Dordogne trip - please more advice

mimipam:

No real suggestions, alas, but I'll be interested in your trip report because we will be renting a gîte in Sarlat for a week at the beginning of July and plan to use it as a base. From all I've heard Rocamadour sounds like a necessary stop despite the crowds. My friend who has stayed in Sarlat tells me that the first hour or so of the market is the best time, arriving no later than 8:00 A.M. If you do that for the in-town market in Sarlat (and I gather Wednesday's market is a bit smaller than Saturday's), you should have time to get to Rocamadour before the afternoon. Good luck!

Maybe you can rethink all of this and reconsolidate the sites you want to visit. Forget Eyrignac and Marqueyssac and instead do this:

1. Sarlat to Jardins de l'Imaginaire in Terrasson, followed by Collonges-la-Rouge, followed by Martel, followed by Rocamadour, followed by Domme, then home.

2. Beynac, gabarre ride, La Roque-Gageac, Castelnaud, Les Milandes, Montfor. Note that if you're not going to see the castle at Castelnaud itself, I wouldn't bother going to town - there's nothing there but the castle, a coupleof snack bars, and shops selling medieval stuff. And Montfort is a drive-by.

That leaves you a full day. Make it Wednesday and spend the morning at the market in Sarlat. If the weather's nice, you could canoe/kayak. Note that a gabarre ride is an hour; a canoe ride is half a day at least.

Hi Midnight - I will try to report back on our trip. StCirq thanks for the ideas. I will be looking at them.

>>1. If I only go to one garden, should it be Eyrignac or Marqueyssac? I had planned on Eyrignac as it has *** , but then I wonder about Marqueyssac ** that has the beautiful views.<<

These two gardens are completly different. Eyrignac is a very pretty and formal Italian style garden with carved hedges, pretty lawns, and recently a flower garden (roses I think - it was not quite fully developed when we were there). Marqueyssac nas a nice knot garden, but the rest of the "garden" is quite wild. Like you noted, there are nice views towards Baynac in the am, and views down below at the Dordogne river & Roque Gageac. You'll be doing more hiking at Marqueyssac If you like gardens, see Eyrignac. If you prefer views - then Marqueyssac. If you like both - ????

>>2. If I take StCirq's suggestion from a previous post and skip Rocamadour on the way to Sarlat (where we are staying) and decide to see that on a separate day - what would be a good plan for that day? I do not think I want to go to Gouffre de Padirac since I am already planning on three caves (even though I know this one is very different). Perhaps Jardin d'Eyrignac could be included in this day.<<

What 3 caves are you visiting? Rocamadour is close to Peche Merle. Also, Padirac is VERY different from the caves with pre-historic paintings. You descend, then take a boat trip on this "wet" cave, then see some stalactites & mites, then return. I find it quite interesting (two trips)

>>3. For one of our days I have considered from Sarlat: Jardin et manoir de Marqueyssac (if we choose this garden), Beynac castle and village, Castelnaud village (maybe castle though I am not too interested in medieval arms as I have seen some of that), La Roque Gageac, Domme and Montfort. Is this too much?<<

The views from Castelnaud are fantastic - and those from beynac are quite nice also. I actually prefer Caastelnaud over Beynac castle. Castelnaud's tour is "self guided" while Beynac has a guided tour - so Beynac will probably consume more time and I think the tour was in French when we took it (not sure - my wife speaks French & translates for me)<<

>>Other sites I really don't want to miss - Milandes and canoe or boat trip (which would you do if only one - boat or canoe?<<

Don't miss Milandes The canoe trip is fun, but will consume considerably more time than the boat trip and may tire you out.

>>One other thing - Wed morn we want to be in Sarlat for the market so that leaves the afternoon - I would probably try to fit in Rocamadour here except I am afraid it will be too crowded.<,

Depends on what time of year you'll be there.


Stu Dudley

Hi Stu,
What boat trip/company did you take? I have been on norbert.fr and gabarre-beyanc. The gabarre site is in French and since I don't know French I can only make out a little of it. It does however, seem to me to be the better of the two. Likewise, with canoes- Loisirs is in French but copeyre has English. I think maybe that those two are similar. Which company did you use?

WE leave in about three weeks (May) thanks to those of you who gave me advice when I was considering going in August!!!So how crowded is Rocamadour the latter part of May??

We have reservations at Pech Merle, Lascaux, and Font du Gaume.

