Don't kill me - 88 days in Paris Airbnb?

Old Aug 31st, 2015, 04:38 PM
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Don't kill me - 88 days in Paris Airbnb?

Work brings me to Paris, which will be my hub and I will be in/out a bit over the limited (under 90 days) time given to me so for various reasons, Paris is my home base. The time period is mid-January 2016 - early/mid April, 2016.

I've checked Airbnb and also read forum threads here but the mention of Airbnb in Paris is all over the map and I apologize profusely but 1. Is Airbnb a relatively good idea for Paris with the conflict over the new laws which may or may not be in effect. 2. What area would be the most safe for a professional (read mature) woman alone. 3. Since it's such a long stay I've already seen the price point drop and am quite clear on my requirements (washer/secure/kitchen/private bath/no room share).

I've been to Paris many times and traveled quite a bit but it's always in hotels. I used an apartment rental in Villefranche-sur-mer March/April 2014 and it was ok but I got ripped off using the GBP vs the Euro and would like to avoid that if at all possible as well.

Thank you!
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 05:06 PM
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Good luck with the local naysayers.

You will find some people attempting to help.

But then, as you have probable already seen, the Mississippi guy and the Belgium guy, they love to dump on this type of thread.

They are so nice!!
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 05:29 PM
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I'd also consider homeaway and vrbo. If you set the filters for Managed By Owner, as well as any other criteria that's important to you, there are many excellent options. I've used them for 6-7 years with no hiccups.

Many owners will offer a month for the price of three weeks.

There are any number of areas that you'd be happy with, I should think. Do you want a lively area? Or a more quiet, neighborhood feel? All of central Paris is quite safe, so really, it's more a question of where a specific apartment is situated. A block or two can make a big difference in noise factors.

Make sure there are at least 3-4 good, recent reviews. Often, the reviews will mention quiet or noise, so you might look for that as well.

Also, you can do a google walk around the address, and make sure there aren't any bars or restaurants that might be noisy into the wee hours.
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 05:43 PM
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I have used Home Away with great success.

Just as I have used Airbnb in Paris, also with great success this past July.

The manager was waiting for us and we were able to get into the apartment a few hours early.

specialapartments.com
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 06:03 PM
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Are you completely self-employed? If not, your professional compatriots should be part of this process of helping you find secure lodgings. I have no moral problems with Airbnb. I use them in Italy. But I would hesiate to move to Paris for 3 months without knowing I had lined up a secure place to stay. You will need more assurance than what Airbnb or Iris can offer you.

Whatever bitterness people here feel about Airbnb or other internet rental hook-ups being criticized, the problem is that you are looking for secure lodgings, and the present situation with Paris law is not secure.

Iris745 is the bandwagon to prove lots of "Fodorites" wrong, but she has no personal experience of long-term rental in Paris under the present conditions. You are free to listen to her if you want and follow her advice, and even agree with her that those who are telling you to be careful are to be sneered at and dismissed as fear-mongers -- hey, what does it matter to me?

But if you are coming here for back-up to the idea that it is just a smart thing to take advantage of those low Airbnb or VRBO prices and the ease of booking despite the Paris crackdowns, I don't understand why. You've obviously read enough to know there is a risk. People here -- not even Iris -- can jawbone that risk away.
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 06:20 PM
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<People here---not even iris--can jawbone the risk away>

That's true--let's see, Airbnb with an estimated 40,000 units in Paris, I wonder how many have been shut down?

Perhaps Sandralist can answer that question.

Then there is a meeting between Paris officials and Airbnb in a few months.

Is that reverent?

It seems like the naysayers never tell the whole story, just the periphery.
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 06:25 PM
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I know, I know, relevant.

Is that relevant, Sandralist??
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 06:57 PM
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I can only speak from my own experience. I spent four months in Paris two years ago and rented via vrbo. A friends was there earlier this year and used Sabbaticalhomes.com.

You'll have a great time I'm sure. I really like Paris in the off season.
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/search/label/Paris
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 09:32 PM
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Iris is not a she - he's a he. A good "dribbler" too!!

Stu Dudley
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 10:25 PM
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Sabbatical Homes was the first agency we rented from when we moved to France while my wife completed her fellowship in Montpelier - they were suggested by the university there. Afterwards, we rented 3 appartements from them in Paris - totalling a year's time - before we bought our apartment, and would highly recommend them. This site is geared to professionals, and not the average vacationer just looking for a place to stay.

