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Delta First Class seats- how far in advance should I book?

Delta First Class seats- how far in advance should I book?

Old Jul 28th, 2015, 07:52 AM
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Delta First Class seats- how far in advance should I book?

Hoping to use my Delta Skymiles to upgrade main cabin seats to first class/lay flat seats for myself, DH and 2 kids on overnight flight to Milan from either Atlanta or JFK. Trip is not until early July 2016. I've always heard not to book too early, as rates go down between 6-8 weeks before departure. However, I'm pretty sure all the first class seats would be gone if I wait that long. I would like to book around October, but is that even too late to snag a first class upgrade with miles? Do I need to reserve in August? Or can I wait until October? The Delta customer service line is no help, nor is the web site. Any recommendations!
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:01 AM
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Do the experiment…..book as if you were buying right now and see if any seats are available with miles. That should answer your question.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:07 AM
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Seats are open for purchase. If I'm using miles is that the same availability?
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:09 AM
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My understanding is that, as with other award seats, there may be a limited # eligible for upgrade. To upgrade with miles you need to buy a certain class of economy ticket. Perhaps call the customer service line again and hope for a more helpful agent.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:15 AM
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Judy is right and I forgot that part….I think you have to pay a LOT more for your tkt to be able to upgrade using miles….I was referring to "pretending" that you are buying tkts w/miles only and seeing if seats are available…And yes, if seats are available for purchase, then redeeming miles should be the same availability.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:32 AM
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Ugh. So I just called again and the Delta agent is now telling me that after June 1st, the miles requirement for a first class upgrade will increase from 25,000 one way to 80,000 one way! I only have 100,000 and knew about the higher rate class, but knew nothing about this miles increase! I don't think I can upgrade now. Delta is constantly pulling the rug out from under me!
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:40 AM
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And yes, if seats are available for purchase, then redeeming miles should be the same availability.

Not hardly. Airlines use very sophisticated computer algorithms to determine when and how many seats to release into award/upgrade inventory. The aim of the system is to maximize revenue to the airline (hence its name, "revenue management" or RM) and a cash customer paying thousands for a business class seat is far more appealing than someone using miles for the same seat, either as a straight award or for an upgrade. It's only when their forecasts and demonic spells have convinced the computers (and their Hogwarts masters) that not all seats will sell for big bucks that a few will be released for awards or upgrades.

Delta continues to cheapen its frequent flyer program (the widely used term for which is "Skypesos") first by limiting the underlying fare classes that can be used for upgrades at all (not just any economy fare, but only the most expensive ones) then by raising the number of miles needed for an award or upgrade, and now by going to "dynamic pricing" for awards (and presumably upgrades). That means the same computers will be looking at how flights are doing on straight sales, and raising or lowering the mileage "price" for awards/upgrades in "real time," i.e. an upgrade that might cost 25,000 miles and a $300 co-pay on one day might cost 30,000 miles and $400 the next, depending on how the flight is selling.

Sorry to sound like a poop, but that's Delta's game. Oh, and the chances of getting four upgrades on the same flights? Bupkis.

For July 2016 you should wait several months before booking; airlines frequently don't release the cheapest seats right at the get-go of the booking window. They want to have a better handle on their internal costs (fuel etc.) and don't want to lock themselves into an unprofitable sale, so they hedge their risk with higher initial fares. Once their cost picture becomes clearer, there's a better chance of cheaper seats being made available.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:45 AM
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Thanks Gardyloo. Delta giving me a bad taste in my mouth. So disappointed.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:52 AM
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To upgrade from main cabin to business on Delta (flat seats) using miles, two things have to happen:

- Your main cabin fare has to be one of the following booking classes: Y, B, M, S, H, Q, or K. The lowest fares, often U class, are not upgradeable.

- Business class seats in R or O class must be available, and these are usually hard to come by, especially for 4 people. To my understanding, it is definitely not the case that "if seats are available for purchase, then redeeming miles should be the same availability."
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 09:04 AM
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Yes I feel totally deceived by the agents. I feel even more foolish because I opened up a Delta Skymiles gold card for the 50,000 mile bonus (I already had 50,000) so that I would have the 100,000 total to upgrade my family to first class lay flat seats for the overnight flight. I spoke to 3 different agents before I opened the card to confirm the 25,000 and they all confirmed it. They told me about the higher fare class but no one said the miles would increase after June 1. Only after I have opened the new credit card account did they tell me. Ugh.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 09:05 AM
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And all 3 agents told me that as long as the seats were open and not booked, I could upgrade.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 09:41 AM
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First/Business does sell out faster than it used to. We had to book our flights earlier than I wanted to and we had to get seats one behind the other as the center 2 rows were sold out.

