arewethereyet

I'm wondering if I understand the dress code for churches correctly. I'm thinking that bare shoulders means that one is wearing a halter top, a tank top, or similar piece of clothing. I am bringing a few sleeveless blouses - is this appropriate dress or is it considered the same thing?

azure0327

I was in Italy four years ago in July and wore sleeveless tops which are also considered inappropriate for churches. Luckily, all the guidebooks I had read prepared me for that so I always carried a lighweight cardigan in my handbag. It's a measure of respect and a small price to pay for being able to see some of the most beautiful churches in the world.

Melissa5

You will not be allowed into churches like St. Peter's, where someone is actually standing at the door enforcing the dress code, with sleeveless blouses. As someone mentioned, if you really are attached to your sleeveless blouses, bring a cover-up to wear into the church. It's a lot easier just to wear short sleeves though! I brought tops made with very light-weight breathable fabrics which had short sleeves. They were cool enough and got me into the churches.

janis

I am curious why you'd think a sleeveless blouse would be OK for churches where shoulders must be covered?

If a top doesn't have sleeves the shoulders are not covered . . . .

jenviolin

I think arewethereyet wants to know if the dress code differentiates between 'bare shoulders' and 'sleeveless'. In my experience, NO. Take "bare upper arms" and "bare above the knee" as your guidelines for what is (mostly) prohibited. Don't worry - just carry a longish scarf with you and drape it over your shoulders. Problem solved, unless you're wearing shorts or a short skirt, in which case you may need 2 scarves! You certainly won't be the first person, male or female, to enter a church dressed mostly in scarves! (I even once saw a guy wearing what was clearly a checkered tablecloth knotted around his neck. He looked like Picnic Superman.)

Gretchen

And when we went to the Vatican, our teen son was wearing shorts. Across the street there was a store that sold paper trousers.
And yes, sleeveless is a no no--take the scarf.

AnthonyGA

If the Vatican required you to take your clothing off to enter, would you do that as well? What if it required that everyone wear a beanie hat with a propeller?

SuzieC

" What if it required that everyone wear a beanie hat with a propeller?"

In a tiny south Pacific islnd there is a proud old traditional faith. In that faith, a propeller hat IS the tradition. The basilica has startling and wonderful architecture and its alter piece is a particularly fine Gauguin...
a must see. So YES, just because I might feel its ludicrous on would go the hat...who am I to judge?

One should respect others' traditions ... isn't that part of the educational/interesting/travel experience?

Simply cover up and go with the flow.

Christina

It isn't just bare shoulders, that's the problem. The dress code is that women must cover both bare shoulders and upper arms. These are two different body parts to me, upper arms are not shoulders, and I have sleeveless blouses where my shoulders are not uncovered as the neckline is fairly high; I even have sleeveless turtlenecks. However, I was raised Catholic, and they have this thing about upper arms being sexually provocative (which is not true on many people, alas), at least on women. I wonder if they apply that rule to men--probably not, which is sexist. No men would wear sleeveless things back when I was going to their schools, although nowadays they do. When I went to Catholic school, girls were forbidden to wear pullover sweaters, regardless of how loose they were. It made no sense. The thing that was odd about all of these rules is that it introduced ideas and thoughts about things that I didn't even understand as a girl (yes, I know I was naive but that was many years ago when kids weren't as exposed to sexual things in the media and elsewhere).

Patrick

I still laugh when I remember being in St. Marks square and seeing there was NO line to go into the Basilica. We hadn't planned to do it that day and we were already wearing shorts, but it appeared that wasn't an issue. So four of us went up to the guard. The first three of us -- two men and one woman, all middleaged and not exactly eye candy were wearing walking shorts, a fair distance above our knees. No problem, we were waved in. But the fourth in our party, a very shapely and attractive slightly younger gal was wearing Bermudas, right down to the knee. She was refused. The answer? If the guy thinks your bareness is "sexy" then you may be in trouble. If you're not particularly "sexy" he'll probably let you in if you're wearing a bandana and a paif of dixie cups.

rfb

Christina,

I was also raised as a catholic and spent several years studying for a government position with them.
Thankfully, this is a disorder from which you can recover.

