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December Honeymoon in Andalucia

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Old Oct 5th, 2011, 02:40 PM
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December Honeymoon in Andalucia

Dear community

We´re going on our Honeymoon to Andalucía, at the south of Spain, from Dec 13th up until Christmas.

We begin our trip in Lisbon (cheapest inbound flights to the region), where we would like to maybe spend a day to quickly see the sights, and then cross over to Sevilla. The "must" places would be Sevilla, Cordoba, Granada and Ronda, in the first place, and then summing up some other destinations, maybe Marbella, Malaga, Jaen or even Cadiz.

We would be doing everything by car, probably from Lisbon. The initial idea of the trip is to do 2 nights/3 days in Sevilla, then 2 nights/1 day in Cordoba, 2 nights/1 day in Granada, 1 night/1 day in Ronda and then try to sort out the rest with the rest of the important cities.

The questions that I have are:

1) Are the nights/days for these top cities enough?
2) From the second options, what would you recommend the most? I didn´t hear much about Marbella, but since it´s in the region I considered it into the pool of possible destinations. Any other destination you might add?
3) Christmas: what would be a good city to be in on the 24th? I´ve heard that the Christmas lights in Malaga are beautiful, but since our return flight is from Lisbon, we wouldn´t want to drive all that distance on the 25th.
4) I´ve heard a thousand times that people sometimes cross to Morocco (Tanger) for a day or a day and a half. Is it worth it?

Thanks in advance for all your feedback

All the best

Gaston.-
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 12:05 AM
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I can see you are driving..cars in cities are a waste of money and a bit of a pain things like car parking etc.
In Spain most things close down from midday on the 24th Dec until the morning of the 26th So plan accordingly.
When planning please bear in mind that one nighters do not allow you to see anything of your location.
If you do hire a car and use it in Portugal. then do some research on the forums about how to pay the electronic tolls in Portugal.
I hope this kicks of some planning ideas
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 12:30 AM
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I don't understand the need to visit Ronda, but do visit Malaga staying in the old town.
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 03:37 AM
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This plan needs some work still. The pace is too hectic, more so if this is a honeymoon. December are short daylights and I don't see much allowance for in-transit between cities and unavoidable delays. I would strongly suggest that since you have two weeks, pick a max of three (3) home bases. Spend at least 3 days in Lisbon, train on to Seville, stay in Seville at least 4 days (including a day trip to Cordova), rent a car upon EXITING Seville to explore the White Towns and stay the rest of the time either in Marbella or Malaga-- explore Granada as a daytrip from there. I also recommend looking into an apartment for your last week stay(vrbo.com or holiday-rentals.com).
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 03:40 AM
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RE: Morocco as a day trip from Spain means Tangier. I have mixed feelings. Tangier is a crappy town not the best first impression of Morocco. That said, it is a different culture and as such could be an enlightening experience in many ways. If you HAVE to do it, DO IT AS PART OF A GROUP DO NOT GO BY YOURSELVES.
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 07:35 AM
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Hi all

Thanks a lot for your input. We´re on the planning stages, so we haven´t got anything fixed yet, except for the flights (into LIS 13/12 late evening, out of LIS 25/12 late evening).

@ribeirasacra I see your point. However I feel that moving with a car would be much cheaper than by train. Although it´s true that inside the cities it would be a pain. Are there in general parking facilities within the cities´ limits? So as to avoid the need of driving the car downtown.

@bilboburgler Ronda was recommended by quite a few people we know, that´s why we included it. Do you feel it´s not worth a visit?

@viajero2 Doing home bases makes sense, and will be more relaxed I believe. However, isn´t it too stressful to do day trips to Cordoba and Granada? I´ve heard that these cities are worth spending some time.
Marbella or Malaga? What would be best to base ourselves in?
Also, I´ve searched the Renfe and websites and couldn´t find any train direct services from Lisbon to Sevilla =/

Also, where can I check for bus fares. Both for LIS-SVQ and for the trips within Andalucia.