Also, in a previous post I was stressed about trying to fit in Figeac on the way to Rocamadour. That day we have reservations to Pech Merle. In my original plan I wanted to go to Figeac along the Cele from Pech Merle and then on to Rocamadour. I am afraid I planned too much for that day. Sooo at StCirq's suggestion I considered skipping Rocamadour that day. I am still in a quandry over this. That is why I love this site - some of you are repeat "visitors" and know sooo much more than I can tell by reading and looking at maps.

This is the canoë/kayak place we prefer:

http://www.rivercanoekayak.net/

Frankly, I think you can skip Rocamadour (!) although if you visit Pech Merle (which I loved) in the AM, you could do Rocamadour that afternoon. But you can also drive past Rocamadour and oooh and ahhhhh at it's setting. We thoroughly enjoyed Castelnaud, even though I'm not a real "arms" afficianado. It still gives you a nice idea of what all those parts of a castle were used for(!) and the views down the river toward Beynac's castle are really cool. I agree with Stu, it is a superior experience to Beynac. There are also fun little shops and a couple cafes in Castlenaud. We've been to the area in May and in September, and both were fine, not particularly large crowds. People were lovely.

Some of the most fun we had was just purchasing wine, fruit, sausages and bread in a market in the AM and driving around looking for wonderful picnic opportunities in some of the lovely little villages (St Leon sur Vezere has a path along the river, and will forever hold a particularly wonderful piece of my heart). Beynac is a cool little village as is La Roque Gageac. I want to go back and do a canoe trip one of these days.

Have a lovely time. StCirc - as well as being a great helpful source here - is also a lovely village. I liked it much better than Rocamodour(!)

I think the Dordogne is one of the most romantic, fairytale like places I've ever been. This year we're just doing a quick 8-days in Paris and Amsterdam, but next time we plan a trip to France, we're likely to return again to the Dordogne and the Lot.

Very interested in all of this since we will be going in September.

Does the canoe trip pick you up at the end and bring you back to the start?

We used Norbert when we departed from Roque Gageac, and I don't remember which one we used when we departed from Beynac. I think all the "outfits" are pretty much the same. Pick the one with the prettiest boat!!!

You could hit Rocamadour on the way to/from Pech Merle.

Stu Dudley

Thanks everyone! I will keep at it.

>>Does the canoe trip pick you up at the end and bring you back to the start?<<

The firm we used took us and our canoe by van to Cenac, where we departed. We then rowed (actually - my wife didn't row - she sat quietly in the bow of the canoe & didn't move), and we finished at the beach where the canoe firm was located.

Stu Dudley

We visited the Dordogne (for the second time) several years ago, in late May, for 4 nights. Nothing was crowded AT ALL, including Rocamadour. The most crowded thing were the roads leading into Sarlat, because (like at home) this time of year is the time for road construction.

One day, we visited Font du Gaume in the morning (one of the top-10 sights I have seen in my life), then had lunch in Sarlat. From there, we drove to Gouffre du Padirac (which my 11yo son loved, but I found only "fine"). After that, quite late in the day by this point, we drove to Rocamadour. We walked through the town, not spending much time (DH and I had visitied previously). IMO, it's a town that's much better viewed from a distance than actually spending time in. We then spent time at a cafe in nearby Hospitalet, which has fabulous views of Rocamadour, before driving back to Sarlat.

On the day of the Sarlat Wednesday market, as we were staying IN Sarlat, we were at the market right when it began. We picked up more food than we intended, because it all looked so good. We then visited Castelnaud (much more than just weaponry). After that, we had a picnic lunch on the river before going to Beynac (we walked up from town). I like Beynac better than Castelnaud, because I like the reconstruction work and their printed guide. After that, we still had time for a visit to Marqueyssac. Which we didn't enjoy hugely, but I think it's because we're not really garden-type people. Then back to Sarlat with lots of time for drinks before dinner.

All the canoe outfitters will either take you to a place of embarkment, and then you paddle back, or will give you directions on where to land and then come pick you up. The former option is better, as it's not uncommon to have to wait quite awhile for them to come get you.

uhoh....that's not *my* St-Cirq. Mine's better

minipam:

I notice you say you have a reservation for Lascaux. How did you come by that? I'll be there in late May, and they told me absolutely no reservations until July and August. Thanks.

Mimipam: I was wondering the same thing about the Lascaux reservations. You've had luck with that, then? Please tell.

The canoe trip was one of the highlights of our trip to the dordogne. We were there in Sept. several years ago. The water was maybe 2-3 feet deep..(This is not white water rafting). You could just float down the river,or paddle your way. There were many people in inner tubes floating down the river. We left from Cenac, in a park-like area just to the west of the bridge going into cenac. We "paddled" down the river to an area west of Beynac. The trip took 2-3 hours I think. We were picked up by a van after 10-15 minutes and driven back to Cenac. I Think the van left every half hour, but I'm not sure. As you go down the river you see Castelnaud on you left and the Beynac castle on your right. Its easy to imagine what it was like in the 100yr war. Again one of the highlights of the trip.