They do apply a similar standard to men. Try and enter a church in a tank top, no matter how good you look (and happily no matter how bad you look too), and you'll be turned away. And yes, their policies are sexist but what else can you expect from an organization run by purportedly celebate old men for 2000 years.

As to disrobing or wearing beanies, I'll do whatever it takes to get inside; one good thing the catholic church has done over the years is encourage the production of some of the greatest artworks we have ever produced.

Arewethereyet,
The basic rule is women cannot be too covered up.

Zeus

When I took some of my students to St. Peter's the teenage girls had been warned in advance to bring a shawl or scarf to "cover-up". The surprise came when the boys were denied entarnce because of their shorts. We stepped-off to the side and had them slide their pants down a couple inches. They were allowed in where they promptly readjusted.

hdm

I knew about the no-bare-shoulders rule but I'm pretty sure I would have not given a thought to wearing a sleeveless blouse (with skirt, pants or capris) to some churches and we had no problem getting in. Now Patrick's got me all depressed thinking that it was because I'm not sexy!

And AnthonyGA, I hope I'm missing your joke here. If the Vatican required me to wear a beanie hat with a propeller and I wanted to go to the Vatican, then I would make sure I was appropriately beanie hat attired. Their house, their rules. Why would your rights supercede their rights? Do you generally go into private homes and public places where they request no smoking and light up?

Arewethereyet, you're wise to ask especially since some sleeveless blouses have 'cut-in' armholes. To avoid being disappointed I don't think you should take any chances. Take a few light cotton, loose-ish, short sleeve blouses. You'll have no problem getting in to any church you want and you'll still be comfortable.

nytraveler

AnthonyGA -

Are you the same one who was offended that he would be required to wear a shirt to a 4* restaurant? (I never understood if he meant he wanted to wear a tank top - or just to go bare chested like Tarzan.)

It's very simple - their church - their rules - if you don;t like them - just add it to the list of all the other places you won;t be allowed to go.

bellastar

AnthonyGA-Do you mean now I might have to pack that ridiculous beanie propellar hat thing that I'm required to wear at my day job? Darn, I thought I could leave it home this time.

It all seems so simple to me. Just take a scarf, and don't give it a second thought!

Reading this thread gives me a ray of hope, though, because once I was asked pointedly by my hired guide to cover up walking into a church, and at the time, I was wearing a pullover boat necked sweater and a cardigan over that! But who knows, could be that I looked too sexy! It adds a new dimension to my memory!

cigalechanta

"Define "Bare" shoulders."
Shoulders uncovered.
A light weight gauzy cotton or silk shawl that easily folds up into my handbag does it for me when we enter a church.

cigalechanta

Another option is one of those trendy sweaters that tie in the front. I bought one in a silk knit because it doesn't wrinkle.

AnthonyGA

I'm not saying that you don't have to follow the rules when entering private property (are churches private property in Italy?), I'm just asking how far you'll bend over for the privilege. If, say, they didn't like the color of your skin, or your nationality, would that disturb you then? Where do you draw the line?

In France, at least, churches that predate the separate of church and state are public property—they do <i>not</i> belong to the Catholic church, despite the illusions the church seems to have along these lines. Perhaps that is why they don't generally say anything about attire. There are signs at some churches concerning attire, but there appears to be no enforcement. If there were, I'd not be happy at all, since I don't approve of my tax dollars being used to support a religion.

And I rather wonder what happens when a devout male Jew wearing a yarmulke wants to enter a Catholic church that requires men to remove their hats. And I'm confused as to how God can simultaneously require men to wear hats and yet also require men to remove them.

kenderina

Here in Spain most churches are not public property and I suppose it works the same way in Italy. So they have the right to tell you how to dress inside its property
About the hats question..it's unpolite to wear them at the church the same way it is not polite to wear them at a restaurant. I suppose the Jews hats are not seen as hats..but as a faith question and they don't get bothered.

Carmen

God doesn't require it; people do.