Thanks a lot

Cheers

Gaston.-
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 08:38 AM
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Renting a car is expensive, crossing borders and tolls are an extra hassle. ALSA is the bus service, RENFE is the train, they have websites. Seville deserves 3 nights at least. Ronda is picturesque but very quiet and not much going on compared to Sevilla, Granada, or Malaga. It might be romantic to spend a night there but I prefer to stop there on my way from Seville to Malaga. Marbella is not for me, the old town is nice though. I do like Malaga (old part of town). Granada deserves two nights but one will suffice, you must see the alhambra. I'd like to be in Malaga or Seville during Christmas. Tangier is awful. Figure 20 euros a night to park a car in Seville and Granada, maybe a bit less in Malaga. This trip really would be easier if you flew in and out of Madrid, skip Lisbon and focus on Andalucia.
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 08:41 AM
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Stick with just your "musts" - that is absolutely enough for your available time frame. Twelve nights? Correct? If it's only 11, cut a night from Cordoba.

1 night Lisbon
4 nights Seville
2 nights Cordoba
2 nights Ronda
2 nights Granada
1 night Lisbon

I wouldn't worry about the car if it truly saves money. Do price out two tickets (and travel time) to get you through your trip (including to/from the various train stations). don't assume - do the homework. You may still want a car from leaving Cordoba and dropping off in Granada as Ronda is mush easier to reach by car.

As to Marbella, Malaga, Jaen, and Cadiz - I don't see the extra time for any of them, let alone 2, 3 or 4!
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Old Oct 6th, 2011, 11:31 PM
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<i>Are there in general parking facilities within the cities´ limits?</i>
There are a huge number of car parks. There is hardly any parking on the street available. It is the cost and the difficulty of navigating around cities that causes the tourist problems.
I personally cannot understand your point when you say that hiring a car is cheaper than a train. The daily rental will cost far more than one ticket on a train or bus. Unless you hire from elcheapo car rental. Then you have other risks.
As said above there are tolls, fuel, parking and days on non use you have to add to see if it makes good sense to hire a car. Dont forget if you require an automatic the cost are even higher per day.
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Old Oct 7th, 2011, 01:32 AM
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Great public transport in the area, no need for a car unless you plan to go exploring the countryside and the mountain regions. The high speed AVE/AVANT train take you from Sevilla to Córdoba in some 50 mins. Less than half the price if you book in advance on renfe.com (I think it's about 16€).

You could make fabulous Málaga city on the coast your base for day-trips to both Ronda and Granada. Direct buses all the time. Málaga is 50 mins from Córdoba with the high speed train (some 20€).

About Málaga: http://www.andalucia.com/cities/malaga/
"Málaga: Authentic charm of an overlooked treasure": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ci...-treasure.html

Statistics for Málaga weather from the middle of December until Christmas based on past 15 years: Daily highs 59-66°F, four hours sun pr. day and two days with rainfall pr. week.

Some fresh Córdoba impressions:

The "other" Córdoba around Plaza de las Tendillas, the Plaza Mayor-like Plaza de la Corredera, the Roman ruins etc can be highly recommended. All very close to the main tourist attractions but a totally different and more local atmosphere.

Several fine bodegas/tabernas in this area. Here you'll find great local places on every corner. Just had some excellent meals in a couple of them. Taberna Salinas comes recommended in the Michelin guide, and we were perfectly happy after two raciones, a bottle of wine and a couple of brandys for some 35€. http://www.tabernasalinas.com/

Bar Santos in Calle Magistral González Francés, 3 along the eastern side of the Mezquita is a laid-back and small respite in this heavily touristy area. Wonderful Jamón Ibérico.