Thanks for all the canoe input. Does anybody except St Cirq seem to remember which outfitter they used. I hope we can get one like Stu mentions where they take you to a point and you end up back where they are located. Stu's notes say go from Cenac to Beynac for nice views. Norbert seems to have boats but no canoes - is this right?

Regarding Lascaux ll - I found the info on this site by searching. Email semitour@perigord.tm.fr You will need to send credit card payment to get the reservation.

We have Lascaux and Font de Gaume reservations on the same day. Lascaux is in the morning and FdG in mid afternoon. Does this seem like a full day? I thought there would probaly be only time for a picnic lunch between the two.

>>Does anybody except St Cirq seem to remember which outfitter they used. I hope we can get one like Stu mentions where they take you to a point and you end up back where they are located. Stu's notes say go from Cenac to Beynac for nice views. Norbert seems to have boats but no canoes - is this right?<<

Yep - I remember - but it is late here in the San Francisco area and I'll respond tomorrow. Good night !!!

Stu Dudley

Regarding Canoes, they all work the same. You leave your car at the start, and canoe down the river. Then they pick you up and bring you back in a van to the place you started. There is no need to pick a particular company. They normally come at scheduled times, and if you arrive early you can have a drink in a cafe, or have a stroll.

Most people go from Cenac, at the foot of Domme, to Beynac, the most scenic route, as you go past La Roque Gageac, Castelnaud and arrive at Beynac below the chateau. There are several agencies at Cenac.

Norbert does not do Canoes, only Gabares, the traditional boat that used to carry goods down the river, now used for touring

This: http://www.perigorddecouverte.com/ is a good site and lists all the canoe hire businesses in the region (there are loads of them!). We usually send our guests a copy of the brochure produced by Périgord Decouverte before they arrive. The brochure is available on the website in PDF format. Brantome is another good location to hire a canoe.

Re the gardens at Terrasson, be aware it's a guided tour only that lasts about an hour. You can't wander about on your own at leisure - which we found frustrating. If you enjoy gardens then the chateau at Hautefort has wonderful parks and formal gardens...and the chateau is pretty impressive too.

The canoe trip we took was a LONG trip - perhaps to long. I tried to find the place StCirq recommended - but I think they were closed at that time of year (mid Sept). We got off the D703 just west of St Vincent de Cosse & drove towards the river. When we could not find the place StCirq mentioned, we turned right & followed a van hauling lots of canoes. It stopped at a rathar large facility with lunch opportunities, and a "playland" type place across the street. There was a beach there which we needed to become familiar with so we could land there on our return. We rented our canoe & the van took us to Cenac. I would recommend, however, that you only go from Cenac to just past Beynac. If they could drop you off a little upriver from Cenac towards Vitrac, that would be better because you could probably see Domme also.

There are LOTS of places to rent canoes.

Stu Dudley

Lascaux in the morning and Font de Gaume in the afternoon is definitely not a full day. You'll have plenty of time in between, and I suggest you use it to visit La Roque St-Christophe and perhaps the Village Troglodytique de la Madeleine, and have a lovely lunch at Le Petit Léon in St-Léon-sur-Vézère. Be sure to visit the chapel there that was on the road to Compostela.

It really doesn't matter which canoe outfit you rent from. Just canoe on the Dordogne, not on the Vézère. And all of them pick you up - otherwise the entire region would be full of stranded people.

Stu, does this look the one with "playground" www.copeyre.com
They have a trip from Vitrac to Beynac and say it lasts 4 hours.
Hastobe - I will check out the site you listed. Thanks again to all of you. It seem there will not be a problem. I was just hoping to get an outfitter that would pick us up in Beynac and take us to Vitrac or thereabouts for the start. That way we could see Beynac at the end of the trip and not have to be on a shuttle timetable.

>>Stu, does this look the one with "playground"<<

Nope - not even close. The playground next to the canoe place had ropes to climb, and other typical playground apparatus. No swimming pools. I think StCirq once told me the name of the playground.

Anyway, I think we had about a 4 hr trip - which was 1 to 1 1/2 hrs too long. Once we got past Beynac, the scenery was not that great - except for a view of the top of a chateau - it may have been Milandes.

