elmo218

Hello,

I am traveling to Switzerland for 5 days during early March 2006. I plan to do some traveling via the highly acclaimed trains.

I will be purchasing a swiss pass or flex pass. However, I wanted to know if anyone has comments regarding getting 1st class or 2nd class. I am traveling with 4 adults, one teenager and one 4 year old. I don't mind paying the diference.

Any comments appreciated.

Intrepid1

First will have fewer seats in the same amount of space where there are more seats in 2nd.

First will fill up more slowly than 2nd because it is more expensive

Sometimes windows in 2nd open and don;t in First

For "scneic" trains such as the Glacier Express which carry "panorama cars" these are usually only for First Class passengers. these P-cars have much larger windows for viewing the scenery.

Patrick

But having ridden the Glacier Express several times -- always in First, let me say, I'll never again sit in a panoramic car which works like an oven in the full sun!

If you don't mind paying the difference then DEFINITELY get the first class passes. By the way, another nice advantage is the pass gives you free passage on all the lake steamers, which is a nice way to pass a couple hours in the evening if you are anywhere near them. With the first class pass you go to the much nicer and less crowded upper deck. Second class is confined to the lower deck.

Desert_Sue

FIRST always!!!

suze

1st class is less crowded with bigger seats. Usually quieter too. If you get caught during a commute time (say coming out of Geneva at 6:00pm) it will be way less crowded than 2nd.

If you don't mind paying the difference, I'd definitely say go for 1st.

aggiemom

First Class it is! We bought a SaverPass for Benelux/Germany in May and it was $225 per person for First versus $195 per person for Second. So we're only talking 30 bucks here.

First Class also came in handy when we just jumped on a train and sat in Second because it was only a short trip - we couldn't have done the reverse (go to First with a Second Pass).

elmo218

Thank you all for your comments and recommendations.

It's unanimous. 1st Class it will be.

: o )

Cicerone

I lived in Switzerland for 4 years unitl June and almost always traveled 2nd class on trains in Switzerland and 1st class on trains outside Switzerland. There is not a lot of difference in the quality of the cars (which is not the case in say Italy, where 1st class cars are generally new, cleaner and nicer). The other advantage of first class is there are fewer people, however in March unless you are doing a lot of traveling on weekends or at rush hours on peak lines like out of Geneva, you are not going to run into crowded trains. Also, the ferries are not running in March, so you won't get to take advantage of the first class ferry rides (where 1st class is better I totally agree.) I also agree that on the "experience trains" like the Glacier Express the first class Panorama trains are better (and usually air conditioned, so don't understand the comment above; you won't need air conditioning in March). To throw in my two cents, March is not the greatest month to visit Switzerland, although in the mountains you probably will still have snow, esp in early March, hard to predict. But places like the Lake Geneva area will be a bit brown, wet and cold as it is not Spring yet.

If the price difference is not great between the two, then it is fine to go with the 1st class, but IMO first class on Swiss trains is not worth a great price differential. Save the money for other things, as Swiitzerland is pretty expensive.

elmo218

Thank you Cicerone for you comments.

I would like if others can comments on what Cicerone says about Switzerland in March. We plan to be there March 15 - 19. We are looking to take several scenic train rides. (Are they indeed scenic in mid March) and also take in a day of skiing (The last day of course, as we will not have anything left after that).

Your advise is appreciated.

stardust

I don't have experience with Swiss trains, but I do agree with elmo that March probably isn't the best time to visit Switzerland. It isn't very likely that there will be enough snow left for good skiing, unless you go to a really high area or a glacier, and the meadows aren't blooming yet.

Cicerone

The point of my original post was that in lower elevations you will find cold temps, dirty snow patches, mud and bare trees, and no ferries running on the lakes, which makes it kind of an unattractive month to sightsee (much like March in many places on the east coast of the US). The vineyard area around Geneva is especially depressing, IMO, because they are so brown and without the ferries it is not quite as fun to get around, outdoor cafes aren't open, days are still on the short side, etc, that was why I would say to wait until later if the focus of the trip is the Lake Geneva area, Zurich or lower elevation areas like Neuchatel or the Jura mountain region. If you want to stay just in the mountains then March is OK, but sorry your post didn't seem to indicate this.

Skiing is the one thing that would be OK to do, IMO. I did not realize this was on your itinerary. Where are you planning on skiing? You should still find OK snow in mid-March, although you may also encounter rain, it will be a matter of luck, but odds are better that it will be quite cold. Definitely ski in the morning on sunny days as things will be getting quite soft by the afternoon.

Activities like cross country skiing, hiking and winter walks may not be possible as it may be too wet to machine pack the trails, it will really depend on how much snow there has been that winter and how warm the temps have been in the week or so before your arrival.

The "experience trains" I think are going to be a mixed bag. Starting out in lower elevations like Chur on the Bernina Express, you may encounter rain or fog which will interfere with views, getting up into higher elevations it may well clear as you get above the cloud line.

elmo218

Hello again Cicerone. I thank you for you first hand observations. That is why I am doing all of the research now. I would have loved to see the beautifull countryside that everyone talks about. However, I understand now that at the time I am arriving there, it will not be possible. That said, we do love to ski and skiing the Alps was one of your goals of this trip.

Which higher elevation resort would you reccomend, keeping in mind that I have a 4 year old and 15 year old who will ski for the first time. Basically, a family freindly place. Also, which scenic train rides would you reccomend for this time of the year. We arrive via Geneva Airport.

Sorry for all the questions. However, if you have any input, it is very much appreciated.

Again thank you for your comments.