People who rave about AirBnB in Paris have been lucky or just like to stir the pot. AirBnB rentals in Paris are not secure, for several reasons. The main problem is that many (the City says "most") units are illegally sublet - when the neighbors complain to the owner, the tenant (not the tourist) can lose his lease, and the tourist will have to find another appartement.

Also, there are a huge number of AirBnB listings which are illegal rentals (nobody lives there) and have migrated to this site from the usual listing portals. It's easy to reference these, and they should be avoided, since they are being investigated by the Mayor's task force.
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 11:24 PM
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manouche,


I'm a big fan of Sabbatical Homes too, and I have used it frequently.But just to be clear it's no more an agency than vrbo, or air bnb. You don't rent from them they just facilitate you renting from someone else and often this is a sublet. Like vrbo and airbnb , it is a clearing house though in their case it's a little more selective as a lot of the time you are dealing with others in the academic community.
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Old Aug 31st, 2015, 11:36 PM
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wtbrit - I agree, but we have always found that the properties were better curated - for lack of a better word - than having to plow through the great unknowns on vrbo, etc. We have also rented on a short-term basis from individuals - vrbo, homeaway, wimdu - but wouldn't recommend them for a longer stay.
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 01:07 AM
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YooperLJ

I suppose your case is different than what Iris points to :
You come for work, you need 88 days, on a row, probably at same appartment.
So the appt you would rent would be using nearly all the lenght of rental allowed by the new ALUR law (max rental is about 4 month).
And you will want an invoice in order to put this in your profit and loss.
So with all these elements, you should be able to find a legit appartment on Airbnb or other.


Iris : thanks so much for your opinion about the Belgian guy, seems at least you recognize I have an input on this !

What you keep saying is that there will be talk between Airbnb and the city - for whatever that means, and I stated last time you brought this up, there are talks between Tehran and USA about nuclear program, and there are talks between Israel and Palestinians.

Apart from this, and apart from saying that everybody disagreeing with you is a fearmonger, how do you contribute to this thread ?

Are you the one who will be there ifever somebody rents from an illegal appartment and the OP finds a closed door ?
Are you the one who will be paying the fines to the city ?
Are you the one who can say : this appartment is legal, this one is not, and it will be so in 2016 ?

You know nothing about the situation, which is still unclear. But when you read the articles (in french, because they are locals) from the national newspapers, these articles say that there is a crackdown on illegal rentals and that the last campaigns of check yielded about 15% of illegal rentals, and that new campaigns are planned.
Regardless of the talks that can/should/will take place with the 'city' (whatever you mean by that).

The Belgium guy.

Ps : some useful info (in French... ) that people like IRIS will never provide :
https://www.legalife.fr/blog/regleme...-courte-duree/

With the killing sentence about revenues to be declared...
Quelles conséquences fiscales ?

Quelle que soit l’origine du bien loué, vous devez déclarer les revenus que vous en tirez à l’administration fiscale. Vous pouvez opter pour deux régimes déclaratoires :

Some info about a STRENGTHENING of the law - Mrs Duflot wants he name associated, it seems...

http://www.pap.fr/actualites-old/loi...urbaine/a15880
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 02:01 AM
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Then there is a meeting between Paris officials and Airbnb in a few months.

Is that reverent?



If you mean is that relevant, then the answer is that for the renter, it is completely irrelevant. The meetings with the mayor´s office and airbnb have everything to do with airbnb´s not collecting and paying the taxe de séjour and absolutely nothing to do with the apartments they advertise being renting illegally.

There is no law prohibiting airbnb or any other internet service form advertising black market vacation rentals. All of the laws, primarily ALUR, in reference to short term rentals are directed toward owners. To my knowledge, airbnb owns none of the apartments they advertise.
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 02:23 AM
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Many thanks for the input so far. I will check into the Sabbatical (sounds interesting and hadn't heard of it) as well as the other options. Quiet neighborhood would be nice and I don't drink/smoke (I'm a Californian as well - bi-coastal, so there's that element) but I'm also a "when in Rome" person and have been to Paris many times but always on business and racing about. Seen all the big sights so that's not a high priority. Being near the Jardins des Plants would be nice because, for personal sanity, I'm a gardener so the 4th, 5th, 3rd, whatever would be helpful but not necessary. Outlying areas would be fine but not ideal.

I'm, too long/who-cares story why, self-employed as a professional fundraiser so the cost quotient is of importance when reimbursement comes around. My last gig, for instance, was to help organize a local event for the Citadel in VSM and this time it's for a hospice yacht for end-of-life adults; sort of a Make a Wish for adults which doesn't seem to exist anywhere else in the world. I need to meet with donors and lawyers in France as well as Belgium while there. TMI, but gives you an idea of why cost is essential. Not a back breaker because I'll pay for safety and accessibility but only up to a reasonable point for any project's bottom line.

