank you all!
PS we will drive our own car: an older powerful mercedes
I will take everyone's advice and split the trip into at least 3 separate ones.
Thank you all!
PS we will drive our own car: an older powerful mercedes
Apr 24th, 2005, 11:43 AM
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I too think you will be lucky to even make it to the destination you plan to stay in each night much less see anything. We've visited Romania for a week and it was too short of a time. We've been to Budapest twice for a total of 8 days. We spent 4 days in Vienna and 5 days in Prague. But, the most marvelous part about these countries is the smaller cities. If I were you I'd eliminate at least 75% of your itinerary. A couple of other things. My son lived in Lithuania which is between Latia and Poland; it was an overnight ride to get from Lithuania to Warsaw and then it was another 4 hours on the bus to Riga so I have no idea how you think you can fit it in this quickly. Two summers ago we drove from Krakow to the Dresden area and it took us 8 hours. Eastern Europe just doesn't have the fast roads that western Europe has. By the way, I'm an American too and I still think this itinerary is nuts.
May 4th, 2005, 08:10 AM
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Is this for real?
It is doubtful you will be able to simply drive across the borders of Russia and Ukraine. You will need not only your passports, but visas obtained ahead of time for each of the countries.
At least you are not trying to go back and forth between Russia and Ukraine, in which case you would need double or multi-entry visas.
It is doubtful you will be able to simply drive across the borders of Russia and Ukraine. You will need not only your passports, but visas obtained ahead of time for each of the countries.
At least you are not trying to go back and forth between Russia and Ukraine, in which case you would need double or multi-entry visas.
Jun 19th, 2005, 12:53 AM
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other posts have made the point already. Just a slight question: 1 day in St Petersburg? 3 days in Moscow? May I suggest you do a bit of travel planning & read about the cities you intent to cross? You will quickly find out that you'd better spend 1d in Moscow & 3d in St Petersburg. Whenever I have visited a large city in Europe, I have tried to consider a minimum stay of 3 days. usually this gives you just enough time to touch the city, its spirt & its major landmarks. Enjoy your trip!
Jun 19th, 2005, 02:43 AM
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"As an American I adore car trips..." and I suspect you've already sampled what all of us "adoring" Americans are going to get: higher gas prices as time goes on.
Cynically (who, ME????) I suspect that what you probably "adore" the most is having someone ELSE do the driving so I guess he's a little smarter than we thought after all.
Cynically (who, ME????) I suspect that what you probably "adore" the most is having someone ELSE do the driving so I guess he's a little smarter than we thought after all.
Jun 19th, 2005, 03:09 AM
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One full day in Warsaw is not a sampler of Poland.
What for to go to Riga if you spent there only one night?
You are planning to arrive in the evening in these cities and leave next morning;
Helsinki
Kiev
Odessa
Bucarest
Sophia
Belgrade
With so many kilometers you need to stop somewhere to check your car and change oil. Maybe you have Mercedes but this car too needs some care. What about if you get a flat tire somwhere or your car breaksdown?
Did you check how many hours is going to take to drive from St. Petersburg to Moscow? Are planning on driving all day and night?
I agree, this itinerary is insane and you already know what to do
You husband is just too nice if he said your plan is too ambitious. I would say your itinerary is crazy.
Glad you decided to do something about it. I suggest you rent a movie I don't remember an exact title but here it is "If it's Sunday we must be in Belgium" or something like that
What for to go to Riga if you spent there only one night?
You are planning to arrive in the evening in these cities and leave next morning;
Helsinki
Kiev
Odessa
Bucarest
Sophia
Belgrade
With so many kilometers you need to stop somewhere to check your car and change oil. Maybe you have Mercedes but this car too needs some care. What about if you get a flat tire somwhere or your car breaksdown?
Did you check how many hours is going to take to drive from St. Petersburg to Moscow? Are planning on driving all day and night?
I agree, this itinerary is insane and you already know what to do
You husband is just too nice if he said your plan is too ambitious. I would say your itinerary is crazy.