Stu Dudley

I think Stu might possibly be remembering the Aiparc Perigord in St-Vincent-de-Cosse: http://www.airparc-perigord.com/

That sure looks like it

Stu Dudley

That's the one!

If you want to get picked up in Beynac, then you rent the canoes right there in Beynac. You have your choice of length of trip, dependent, of course, on available landings.

CANOES: Copeyre (with a base in Beynac) is the one we use most often. You can park your car in the Beynac parking lot, and their shuttle will take you upstream to Vitrac for your "put-in." When you arrive back in Beynac, your car is waiting for you. Wander around Beynac if you wish, then drive on to your next destination.
Another Fodorite voted for for canoeing in Brantome and also for choosing the gardens and chateau at Hautefort over Eyrignac, Marqueyssac or Terrasson. Check your map before venturing off to either of those places as they're hours from the other sites you want to visit. Even a trip to the gardens at Terrasson can end up being a day trip for you, if you're based around Domme or La Roque-Gageac. Stick with your garden choices of Marqueyssac (basically a manicured forest with a lovely walk and great views) or Eyrignac (very formal gardens, beautiful, all about the architecture of gardens).
All three castles are well worth visits (Castelnaud, Beynac, Milandes) as they have different things to offer. Same with the caves you've mentioned: if you can only choose a few, focus on the ones that interest you the most.
The only other tip I can offer is that you should either stay longer, or start planning now for your next visit so you can see and do it all!

Thanks La Tour! This is what I need to know. I am now wondering how long to allow for each visit to the castles as I pretty much want to see all that you mentioned. Does the canoe trip from Vitrac to Beynac take 4 hours? Can you stop along the way if you want or need to? I am hoping it is not necessary to contact the canoe outfitter ahead of time. Doesn't seem so from the other posts. Should I contact them or just go?
Now if I can only decide whether to skip Figeac on this trip or try to rearrange my orignal plans? I always try to get as much in as possible in the event I don't ever get back. I am now getting exctied. Still have maps to print. Thanks to Stu for his info on what maps to get as I ordered them but want some from viamichelin site as well.
Also one other thing, for the Font de Gaume reservations is it right that you pay and then show up and present your credit card for them to see as your proof of reservations. I really want a paper in hand or confirm # but so far it seems I only pay up two weeks before and then show up.
Looking at the weather there - looks fairly cool with possible snow in the next few days. Is this global warming at work????? or maybe global cooling is now taking over.

Beynac - 1 hour
Castelnaud - 1.5 hours
Les Milandes - up to 2 hours if you stay for the falconry show, which os wonderful.

The canoe trip can take 2 hours or 4 hours depending on the current - rivers flow at different speeds on different days. If it's snowing or cold and rainy, you won't be going anyway. No, you don't have to contact the canoe outfitter in advance, except in high season. Yes, there are all kinds of places to stop along the way - the river has myriad beaches. We always stop at Castelnaud for a picnic or to get lunch at the café there and have an ice cream.

You should ask Font-de-Gaume to fax or email you confirmation and bring that with you. They aren't all that scrupulous about reservations, do you should have your own proof. They've always honored my requests for confirmations (maybe because I was taking groups through the cave, but I see no reason they wouldn't do it for an individual).

Lots of beaches on the opposite bank from Roque Gageac with fabulous views of the village. We drive/hike there often.

Stu Dudley

Since you will be in peak rose season: Eyrignac, without a doubt.
Marqueyssac is charming and a bit "sauvage". Certainly worth seeing, esp if boxwood topiary excites you.
OTOH: The hornbeam and ..umm..boxwood allee at Eyrignac is quite the equal of anything at Marqueyssac.
And those roses...!!!
Here is an album from last year. See photos 34 to 43 for photos of Eyrignac:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2025514&id=1126123095&l=8e87491a44

Thank you, Thank you!! St Cirq - the time allowed for the sites is just what I want to know - realizing of course, some of us may be slower than others. Stu, thanks once again for this insite.

tedgale - what lovely pictures! Thanks for sharing and the roses are indeed lovely. Loved ALL the photos and you certainly have an eye for placement. I just "point and shoot" for the most part sorry to say. DH takes them when I say "did you get that"?

Another question about the drive from Albi to St Cirq Lapopie - I would like to follow Stu's suggestion going from Albi to Cordes sur Ciel - Castlenau de Montmiral, Bruniquel to San Antonin Nobel Val via the gorges route. If we leave Albi after breakfast do we have time for all of this? How much time should we allow for stops in Cordes s Ciel and Castelnau de M? After seeing Ted's pictures of San Antonin it surely made me want to go there. I need at least a month for this trip - too bad for me.