They have definitely made more seats non-upgradable these days.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 10:40 AM
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You might be able to get better info / strategy on Flyertalk. The knowledge there is amazing (but I think two posters here gave good info - maybe they post on Flyertalk as well)I have also been given misleading info by Delta phone reps. - I was thinking about writing Delta but just too lazy and I didn't have names. But I know now and again, Flyertalk is your friend. Did you pay money for the credit card - I'd try calling them and complaining, cancelling the card if possible - they should get feedback on how Delta is mis-representing / handling offers - but I'm probably just being naïve - they probably don't really give a sh*t once they have your money.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 11:19 AM
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Business class seat pricing follow a different pricing pattern from economy class seats where popular belief such as "rates go down between 6-8 weeks before departure" come from.

Unless someone else is buying my "Y" or similar tickets, I don't go this route. The "Y" type of tickets cost not too much less than business class seats and gives me only a possibility to upgrade using rules and exceptions not always clear to me.

If you find Delta business upgrade to be a dead end, your options for better seat, but short of business class seat are Premium Economy seats. Domestic carriers don't offer these. UA and Delta only give you slight more leg room for 15-20% more. On Air France or Lufthansa, you actually get different seat - something like what business class seats looked like before lay-flat type came along for about 2x the economy.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 01:28 PM
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Pretty much every summer there are sales on business class tickets between the US and Europe. I know it's counter-intuitive, but it happens because the actual business use of those cabins falls during the summer, leaving excess capacity. It's often the case that the price of business class seats is not that much more than economy ones, given that the high summer is when economy seats are usually at their most expensive.

Here's an example, Charlotte to Madrid for $2200 round trip - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...00-ai-r-t.html

Or Seattle to London, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...07-z-fare.html

Or Houston to Stockholm, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...sk-1999-a.html

That particular Flyertalk board, Premium Fare Deals, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals-740/ - is well worth monitoring. FTers hardly ever miss one.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 03:46 PM
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I've read enough here and on other forums to realize that banking on upgrades is out of my budget and status, but I did just get a score of sorts on American.

50K one way, PHL > FCO business, and 20K return in economy. Money cost was $64.4O. Next April, return early May.

This may not help you, but if nothing else I would talk to the credit card company, and ask to cancel the card and get a refund. Was there a fee? Those deals often waive the fee in the first year, or at least the ones I read, do.
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Old Jul 28th, 2015, 08:45 PM
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Thanks for all the helpful info., and for not ridiculing me for being so naive!!

There was not a fee for the credit card- it's waived the first year. But still it was a hassle and I feel deceived.

I just fired off a lengthy email to Ed Bastian at Delta. It will probably fall on deaf ears, but at least I've said my peace.

Maybe I'll try Air France or Lufthansa- do they even fly out of Ohio???
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Old Jul 29th, 2015, 05:06 AM
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>>>>Maybe I'll try Air France or Lufthansa- do they even fly out of Ohio???
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Old Jul 29th, 2015, 06:15 AM
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Maybe I'll try Air France or Lufthansa- do they even fly out of Ohio???

To the best of my knowledge, there's a total of ONE nonstop flight from Ohio (and not even Ohio technically) to Europe, Delta's flight from Cincinnati to Paris. All other routes/carriers require a connection someplace else, be it Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Washington DC, etc.
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Old Jul 29th, 2015, 08:35 AM
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YOu can't even get Air France flights if you have Delta points, I know because I've tried. They won't even let you book seats. Now there are a few, but only in real off periods (maybe January). It didn't used to be that way, that's one reason why I got the Delta Amex Skymiles card, becuase I like flying Air France nonstop from my home city. Beginning a couple years ago or more, it has become impossible, so I dropped the card and just use a regular Amex that costs me nothing but for which I get cashback of 1-3 pct on everything. Works better.

YOu can usually book Delta seats, though, I just don't want them as for me, I'm not at a Delta hub so it always involves connections. I did find out last year, though, that they work pretty well for Mexico. Not as many points, and lots of flights (they partner with Aeromexico). IN fact, they have a nonstop from Atlanta to Guanajuato, which I took with only about 30K points last year.

I can't imagine who would have said that if seats are available, you can get them with points. All you have to do is go into Delta and check some routes, $$$ versus miles and see that isn't true.
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