Felt immediately at home in Plaza de las Tendillas. The thousands of people gathering here for the midnight eating of the grapes on New Years eve is traditionally directly televised on national tv. The clock on Plaza de las Tendillas has got no bells. Since 1961 the hours has been chimed in by recorded flamenco chords from the guitarist Juanito Serrano. Great atmospehere and good spirit well into the small hours, at least in the week-ends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fexMbX4EsRE&NR=1

We lived in modern Hotel Córdoba Centro, just excellent, some 300 meters north of the Mezquita, next door to the main Tendillas Plaza. Some 60€ for a double. http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/cord...?rid=702348143
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Old Oct 10th, 2011, 01:10 AM
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Hi guys

Thank you all for your input.

Lisbon is definitely out of the plan now. We would be trying to concentrate too much into a limited span of time, so we´re pretty convinced about leaving it out.

I did the homework, and the calculations give me pretty much the same total cost for both options (car vs train). I just wanted to ask, do you know how much the tolls in Spain and Portugal cost?

Also, we´d be following the "hub" plan. Sevilla, Cordoba and Malaga sound like the best options. Do you agree?
Is it worth sleeping in Granada? Or can it easily be done from Cordoba?
Also, could you help me draft our a daily plan? I have some ideas but maybe what I have in mind is not fully convenient:

14/12 - ETA Sevilla 14:00. Hotel check-in and maybe some quick sightseeing and then dinner.
15/12 - Sevilla. Full sightseeing on the city.
16/12 - Sevilla. Still city sightseeing or maybe a day trip?
17/12 - Sevilla. Still city sightseeing or maybe a day trip? Or maybe already leaving for next hub?
18/12 - Cordoba. Sevilla-Cordoba in the morning. Afternoon and evening for city sightseeing.
19/12 - Cordoba. City sightseeing in the morning (and maybe some trip in the afternoon?).
20/12 - Cordoba. Day trip to Granada and the Alhambra. Is it too much for a day trip maybe?
21/12 - Malaga. Cordoba-Malaga in the morning and then some city sightseeing in the afternoon/evening.
22/12 - Malaga. City sightseeing (and maybe some trip on the afternoon?).
23/12 - Malaga. Day trip (Marbella maybe?)
24/12 - Malaga. Day trip (Ronda maybe?). Christmas´ eve.
25/12 - Malaga-Lisbon. Could be too long for being the last day and having to catch the flight at 18 hs, isn´t it? I estimate like 500/600 km.

Also, what could be other options for day trips from Sevilla, Cordoba and Malaga? The white villages maybe? Cadiz from Sevilla?

Thanks for all your help

Kind regards

Gaston.-
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Old Oct 10th, 2011, 04:33 AM
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Day trips suggestions:


From Sevilla:

More than 3000 years old Cádiz by the sea: http://www.andalucia.com/cities/cadiz.htm

Jeréz de la Frontera; horses, flamenco and the famous wines:
http://www.andalucia.com/cities/jerez.htm

Small Carmona just outside Sevilla with an important Roman heritage and a fabulous Moorish inspired Parador: http://www.andalucia.com/province/se...rmona/home.htm
http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/para....en.html?dva=0


From Málaga:

Of course Ronda:
http://www.andalucia.com/ronda/home.htm

Antequera, the so called heart of Andalucía, just north of Málaga. Dolmens (ancient burial chambers, some 5000 years old), Roman baths, a Moorish Castle, Gothic churches, Renaissance fountains and baroque bell towers. Antequera was the first of the Granada emirate towns to fall to the Christians in 1410.
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/antequera.html

On a fine day, drive up to spectacular Torcal just outside Antequera for the most magnificent views:
http://www.andalucia.com/antequera/torcal/home.htm

Perhaps visit the famous Nerja caves some 35 miles East of Málaga? Take the Virtual Tour and you're sold: http://www.cuevadenerja.es/index.php?lenguaje=en

Have lunch before or after visiting the caves at extremely popular La Marina in Nerja. As good as you get a typical fish and seafood freiduría in all of Andalucía. Have had some major splurges here: http://www.guideofnerja.com/pages/gu.../marina_en.htm


Córdoba:
The ruins of the Moorish palace town Madinat al-Zahra. Build to picture paradise on earth in the 10th century and destroyed in a civil war only a few decades later: http://www.andalucia.com/magazine/en...d4/madinat.htm
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Old Oct 10th, 2011, 04:36 AM
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Since you are flying in and out of Lisbon you really should spend at least a day. And I think it would be a good thing for the last day for two reasons. One, it's always wise to be in the town you are flying out of a day early - eliminates the worries about some transportation problem (either driving or public trans) causing you to miss your fight. Second, since it will be Christmas everything will be closed but the beauty of Lisbon is the architecture, etc and that you can tour even if museums and stores, etc are closed.