I actually thought St. Antonin was a let-down. Pretty but not worth more than a half-hour. Castelnau-de-Montmiral is teensy - takes maybe 15 minutes to walk around. Bruniquel also is small - maybe a half-hour. So yes you can do all this in one day. Cordes will take up the most of your time.

Yes, a month would be good, but relax. It's not a part of the world to be frenzying through. If you miss something or have to give up going to a place, chill. The whole region is about beauty and relaxation. Don't locomotive through it.

StCirq, with your reply in mind what about from Albi to Castelnau to Cordes then Villefranche de Rouergue on the way to St Cirq Lapopie? Is this drive as scenic as the one from Bruniquel to San Antonin? Thanks so much for the reminder about beauty and relaxation!!!

Mimi, I would definitely do Albi to Cordes then Villeferanche-de-Rouergues (then Figeac) and skip St-Cirq-Lapopie, which is nothing but a tourist mecca with shops selling Made in China stuff. I hate that place. It's a Disney shop in the middle of rural France. The geographic location is enticing, but the place is just a tourist mecca, with no redeeming qualities.

Well - StCirq & I usually like the same places - but in this case I'm a fan of the Gorges de l'Aveyron area. We've spent 2 weeks in a gite there & we've explored the region quite thoroughly. I like St Cirq Lapopie - but just like lots of popular tourist spots, you need to concentrate on what the 'draw" is - and, IMO, it has some very interesting atchitecture and the setting is lovely - high on a bluff above the Lot river - not unlike Domme in the Dordogne. You don't need to visit all the shops - but I bet you will.

Both St Antonin & Villefranche are nice spots to visit on market days. Sunday am for St Antonin & I believe Wed for Villefranche. We've visited both twice, plus a few other non-market days in St Antonin. Perhaps better shopping in Villefranche - but that really depends on what kind of shops you like. I would pick the itinerary which has the fewest miles/Ks of driving.

Stu Dudley

St Cirq is correct that some of the places on your proposed route are quite small. It is perfectly feasible to stop for 15-30 minutes, wander, then get back in the car and continue. In that spirit, I'd invite you to visit little hill-top Puycelsi, which is between Castelnau de M and Bruniquel. There's also a Cordes-like partly ruined hill village called Penne, I think, a bit off the main road.

The debate over the worth of St Cirq Lapopie has raged intermittently on this forum for some years.

I'm one of those who agree with St Cirq: Anything that takes so long to get to, on such crummy roads, should have more to it than this place. Not AS bad as Rocamadour, my all-time non-fave in that region. But a disappointment.

Great information for me too. (I mentioned early in this thread that my husband and I are going to this region in September.)

Don't want to highjack this - but if anyone could give me advice on the following It would be appreciated.

We are staying overnight in Albi (arriving at 6PM on that day) and want to see the Toulouse Lautrec museum in the AM. Then we need to get, eventually, to Rocamadour where our hotel is.

What would be the most interesting route that is also feasible if we leave Albi at around noon?

I am back to my original problem it seems. How long does it take to go from Bruniel to SanAntonin? GG says Gorges de l'Aveyron round trip to allow 3 hours. Our drive would not be a round trip. Then as Stu said it is about 1 1/4 hours to St Cirq Lapopie where we have booked an overnight so as to see Pech Merle the next day. That still leaves me the next day with a decision as to skip Figeac this time and continue on to Rocamadour and Sarlat. You have all been so helpful and patient. I know I must just decide. Still I want to know how long the drive is from Bruniel to SanAntonin?

kenav - others surely know better than me, but I have looked at maps til I'm crazy. It seems that from Albi to Rocamadour you might go to Cordes s Ciel (@30 min from Albi) then to Villefranche de Rouergue (@ an hour I think) and then to Figeac (another hour) and on to Rocamadour. I will give you the same suggestion that ira gave me - have you checked viamichelin and mappy? Happy travels!!!

One other question, which drive do you think is the prettiest - between Bruniel and San Antonin or from Figeac to St Cirp Lapopie???

Mimipam: I believe it's about half an hour on the D115 between Bruniquel and Saint-Antonin-Noble-Val.

As you may recall from earlier threads, I was planning to take this same route myself this year and am considering the following stops as a linear day-long venture from Cordes-sur-Ciel: Castlenau-de-Montmiral, Puycelci, Bruniquel, Penne, possibly Saint-Antonin-Noble-Val and then O/N in Cabrerets. I'm also still trying to decide which of these stops to make as different sources recommend different villages.

Please let us know what you decide & how it turns out for you!