Cicerone

I have been trying to think of a plan that would allow you to get in some good skiing but also see some of the other mountain regions of Switzerland. Zermatt would be my first choice as a place to learn to ski, and it is also beautiful and has other activities, but you probably don't want to spend all your time there, and it is a bit out of the way for getting to other mountain parts of Switzerland. Gstaad is another choice, however, I don't think that is quite as good a place for beginners to learn to ski. It does have a charming little village area and is in a pretty valley. Also, you could take the Golden Pass train from Geneva to Gstaad, which would give you one of the scenic train rides you are looking for. From Gstaad you could also get over to the Jungfrau area which is probably the most beautiful mountain region in the country (but I would not recommend it for beginner skiers). It would be longish for a day trip from Gstaad to the Jungfrau area in the Bernese Oberland, but with 5 days, maybe you could split time between the two; take the Golden Pass first all the way to Interlaken and go up to the Jungfrau area from there for 3 days, then go back to Gstaad for the last 2 days to ski and then head back to Geneva airport.

You might want to play around with train schedules at rail.ch to see what works.

For info on the Golden Pass train go to goldenpass.ch

If you don't mind a longish series of train rides you could combine the Jungfrau with Zermatt which would give you great Alp memories and some excellent train rides. You could take the Golden Pass train from Geneva airport to the Bernese Oberland area (5.5 hours) and spend 3 days there seeing the countryside. As early as you can stand it on the 4th day, take the train to Zermatt (5 hours) and spend 2 days there to see the Matterhon and ski on your last day. (Train times are to and from Wengen up in the mountains, my favorite village in the BO.) Assuming you have an early am flight to the US, you could take an evening train back to Geneva airport on you last day (4 hours) and stay overnight at the airport.

I think Zermatt is great for learning to ski, and in particular, the Gornegrat section of the mountain. This has a very wide, treeless open area of gentle slopes that make for easy skiing and learning. You also have the option of taking the train down the mountain if you don't want to ski all the way down at the end of the day. Overall, Zermatt offers a lot of good skiing for a beginner, plus it is very beautiful, has a charming car-free village and of course has the beautiful Matterhorn looming over it all. You should find snow there in mid-March as it is quite high in elevation. Not sure what your hotel budget is, you might search this board as I have recco'd hotels in the past, if you give me a budget would be happy to repeat it.

Another good choice for skiing and outdoor activities would be Saas Fe, which is in the valley adjacent to Zermatt. Saas Fe has less of a south/west exposure and is therefore likely to have a bit more snow in March, it is usually one of the places where you can ski the latest in the year in Switzerland. It also has a very nice town, much smaller than Zermatt, also car-free and family friendly. The town does not get the day-trippers that Zermatt does so is quieter (but you don't notice the day trippers on the slopes anyway) and gets more Swiss people and skiers than foreign tourists. There is some good cross country skiing down in the valley as well; it hard to say if this would still be happening in mid-March, probably would be. You could also make a day trip to Zermatt from here if you wanted, about an hour or so. The Saas Fe valley is quite beautiful and surrounded by high Alps but does not have the drama of the Matterhorn. The one slight draw back to Saas Fe if you don't have a car is that there is no train service, so you have to take a bus for the last leg which is a bit of a pain IMO if you have luggage, etc. I can recco some hotels there. From Geneva Airport, the trip would be about 3.5 hours.

In any place you go could get easily rent equipment and get ski lessons, either group or private, for your kids in English. Most places also have outdoor skating rinks, cross country skiing and sledding/sledging. Zermatt has some horse drawn sleigh rides, as does Saas Fe down in the valley, not sure about the Jungfrau region, I would imagine you could do this at the bottom of the valley in Lauterbrunnen or Grindelwald.

If you go to Zermatt or Saas Fe, a logical "experience train" to do would be the Glacier Express from Zermatt to St Mortiz. I have to say that IMO this is not the most scenic of the trains, and it is expensive and takes almost 8 hours to get to St Mortiz. From St Mortiz it will take you another 6 hours to get to back to Geneva, and so I am not sure this is the best use of your time. (If you can fly out of Zurich this would be better, you can get to Zurich from St Moritz in about 3.5 hours.) Overall, you might prefer to spend your money going up cable cars, the Gornegrat train, taking a sleigh ride (none of which are cheap) rather than the Glacier Express. You will also have the train ride from Geneva to Zermatt or wherever you end up skiing which will certainly be a pretty ride.

WallyKringen

Since you have the money, no question, make it first. You'll have a much better chance at sitting together more often (even when you don't go to the trouble of reserving seats), more space, a quieter, more reserved environment (hushed conversation, polite demeanor) - you'll quickly get the hang of it.

However, if you want a livelier scene, talking loudly amongst yourselves, swapping seats to share the views, etc., I suggest you take 2nd class where that sort of thing is less frowned upon.

For the Swiss, having a good time doesn't equate necessarily with being noisy - that's one of the major cultural differences between Americans and Swiss.

2nd class is not shabby, it's just not as swank.

Hope this helps

WK

elmo218

Cicerone,

Thank you so much for your in depth descriptions of our many options. I just took a quick look at my posts, but will be back soon to enter some budget information. Also possibly leaving form the Zurich Aiport.............. I'll Be back

elmo218

We have finally finalized our Europe trip, which will have us in the Switzerland area in the middle of March for 4 days. We are looking to ski in the Zermatt area for one day. However, when I check for any availability for 3 days two nights, I can not find anything. We definitely started to late in checking for hotels in the Zermatt area.

We are looking for either two rooms for 6 persons or an apartment that will sleep 6. If anyone has any other recommended resources for non traditional accomodations, it would be appreciated, as we need to make reservation quickly. If not, maybe suggesting a nearby town that is not too far away from sking.

Thank you in advance.