Driving in Germany
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:02 AM
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Driving in Germany
Hi Everybody,
I've been seeing good fare to Germany in December, so I'm contemplating a trip to visit the Christmas markets. I was thinking that driving would be cheaper than the trains (splitting the cost of the car with one other person). How harrowing is driving in Germany? How fast is the "slow lane"?
Thanks!
I've been seeing good fare to Germany in December, so I'm contemplating a trip to visit the Christmas markets. I was thinking that driving would be cheaper than the trains (splitting the cost of the car with one other person). How harrowing is driving in Germany? How fast is the "slow lane"?
Thanks!
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:13 AM
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Though many autobahns do have speed limits many don't. Here's my experience after driving a van there for ten years - even when i stayed in the slow lane going at top speed i got the constant scorn of mainly heavy lorry drivers - one even brandished a knife at me through his window - i was going top speed for me! So keep up with the flow of traffic - but on stretches with no speed limit, either floor it or stay in the 'slow' lane and keep up with the speed of the drivers there...or take the back roads.
Otherwise i found German drivers, off the autobahn, fairly curteous, etc. - nothing like Italy and France where drivers seem to take the stresses of their daily lives out on the road.
Otherwise i found German drivers, off the autobahn, fairly curteous, etc. - nothing like Italy and France where drivers seem to take the stresses of their daily lives out on the road.
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:16 AM
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If you can handle freeways at home you should be able to handle the autobahn. Study up on international road signs a little before you go and remember to only use the left lane for passing. When you do pass do it quickly and mover back to the right while keeping one eye on the rearview mirror.
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:18 AM
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not sure driving would be cheaper than trains - you can get a German Twin pass for $156 p.p. for four days of unlimited travel on all passenger trains in Germany - so $212 for two - extra days are available at only $20 p.p. - compare this with the cost of car rental and high petrol costs and the hassle of driving and parking in cities - parking can cost about $20 a day in large cities. Trains are great, go everywhere about twice hourly, up to 190 mph, even a tad faster than the fastest autobahn speedsters. For info on German passes: www.budgeteuropetravel.com, who i always recommend for any train pass due to their experitse in my experience. www.euraide.com also is a German rail expert agency and they are even based both in Germany and the U.S. www.ricksteves.com also has good railpass info.
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:25 AM
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aggiegirl, IMHO driving in Germany in particular and Europe in general is far less harrowing than driving in the US. Why? because German/European drivers pay attention and they don't have that maddening American habit of slow cruising the inside lane of the autoban/highway. Stay on the outside lane with your comfort speed and you'll be fine. Better yet.. If you're not in a hurry to get from point A to B, get off the autoban and enjoy the beautiful countryside and small towns.
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:52 AM
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Driving in Germany is not bad. I lived there and regularly drove to work on an Autobahn at 100 MPH. I was passed all the time.
The Autobahnen can be intimidating until you do it for a few minutes. The first rule is NEVER get into the left lane unless you are going to pass and can do it before the Porsche or BMW who is a mile behind you catches up. First they turn on their left turn signal to let you know they are coming. If that doesn't work they flash their high beams to let you know that you are doing something terribly wrong -- blocking their way.
Before you drive make sure you know the German road signage. Here is a good site showing just about everything I've ever seen over there.
http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/zeichen.htm.
Make sure you look at page 2 also for the parking signs. One thing I can't find on this site is the fact that some parking signs have a small sign underneath which says that you need a permit to park there. Parking spaces in some areas are reserved for residents. These signs are written in German. Qualifiers at municipal parking lots are also written in German.
Off the Autobahnen speedsters should be aware of the possibility of radar boxes equipped with camera and strobe light.
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:01 AM
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Instituting uniform speed limits, varying of course to urban, rural area seems still to be politically incorrect in this speed-loving land. There was i believe an attempt a few years back that met with a huge political backlash.
Still i wonder how generally envirnomentally conscious Germans can allow such gas-guzzling speeds - from all i've read speeds at around 55-60 mph are optimal and increase in speeds from there mean getting decreasingly good gas mileage?
Anyway i wonder if the Germans will ever come to their ecological senses and limit speeds to say 120 km/hr as they already are on many stretches of urban autobahns or even lower in some cases.