Oops: I'm planning to take the same route NEXT year. Getting a little too eager, I guess. Anyway, good luck & keep us posted.

BTW: Tedgale, I loved your photos, too. I'm going to show them to DH so he can start getting a little more jazzed about the trip.

The drive from Bruniquel to St Antonin Noble Val is 24 mins

St Cirque Lapopie to Figeac is 1 hr, then it is another hour to Rocamadour. St Cirq Lapopie to Rocamadour directly is 1 1/2 hrs

St Cirq to Figeac along the Cele is prettier, IMO. There are some interesting houses attached to the sides of rock bluffs along the way, and the drive along the river with a cute 10-min-visit village is enjoyable.

But, I think you are missing the big picture. If you are starting the day in Albi, and want to take a scenic drive to St Cirq Lapopie - you will be going right past Bruniquel and St Antonin, but the 24 mins will be a small part of your day.

Same idea with visiting Figeac. Although the two driving options are only 30 mins different, you should plan to spend a min of 1 hr in Figeac - 1 1/2 is better.

Also, these decisions can be makde at the last minute. Wait & see what you feel like, how early of a start you get, when the Pech Merle visit ends, how much you dawdle along the way, how much time lunch takes, is it rainy & cold, do you want to visit another city (Figeac) after Albi???

Stu Dudley

>>St Cirq to Figeac along the Cele is prettier, IMO. There are some interesting houses attached to the sides of rock bluffs along the way, and the drive along the river with a cute 10-min-visit village is enjoyable.<<

Stu, do you recall any villages in particular which you might recommend for that 10-minute quick stop along the Cele, e.g., Espagnac-Sainte-Eulalie?

(Sorry to hijack your thread mimipam.)

Mimipam: If you went to Figeac from Pech Merle and only spent about an hour, then you could probably still "swing by" Rocamadour for pictures, even if you couldn't spend a lot of time there. It certainly does make sense as it only adds about 1/2 an hour to your drive time (1:58 as opposed to 1:35 straight between Figeac and Sarlat). Some seem to say that the actual view of Rocamadour from a distance is better than venturing into the crowded streets of the place itself.

>>could probably still "swing by" Rocamadour for picture<<

That view from l'Hospitalet is only good in the morning. In the afternoon, the sun will be in your face and the views will be blurred. If you arrive when the sun exposure is not good, drive along the D32 road south of Rocamadour & you can look up at the village for a very good view.

My Michelin maps are a mess - I make notes on them. The village of Espagnac is noted as "very cute", Marcilhac as "cute", Liauzu as "interesting", and Cabrerets as "nice". We've drivin this route 3 times - and I think we only got out of the car once to walk around either Espagnac or Marcilhac. The others we enjoyed through the car window.

Stu Dudley

Thanks, Stu. Messy notes or not, that still helps a lot.

>>that still helps a lot.<,

Actually, the Cele.

Stu Dudley

>>Actually, the Cele.<<

Meaning, forget worrying about which village in particular 'cause it's really the whole route?

Yes, I imagine much of the Lot & Dordogne is that way. Stop concentrating on which roses smell the best; just relax & enjoy the garden. Well, at least were lucky to have Fodorites help choose the best paths to take through such a big garden.

Your maps must be a veritable diary of sorts.

I was actually making a (poor) joke - the Cele River vs. the Lot River (both between St Cirq Lapopie & Figeac).

But your statment is a good one. Don't ever get too caught up on village hopping - enjoy the countryside, the pace, picnics, interesting venues - but make sure that you pick a good route with many "opportunities" along the way. I enjoy a 3 hr drive with six 1-star villages along the way, more than a 3 hr drive between 2 three-star villages/cities.

France is loaded with many charming & interesting 1-star & 0-star "things". We didn't discover this till we retired and started to stay 2 weeks in just one spot & explore the stuff in the immediate area. Then we would drive to the next "spot" for 2 more weeks, and see what's there.

Stu Dudley

I think/hope I am making real progress. I have been looking at michelin to get from St Antonin Noble Val to St Cirq Lapopie. They have three suggested routes NONE of which go on the A20 as Stu suggested in one of his "posts". If I go through Caussade and get on A20 where do we exit - -all the way up towards St Gery or closer? The three rec michelin routes all say they take about 1 hr to 1 hr 11 min. However, I know the roads are probably not as good so how good they be as fast as A20?

mimi, if your aim is to spend the day in rural settings seeing pretty villages, which it seems to be, you won't want to get on the A20 at all - it's the highway. You want N and D roads. Just pick one. And FWIW, I like www.mappy.com a lot better than Michelin.

