DUI and crossing borders in Canada and Ireland (from the U.S.)

Hi DT,

Have you considered calling the Irish Embassy or consulate?

I agree with ira. Anytime you need info on entry requirements you should go straight to the source and don't rely on what others tell you. Here's some contact info for the Embassy in DC.

http://www.embassy.org/embassies/ie.html

First - you need to contact the Irish Embassy or Consulate.

Second, forgive me for disagreeing with you but there is no way anyone is barred from visiting Canada due to a single simple DUI conviction 20 years ago. There is o way that sort of minor conviction would be in any sort of system that Canada would have access to.

A DUI would be a bar to admittance only if
1) the driver never showed us in court to answer the charge and an arrest warrant was issued and never resolved
2) it were an unresolved DUI that became a felony with an outstanding warrant because the penalty (fine or community service or whatever) was never served
3) it were an egregious DUI resulting in serious injury or death and so became a felony

Canada isn't interested in basic traffic tickets that are paid - or no one would ever be able to enter the country. There has to be more to the story than that.

Sorry -

If your brother is a felon with an unresolved arrest warrant against him (the only way I can see this being reported - and perhaps what you referred to as a "many-step hoop-jump") he is likely to have trouble getting out of the US and into almost any country.

The son of a friend of mine was denied entry to Canada last year for the same reason, and he showed up in court and there was no outstanding warrant for him. It was a conviction from about 4 years ago, I think.

I found this article saying the ban only lasts 10 years after conviction. Maybe your brother can visit Canada now.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g153339-c49436/Canada:Dwi.Or.Dui.Driving.Convictions.html

Ireland, like most European countries, doesn't care if you were convicted of a crime (unless it's genocide) unless you are wanting to emigrate there. They aren't like some sniffy countries who get upset even if you were just wrongly arrested

@nytraveler: I understand what you're saying, but I think, based on the information that I've been able to come up with online, that the basis for this is that Canada sees the DUI as a federal crime (in the US it's a state issue), and Canada does not allow federal criminals in. Unless my brother is hiding information from me (I don't think so), that's the way it is. It's possible that he was less than nice to border people, in which case he could have been treated differently than we would think was reasonable. My concern, however, is really for Ireland.

By all means phone your local Irish consulate if you've got nothing better to do with your time. But you'll probably just confuse them, or go through endless premium-priced automated systems.

There simply isn't a system in Ireland for checking on previous convictions of arriving foreigners, and such convictions are immaterial to whether your brother's allowed into the country.

As a matter of interest, though: why would any sane human being waste energy on unnecessary phone calls to Irish officials on the basis of the absurd authoritarianism of a country 3,000 miles away?

Would you phone the French embassy to check whether you needed a burqa because you'd heard the Saudis do? Or the Mexican one to check if you could enter with an Israeli stamp on your passport?

My comments on Canada not allowing him in are based on the fact that there should not be any way the Canadians would even know about a 20 year old DUI that has been discharged. There is no way that should even be in any system that Canada should have access to.

Typically the only things reported in these systems are felonies or undischarged warrants - and that's what the decision would be made on. Perhaps there has been some sort of mistake in the system - but barring the above there is no way Canada should have access to the information on which they banned him.

Has anyone considered the possibility that there's an error in the records the US are making available to Canada? Is it possible for the OP's brother to check the record?

If you google DUI Canada deny entry or some such combination you will find a load of articles about how Canada DOES have the technology to find out about American DUI convictions and DOES deny entry to Americans who have them. It's recent technology. They use it. You can apply for a "Certificate of Rehabilitation" if your DUI is 5 years old or more and only THEN be admitted to the country. I'm not making this up - I simply did a google search. It's all there for anyone to see.

Whether Canada can use that technology to find out about a 20-year-old conviction - I don't know.

And there was a thread a few months ago in the Canada forum (along with thread to an article in a Canadian newspaper) which discussed the fact that Canada has denied access to Americans, in this case a couple who had been busted for marijuana possession in the 1960s while in college. They had had no subsequent legal problems. Didn't mention whether this was a felony/misdeanor issue. I know this isn't DUI, but it did point out that technology somehow allowed Canadians to get acces to records over 40 yrs old.

It's not a mystery, really. 9/11 changed everything with respect to records and travel. The U.S. and Canada have always worked closely, and since 9/11 have been working even closer. Inmany instances actually been enforcing some of the rules that may not have been before.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/23/MNGCAO9NSB1.DTL

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/12/12/rec.canada.border/

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/press_release_0024.shtm

And I should add that unless you want to find out the hard way, it might be worth looking into to see if Ireland may possibly have access to or be using the same databases that Canada is.

Ireland, like the rest of the civilised world are looking for Evil-Doers, not someone with a DUI or conviction for smoking dope. The only time a criminal conviction is important is if you are applying for a visa to live in a country

@alanRow: It seems Canada disagrees with you, sadly.
@jefe: I've seen some of that information previously. I agree also that the best course is to know before we go.
@stcirq: I found that information too and the 9-step 'rehab' program that Canada has to get back in good standing. That's not a problem because we're familiar with it and whether he chooses to go to Canada again is anyone's guess. This time I'm just worried about Ireland because I'm afraid he'll be foolish and NOT do anything about the record before we go.