Still i wonder how generally envirnomentally conscious Germans can allow such gas-guzzling speeds - from all i've read speeds at around 55-60 mph are optimal and increase in speeds from there mean getting decreasingly good gas mileage?
Anyway i wonder if the Germans will ever come to their ecological senses and limit speeds to say 120 km/hr as they already are on many stretches of urban autobahns or even lower in some cases.
Oct 19th, 2006, 01:14 PM
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The roads are perfection - not a filled pothole or seam anywhere. The signs are also very clear. I didn't have any trouble driving at all. I don't know which would be cheaper but we liked having our own schedule and getting to rural areas.
Oct 19th, 2006, 03:17 PM
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Just returned from 2 1/2 week in Germany. We had a BMW with navigation system and put over 1600 miles on the car. We drove Munich, south of Munich, Salzburg and then to Venice. It was wonderful having the freedom of the car.
I would advise getting a navigation system with the car (10 euros per day with Hertz). She (navigation voice) got us to every place we put in the system. Without the system, we definitely would have had problems. It seemed the paper maps had different route numbers than posted.
Go for it, you won't regret it.
I would advise getting a navigation system with the car (10 euros per day with Hertz). She (navigation voice) got us to every place we put in the system. Without the system, we definitely would have had problems. It seemed the paper maps had different route numbers than posted.
Go for it, you won't regret it.
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:25 AM
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>>Anyway i wonder if the Germans will ever come to their ecological senses and limit speeds to say 120 km/hr as they already are on many stretches of urban autobahns or even lower in some cases.<<
Yawn!
This suggestion indeed comes from an American citizen, whose nation has refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol because there is "nothing in it" for the U.S.?
In the first place, a rough estimate of 80 % of drivers on the Autobahn do not exceed speeds of around 120 km/h. In fact, 130 km/h is the officially suggested speed anywhere ("Richtgeschwindigkeit"
.
Secondly, German-made and vehicles of other nations are in general significantly more fuel efficient than their American gas-guzzling counterparts, so it does not do that much more environmental damage if indeed a small minority of drivers exceeds speeds of that limit.
Thirdly, show me one country of about the same economic significance that is more environmentally conscious than Germany!
Finally, German Autobahns usually do not have more than 2 lanes in each direction (a few have 3) - it thus is important to speed things up a bit at times in order to reach the same average speed as on American Freeways. BTW I do not think it would be considered particularly environmentally friendly if Autobahns were widened.
Yawn!
This suggestion indeed comes from an American citizen, whose nation has refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol because there is "nothing in it" for the U.S.?In the first place, a rough estimate of 80 % of drivers on the Autobahn do not exceed speeds of around 120 km/h. In fact, 130 km/h is the officially suggested speed anywhere ("Richtgeschwindigkeit"
.Secondly, German-made and vehicles of other nations are in general significantly more fuel efficient than their American gas-guzzling counterparts, so it does not do that much more environmental damage if indeed a small minority of drivers exceeds speeds of that limit.
Thirdly, show me one country of about the same economic significance that is more environmentally conscious than Germany!
Finally, German Autobahns usually do not have more than 2 lanes in each direction (a few have 3) - it thus is important to speed things up a bit at times in order to reach the same average speed as on American Freeways. BTW I do not think it would be considered particularly environmentally friendly if Autobahns were widened.
Oct 20th, 2006, 08:25 AM
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hsv- i wholly agree with all you say about the U.S. which i think consumes more than half the world's energy and probably emits as much dangerous emissions.
That Mea Culpa said i still wonder why Germans don't legislate speed limits on autobahns - for safety reasons if for nothing else - i know thru frequent trips there how environmentally in tune they are - let your car idle someplace for more than a few seconds and invite yells at you - garbage in public places sorted into recycling bins, etc.