Glad you decided to do something about it. I suggest you rent a movie I don't remember an exact title but here it is "If it's Sunday we must be in Belgium" or something like that
Jul 11th, 2005, 02:44 AM
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well i went to carkow and you miss out the most beautiful city in poland and one of 3 most beautiful in europe and one of the 4 most beautiful in the world.perhaps berlin to carkow would be better .paris .london carkow and isfajhan if you can dont miss any of them,
Jul 11th, 2005, 03:50 AM
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I suggest you take a weekend now on the Riviera, and go there and come back in a women-only 2 berth second-class sleeper. Then you will learn how well you sleep on trains. If the answer is well, then you could have something of what you want if you take overnight trains every second night, and stay in hotels every second night.
1 Paris to Berlin
3 Berlin to Krakow
There are now no sleepers between Warsaw and the Baltic countries, nor among the Baltic countries. The old cities of those countries are indeed beautiful, but long tours by bus are tiresome, so I think you should cut them out. You should also omit Belorus and Minsk, which have a grey, Soviet feel. See http://travel.independent.co.uk/europe/eastern/ for a report of 23 October 2002 headed The last resort and subheaded Belarus, unloved and unlovely outpost of a fallen Soviet empire, is reinventing itself as a tourist destination.
5 Krakow, change in Warsaw, stay in St Petersburg
8 Moscow
10 Lviv (more beautiful than Kyiv)
12 Odessa
14 Change at Chisinau and Ploesti, stay in Brasov (more beautiful than Bucharest)
17 Belgrade
19 Budapest
21 Morning train to Vienna
23 Morning train to Prague
25 Change at Berlin Ost, Paris
[email protected]
1 Paris to Berlin
3 Berlin to Krakow
There are now no sleepers between Warsaw and the Baltic countries, nor among the Baltic countries. The old cities of those countries are indeed beautiful, but long tours by bus are tiresome, so I think you should cut them out. You should also omit Belorus and Minsk, which have a grey, Soviet feel. See http://travel.independent.co.uk/europe/eastern/ for a report of 23 October 2002 headed The last resort and subheaded Belarus, unloved and unlovely outpost of a fallen Soviet empire, is reinventing itself as a tourist destination.
5 Krakow, change in Warsaw, stay in St Petersburg
8 Moscow
10 Lviv (more beautiful than Kyiv)
12 Odessa
14 Change at Chisinau and Ploesti, stay in Brasov (more beautiful than Bucharest)
17 Belgrade
19 Budapest
21 Morning train to Vienna
23 Morning train to Prague
25 Change at Berlin Ost, Paris
[email protected]
Jul 11th, 2005, 12:43 PM
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I agree with some other respondents concerning your Poland portion of your trip. Warsaw doesn't really offer the most accurate picture of Poland. The Germans burned down over 90% of Warsaw after the Warsaw Uprising during WWII, so Warsaw lost its pre-WWII glory. True, the rebuilt Old Town is beautiful but the rest of the city is a hectic mixture of styles. I have to admit that I admire Warsaw for its Phoenix like resilience. It's an amazing city in that respect. However, I believe that you have to be familiar with Warsaw's history to truly appreciate the city. Otherwise, one may get a false picture of the place.
If you only have time for one city in Poland than I highly recommend Krakow. It's a real gem. Don't forget to visit the nearby Wieliczka Salt Mines. If you have time for two cities in Poland then add Gdansk to your itinerary. Both Krakow and Gdansk are gorgeous and give you a much better glimpse of Poland.
Enjoy your trip
If you only have time for one city in Poland than I highly recommend Krakow. It's a real gem. Don't forget to visit the nearby Wieliczka Salt Mines. If you have time for two cities in Poland then add Gdansk to your itinerary. Both Krakow and Gdansk are gorgeous and give you a much better glimpse of Poland.
Enjoy your trip
Jul 14th, 2005, 07:29 AM
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Btw, here's an itinerary that I posted for Krakow (in response to some other forum visitor question).
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...nych&fid=2
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...nych&fid=2