I think doing Granada as a day trip from Cordoba is a mistake. Too far. Also, while I did really like both those cities, most people feel Granada deserves more time than Cordoba.

Marbella may be the 'nicest' of the towns on the coast in that region but it still just a big beach resort with a lot of high rise condos. Not in the same league as the rest of your destinations.

I liked Malaga but you might be overdoing it compared to your other destinations.

If you are renting a car I would do this:
14th - drive to Seville, half day for sightseeing
15th - Seville
16th - Seville
17th - drive to Cordoba, most of day for sightseeing
18th - morning in Cordoba, drive to Granada
19th - Granada
20th - Granada
21st - drive to Ronda, stop in Antequera on the way
22nd - Ronda
23rd - day trip TO Malaga by bus, sleep in Ronda
24th - drive to Lisbon
25th - Lisbon

Ronda is a more relaxing place than Malaga, easier to drive in, park, etc. Just as easy to do a day trip to Malaga as the other way around and this way you are closer to Seville for the drive there.

If you are not renting a car and doing trains, buses I would suggest this:
14th-17th Seville with one day trip to Cordoba (less than an hour by train)
18-20th Granada
21st-23rd Malaga with one day trip to Ronda and one to Nerja
24th - back to Lisbon

Here are my photos of the places you are going:
http://www.pbase.com/annforcier/sevilla_cordoba_granada
http://www.pbase.com/annforcier/spai...onda_gibraltar
http://www.pbase.com/annforcier/lisbon_2006
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Old Oct 10th, 2011, 04:49 AM
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Your latest plan is OK but Isabels suggested revision is better.
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Old Oct 20th, 2011, 04:16 AM
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Hi folks

Thank you all for your kind help, support and suggestions.

Isabel I liked your plan a lot, and I agree that having Christmas in Lisbon seems like the best idea, and also a more relaxing one in terms of "Logistics" hehe.
We are indeed doing it by car, so we´ll be sticking to the first plan you posted.

Do you guys have any hotel suggestions? Ideally I wouldn´t go to cheap hotels, but also since we´ll be sightseeing a lot there´s no sense in having a super fancy hotel, or full of facilities that we would not be using.

Thanks a million

Kind regards

Gaston.-
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Old Oct 20th, 2011, 04:17 AM
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Isabel, BTW, great pictures! =)
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Old Oct 20th, 2011, 05:07 AM
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I recommend modern Hotel Córdoba Centro, just excellent, some 300 meters north of the Mezquita, next door to the main Tendillas Plaza. Some 60€ for a double. http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/cord...?rid=702348143

This "other" Córdoba around Plaza las Tendillas, the Plaza Mayor-like Plaza de la Corredera, the Roman ruins etc has got a totally different and more local atmosphere, excellent tabernas and cafés/bars on every corner, yet only a three minutes walk to the Mezquita etc.

In Lisboa, I can recommend great value Pensão Residencial Portuense, ideal location close to the central Rossio square.
http://www.booking.com/hotel/pt/pens...tuense.en.html

Just across the street from wonderful 17th century Casa do Alentejo. About the street and the cultural center/restaurant: http://www.golisbon.com/sight-seeing/santo-antao.html

Photos from Casa do Alentejo: http://www.google.no/search?q=Casa+d...w=1067&bih=661
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Old Oct 20th, 2011, 11:27 AM
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A few suggestions:

In Seville: www.hotelalminar.com

In Granada: www.hotelcasamorisca.com

In Ronda: www.parador.es/es/parador-de-ronda
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