But all that still doesn't make me wonder why such speeds are allowed and excessive speed does indeed pollute more
You say: <In the first place, a rough estimate of 80 % of drivers on the Autobahn do not exceed speeds of around 120 km/h. In fact, 130 km/h is the officially suggested speed anywhere ("Richtgeschwindigkeit"> yet Hopscotch says:
<Driving in Germany is not bad. I lived there and regularly drove to work on an Autobahn at 100 MPH. I was passed all the time.>
My admittedly rather limited driving experience in Germany supports what Hopscotch says, so not sure about those stats - may be more in urban areas where traffic doesn't allow speeds but given the chance to open the throttle i think many Germans do - go the suggested speed limit and you're a traffic hazzard.
Oh well i love a friendly debate.
That Mea Culpa said i still wonder why Germans don't legislate speed limits on autobahns - for safety reasons if for nothing else - i know thru frequent trips there how environmentally in tune they are - let your car idle someplace for more than a few seconds and invite yells at you - garbage in public places sorted into recycling bins, etc.
But all that still doesn't make me wonder why such speeds are allowed and excessive speed does indeed pollute more
You say: <In the first place, a rough estimate of 80 % of drivers on the Autobahn do not exceed speeds of around 120 km/h. In fact, 130 km/h is the officially suggested speed anywhere ("Richtgeschwindigkeit"
> yet Hopscotch says:<Driving in Germany is not bad. I lived there and regularly drove to work on an Autobahn at 100 MPH. I was passed all the time.>
My admittedly rather limited driving experience in Germany supports what Hopscotch says, so not sure about those stats - may be more in urban areas where traffic doesn't allow speeds but given the chance to open the throttle i think many Germans do - go the suggested speed limit and you're a traffic hazzard.
Oh well i love a friendly debate.
Oct 20th, 2006, 08:31 AM
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To elaborate on what PalanqueBob said about trains, they're great. I always take the train (or occasional a bus). The trains never get lost, and I can sit back and enjoy the scenery, not watch the road and the traffic. Every trip to Germany I save hundreds of $ by using the trains and not renting a car.
Depending on the length of your travel legs, you might find a "Land" Ticket (eg. Bayern Ticket) to be a better deal than a rail pass. For about €25, you and up to four others can travel all day long (after 9 AM weekdays, from midnight on weekends) on as many regional trains as you choose in that German state. Additionally, with a €30 Schönes-Wochenende (happy weekend) ticket you can do the same thing on regional trains all day long on a Saturday or Sunday all across Germany. These Länder Tickets are also valid for travel on most conveyance (S/U-Bahn, streetcars, buses) in most metro districts in that state (whereas rail passes are only valid for the S-Bahn in cities). For information about all the Länder Tickets go to www.bahn.de. Click on "Internat. Guests", then "Useful links from A to Z", then on "Länder Tickets". Write me if you need more info at [email protected].
Depending on the length of your travel legs, you might find a "Land" Ticket (eg. Bayern Ticket) to be a better deal than a rail pass. For about €25, you and up to four others can travel all day long (after 9 AM weekdays, from midnight on weekends) on as many regional trains as you choose in that German state. Additionally, with a €30 Schönes-Wochenende (happy weekend) ticket you can do the same thing on regional trains all day long on a Saturday or Sunday all across Germany. These Länder Tickets are also valid for travel on most conveyance (S/U-Bahn, streetcars, buses) in most metro districts in that state (whereas rail passes are only valid for the S-Bahn in cities). For information about all the Länder Tickets go to www.bahn.de. Click on "Internat. Guests", then "Useful links from A to Z", then on "Länder Tickets". Write me if you need more info at [email protected].
Oct 20th, 2006, 09:00 AM
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When we were in Germany, we took trains for part of our trip and drove for the other. As others have said, driving in Germany was really easy. I did all the driving, my husband all the navigating. The first time on the autobahn was a bit unnerving, but after a couple minutes, it was fine. Pretty much like driving on freeways at home, but with better signage and road surfaces and drivers who pay attention and seem to know what they are doing.
Trains were easy too - and we found them to be relatively cheap.
Trains were easy too - and we found them to be relatively cheap.
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:41 AM
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PalenqueBob,
I will admit that my preferred speed is around 180 to 200 km/h (112 - 120 mph.) However, travelling at those speeds, my impression is that there are (too) many drivers travelling much slower.
I suppose the high fuel prices do add their share to that symptom.