Oh yes, duh. . .I see the pun now and it's actually a pretty good one! (At first, your short quip left me thinking, "Huh?" Unfortunately, this format can't catch the proper timing, just like tone of voice/inflection can't carry. Your voice in person would naturally have emphasized the word "lot.")

Anyway, thinking of these routes (Cele, Gorges de l'Aveyron, the Dordogne) more as open-ended opportunities goes a long way toward proper attitude adjustment. Just point your car in the right direction on a scenic route and see what pops up along the way. I like that thought! Such "planned meandering," even for a first-timer, seems sensible to intersperse with days that require more attention to scheduling.

But if you do want to take the A20, in the interest of time or whatever, yes, get off in Cahors and head to St-Géry. Good luck - the snarl around Cahors can be a bit daunting, and there always seems to be construction and déviations.

But see, you could bypass St-Antonin-Noble-Val altogether and save you a lot of time and wandering for what, to me, isn't a destination it's worth going out of the way for. Just go Albi to Cordes to Villefranche and then take the D24 to St-Cirq-Lapopie.

Mimi: I haven't used mappy so much, but I'm rather enamored with Google maps. Their route has one taking D roads straight north between St-Antonin and St-Cirq-Lapopie, mainly the D19. It does appear to take about an hour (56 min) whereas the unscenic A20 would take an hour & 27 minutes!

Here is what I would do:

Tour the Gorges de l'Aveyron till you are about 1 3/4 hrs from when you want to be in St Cirq Lapopie. Try to end your Aveyron drive near St Antonin Noble Val. Then get on the D5 heading northwest from St Antonin. Have the passenger look back at St Antonin while you are on the D5, and drive until you loose sight of St Antonin. Turn the car around & drive back towards St Antonin - there is a wonderful view of St Antonin from this road.

Turn the car around & head northwest on the D5 again, then west on the D926 towards Caussade, then get on the A20 north towards Cahors. Side note - near Stepfonds at the D5/D926 interesection, look a little north on your Michelin 337 map & find the village of Cayriech - we stayed in a gite there for 2 weeks.

Get off the A20 just past Cahors at exit #57 and head east on the small D49 towards Cours. At Cours, get on the D166 east to the larger D653 heading south to the Lot River. At Vers, get on the very scenic D662 heading east on the north side of the Lot River. Go all the way to Tour de Faure, cross the Lot River, and take the D40 west for a short distance to St Cirq Lapopie. You'll get a nice view of St Cirq from the D40, as I recall.

Driving times:
- St Antonin to Caussade - 20 mins plus 15 mins for turnaround, view & pics
- Caussade on A20 to Cours - 40 mins
- Cours to St Cirq Lapopie - 30 mins.

Total driving time - 1 hr 30 mins + 15 mins for view.

This is 30 mins longer than the Michelin recommended route, but the roads to Cours are straight, easy to follow, and fast. Once you are off the A20, the remaining 30 minute drive is quite scenic. The Michelin recommended route is not as scenic znd all the roads are small country roads. You may welcome a straight & fast road at this point. (note - we stayed very near the Mich route in Cayriech)

Stu Dudley

Time-wise, if your skipping the scenic D964 route described in Stu's notes, then it doesn't seem to make much different whether you do Cordes > St-Antonin > St-Cirq-Lapopie or whether you go from Cordes > Villefranche > Lapopie. It's apparently 1:22 versus 1:26.

BTW: I was typing at the same time Stu was, so I meant his full, separate Lot notes, not his post above.

(For my part, I think I may go with Stu's latest post. That timing works for me w/my own plan; but I'll keep in mind what St-Cirq said about St-Antonin not really being worth a stop.)

Again, please let us know what you decide & how it turns out, Mimi. You're so close - you must be excited!

>>whereas the unscenic A20 <<

Does Google say that the A20 is unscenic??? I thought it was OK. I didn't find the D9 (goes through Cayriech - don't blink or you will miss it), D17/D42, then several small roads to St Cirq to be very scenic. This is a hard-to-follow route, also. Note that the D17 road changes its name to the D42 when it passes from the Dept of the Tarn & Garonne to the Dept of the Lot - it is the same exact road - just changes names. This is common in France when you go from one dept to another - and quite confusing when you all-of-a-sudden find yourself on a different numbered road - pay attention to your map.

Stu Dudley

>>Does Google say that the A20 is unscenic???<<

No, but that's probably next on their agenda as they perfect Street Maps (grin). Actually, I just inferred that from StCirq's comments, but on closer inspection she did not actually say so either, she just said, "[I]f your aim is to spend the day in rural settings seeing pretty villages, which it seems to be, you won't want to get on the A20 at all - it's the highway. You want N and D roads."