Thank you again. I'd really like to be able to pay by euro with the euro dropping a bit right now and also wondered about the VAT. Any word on that or is that a non-issue? Do you get reimbursement for that upon leaving or does that raise red flags?
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 02:24 AM
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Make that "Plantes"
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 02:41 AM
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As a matter of practice many properties are listed on multiple sharing sites. We have usually rented through VRBO (now Homeaway) but it would not be a surprise to see the same property listed with Airbnb and others, so most cringing around that particular company is unwarranted.

I've never had a problem with people renting a spare room in their house or flat. It was the original model for B&B's in Britain, and I think the presence of the owner is likely to discourage excess on the part of the renters. Of course, who is there to protect the renters from the owner?
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 03:01 AM
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You don't get reimbursed for the VAT for anything you consume inside the country. You will be "consuming" your rental apartment. It's not like buying a bottle of perfume to stay home.

Unless I am mistaken, you need to have a verifiable academic affiliiation to register with Sabbatical Houses.

Are you looking for a room in flat to share in Paris? Or are you looking for a place all to yourself? Because there is no risk issue for the former. The risk is renting an apartment from ANYBODY -- or through an agency, or an internet facilitator, a personal contact -- who is renting it illegally and who might suddenly pull the apartment off the market, after you have booked it, to avoid paying huge fines. For people going to Paris for a week, the problem is solved by booking a hotel room as a back up and canceling the hotel if the apartment contract holds up. In your case, your options to create a security back up look more than daunting.

There are many reports on Fodor's on other message boards from people who thought they had locked up an apartment rental in Paris but who got a notice from the owner or agency that the apartment was no longer availaible due to "works" or "plumbing problems". No one can prove that the sudden unavailability wasn't due to "works", so if that reassures you that there is no risk in renting an illegal apartment, that's the way your mind works.

People assess risk in different ways. In reality, anybody's risk of getting cancer is very small. Anybody's risk of getting a heart attack is well below 50-50. Anybody's chances of dying from a progressive disease, a ruptured organ, you name it -- is really very, very low. There are people who look at those low risks and conclude they are immortal. What are the chances of dying? Pretty small.

In reality, the risk of anything happening to you is 50 - 50. Either it will happen or it won't. The law in Paris is a fact. You are not in control of the person who is renting you their apartment. If I were in the business of illegally renting out an apartment in Paris to strangers, I would be looking to protect my interests ahead of your interests. Something tells me that if Iris were illegally renting an apartment he owned in Paris, he would be doing the same, despite his insistence that the chances of his getting caught are not worth thinking about.

If I needed to have an apartment in Paris for 3 months in the near future, I would familiarize myself with law ahead of where to find gardening opportunities.
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 08:32 AM
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I'd really like to be able to pay by euro with the euro dropping a bit right now and also wondered about the VAT.


There is no VAT on black market apartment rentals. Many of these owners demand cash and never report the income. Short term rentals are effectively commercial ventures of which few are licensed, regulated or insured.

There is currently a crackdown on illegal apartments in Paris. Renters are not thrown out nor fined. The risk for you is that any illegal apartment can be withdrawn from the market at any time.

You might also consider legal short term apartments such as Citadine or Adagio:

http://www.citadines.com/en/index.html
http://www.adagio-city.com/gb/home/index.shtml
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Old Sep 1st, 2015, 09:04 AM
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YOu can't get a VAT refund on apartment rentals any more than you could get a VAT refund if you stayed in a hotel.

I don't know about any meeting between Airbnb and Paris officials in a couple months, haven't read about it in the French press, but I know Airbnb is having their big annual host convention in Paris in a couple months (which is rather ironic as Paris is their largest presence, I believe). So there will be thousands of Airbnb hosts in Paris, learning the tricks of the trade. They have agreed to collect the hotel tax per day directly now, that just started, I believe. So Airbnb now collects it rather than the owner. But that's less than a euro a day, so won't harm business.

I'd find some place that fits the requirements first (that long a stay, has everything you want, price acceptable, etc), before worrying about details. There is no one particular area in Paris that is safe for anyone to stay, single woman or not. Not meaning they are all dangerous, but there isn't just one area that is safe. I'd just make sure it had good transportation options first, then other things. I don't think being a professional woman has anything to do with anything in regards to that.
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