Safety reasons cannot actually be quoted for introducing speed limits - the Autobahnen are Germany's safest roads by far - and rank among the top in Europe. Interestingly, the Danes increased the speed limit on their freeways a few years ago - and were surprised to find that there were fewer accidents to go along with increased speeds.
I definitely vote for keeping things the way they are - and also to enforce the "keep-right-rule" on the Autobahn much more strictly.
I will admit that my preferred speed is around 180 to 200 km/h (112 - 120 mph.) However, travelling at those speeds, my impression is that there are (too) many drivers travelling much slower.
I suppose the high fuel prices do add their share to that symptom.
Safety reasons cannot actually be quoted for introducing speed limits - the Autobahnen are Germany's safest roads by far - and rank among the top in Europe. Interestingly, the Danes increased the speed limit on their freeways a few years ago - and were surprised to find that there were fewer accidents to go along with increased speeds.
I definitely vote for keeping things the way they are - and also to enforce the "keep-right-rule" on the Autobahn much more strictly.
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:51 AM
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I can appreciate that - and it's neat that Germany is one of the few places in the world with no speed limit on some autobahns - just like in some western states like Montana i believe though there the federal government tries to dictate state speed limits through withdrawal of federal highway funds.
Q- hsv - what proportion of autobahns have no speed limit - most or relatively few? Just curious and where there are speed limits are they vigorously enforced like France started a few years back. Thanks.
Q- hsv - what proportion of autobahns have no speed limit - most or relatively few? Just curious and where there are speed limits are they vigorously enforced like France started a few years back. Thanks.
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:28 PM
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Palenque,
you are indeed demanding and keeping the level of the discussion high, aren't you?
I admit I had to google for the information requested, and it appears that about 50 % of the Autobahn-Kilometers do not have a speed limit. About 33 % feature permanent speed limits, 12 % have flexible speed limits according to the amount of traffic.
Are the speed limits rigorously enforced? - Well, it depends, I suppose. Luckily the police seem to be fairly reasonable about this, but a lot depends on the various German states' (Bundeslaender) policy on this as they are responsible for the police on their territory. I am always fairly watchful in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Brandenburg (coming to think about it, all the new Bundeslaender in the East are a bit problematic). Bavaria also has a tendency to be quite strict from my experience.
Methods employed include light barriers, radar and unmarked police cars (look out for those Audi A6, Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series with two male persons in the front seats that are not dressed in suits - they might carry a hidden camera in the grill. Not limited to these brands, though).
you are indeed demanding and keeping the level of the discussion high, aren't you?
I admit I had to google for the information requested, and it appears that about 50 % of the Autobahn-Kilometers do not have a speed limit. About 33 % feature permanent speed limits, 12 % have flexible speed limits according to the amount of traffic.
Are the speed limits rigorously enforced? - Well, it depends, I suppose. Luckily the police seem to be fairly reasonable about this, but a lot depends on the various German states' (Bundeslaender) policy on this as they are responsible for the police on their territory. I am always fairly watchful in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Brandenburg (coming to think about it, all the new Bundeslaender in the East are a bit problematic). Bavaria also has a tendency to be quite strict from my experience.
Methods employed include light barriers, radar and unmarked police cars (look out for those Audi A6, Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series with two male persons in the front seats that are not dressed in suits - they might carry a hidden camera in the grill. Not limited to these brands, though).
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:32 PM
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hsv - danke for taking time to answer my demanding questions - sincerely and will pose no more.
When i was driving years ago in the DDR we were warned repeatedly about how strict the speed limits were enforced. I don't remember if they had limits on autobahns but if there was you didn't dare go a km above it.
Again thanks for your insights and Gut Fahrt (nice ride??) always like that phrase when i see it posted on signs in Germany, a country i love to travel in but usually now by the fantastic and economically friendly train system.
When i was driving years ago in the DDR we were warned repeatedly about how strict the speed limits were enforced. I don't remember if they had limits on autobahns but if there was you didn't dare go a km above it.
Again thanks for your insights and Gut Fahrt (nice ride??) always like that phrase when i see it posted on signs in Germany, a country i love to travel in but usually now by the fantastic and economically friendly train system.