Now, google's street maps do take you to views of the A20, which doesn't seem so bad, but it doesn't show the D & N roads, so I don't have that comparison.

Since I'm not really in a position to give experienced advice or assistance to mimipam, I should admittedly just shut my trap. (Sheepish grin.)

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!! Now I think we can do this. It is a very good point that after having driven on small roads all day we may be ready for a little change for awhile. I will definitely check this out. I am inclined to follow Stu's advice because he was right on for Provence. As to St Antonin, the main thing is that I really wanted a little drive time in this gorges area. If time is really short we may have to skip this part and go from Bruniquel to St Cirq L. Hope not. Seems that just getting to the Dordogne valley has caused me a lot more effort than I thought. Worth it I'm sure. Just as I'm getting comfortable with Michelin now I'm going to mappy and google - what fun! You are all great - again thanks. WIll be back I'm sure with a few (I hope just a few) questions. Now to get all this organized and pack. Yeah!!!

>>"[I]f your aim is to spend the day in rural settings seeing pretty villages, which it seems to be, you won't want to get on the A20 at all <,

It is difficult to see the small villages from the A20 because the "on & off" spots from the A20 are few & far between. We've driven from Cayriech to St Cirq twice and also quite a bit immediatly around Cayriech. There are really no interesting small villages in this region, compared to those around the Gorges de l'Aveyron, along the Lot River, and close to the Dordogne River.

Stu Dudley

Stu, I have been looking at my map and found your spot Cayriech. No wonder you seem to know this area so well as you were right there.

Oh jeez, just get in the car and drive already. This is just too much. As I've said in the past, it's a region to be savored and chill out in. Honestly, just do what sap said and point your car in the direction you want to do and do it. Stop obsessing. I'm done with this.

I will have to agree with StCirq on this one...you're spending a lot of time and energy sweating the small stuff. This part of France is one where sometimes you'll be best off just getting in the car (with a good road map in hand) and wandering, just keeping your nose pointed in the right direction. It's all well and good to have a destination and a few "must see" spots in mind, but honestly and truly -- you must keep yourself open to the unexpected, the unknown, the elements of surprise and revelation. Please try not to get worried about being "lost" (whatever that means). You are never really lost; you're just in a place you didn't expect to be. Travel with open eyes, an open mind and an open heart -- and keep the fuel tank topped off! Just my deux centimes...

Another agreement to chill out - and a note on our experience. We live here, but still like to explore the region. So yesterday went out with a group on a well-planned, potentially interesting and beautiful day. In the morning dolmens, prehistoric tombs, close to Caussade, then lunch and tour of Bruniquel. Finally Monpezat de Quercy for church, with 23 metres of tapestries.

Except that, despite having unusually hot (31) weather last week, yesterday was unusually cold, 8 degrees- and wet! So we spent the worst day of the last few weeks tracking around the woods in a glacial wind, the afternoon tracking up and down the usually pretty streets of Bruniquel freezing and soaked, even with umbrellas and rain gear. (We did have a good lunch though!)We didn't get snow, but Carcassonne did.

All to say that no matter how you plan, you can't control everything. Leave yourself some time to explore, and to change when necessary.

I lied. Google Maps Street View does cover many of the D roads in that area. It's a great way to get a feel for what those roads are like & compare their scenery; but they all look relatively pretty & pleasantly similar to me, so I doubt any route would be a poor choice.

Bookmarked. Great info here. Thanks.

DaveMM

Yeah, the best info was "Stop obsessing, get in the car and go".

I would like to reply to all of you who told me to stop obsessing. I am now back from my trip (which was wonderful) and I can tell you that all my planning paid off for us bigtime as for as I'm concerned. There were things that were important for me to see and I sure didn't want to waste a lot of time "being lost" although some of you seem to enjoy that. Also, if you are tired of "helping" (which most of you really did help- thanks!) then just quit posting replies.

Mimipam: I'm so glad to hear that since I'm totally obsessive, too. Now I'm revising my itinerary per some suggestions from my DH, who has finally started to take an interest and suddenly suggested we should change a few things around. (Gr-r-r-r) That means I'm freaking out all over again and going back over the whole plan.

Could you pretty please post a trip report when you have time so I can get some more "feet on the ground" ideas from you? As you might remember, the trip I'm planning next year is very similar to the one you just took and any info at all helps so-o-o much.

Thanks and welcome home.

mimipan, we all DID just quit posting, as I'm sure you noted.

Glad you're back and had a good trip.