Hi sidny,

We've walked past these "maisons" a few times but never been in. Both Angers and Saumur would be good venues for the sort of walk you describe, and of course if you're on the train, you don't need to worry about the drink -driving laws.

did you see that the website also had a list of local producers some of whom do tours? also, on the Discover the Loire button, there was a drop-down menu for vineyards that you can visit:

http://www.vinsvaldeloire.fr/en_EN/cave_touristiques/cave_accueil.aspx

another place you might consider would be Reims - several of the champagne houses do guided tours with tastings, I believe.

How about Reims - less than an hour by train from Paris and home to some of the world's ,most prestigeous Champagne Caves and Houses - places where they really produce wines - the Maisons you talk about I think are generally places where wines produced elsewhere in the area are sampled and showcases but not produced on the premises - not sure about that but a quick look over seems like that - some promotional place for local wines.

Reims offers about a dozen separate ornate Champagne Houses and caves - like thoseof Mumm's Tatinger, etc - right inside the city - easy to reach by train and Reims also has a world-class cathedral, where kings and queens of France were once crowned.

Loire wines also are not nearly the most celebrated in France - at least not the ones in the towns where the Maisons are.

Authentica Tours in Burgundy ( http://www.visitdijon.com/en/dijon_authentica_tours.htm ) have received some nice reviews here on Fodors and on TripAdvisor. They advertise several half-day tours and can meet you at the Dijon Ville railway station, about 1h35 from Paris Gare de Lyon.

I would second PalenQ's suggestion of Reims, with the cathedral (including one stained glass window dedicated to the manufacture of champagne) also highly recommended. If your time is tight, you should probably book tours and tastings in advance. I think Ruinart only does them by appointment (but they offer a great tour), and Taittinger only has a few times. Veuve
Cliquot probably has the most frequent tours; you may not need a reservation there.

I'm a red wine fan myself, so am interested in the answers, as I thought the area round Paris was more into whites. However, I'm still trying to understand why a post that says quite clearly: "I'm not particularly interested in champagne tasting, more red wines" draws two posts recommending champagne....

No kidding, adrienne. I would choose Dijon myself, but if you can more easily get to Saumur or Chinon in the Loire, those would be good venues for red wine tastings. I don't know much about train connections there, though, as I've always had a car.

However, I'm still trying to understand why a post that says quite clearly: "I'm not particularly interested in champagne tasting, more red wines" draws two posts recommending champagne....>>

simply because I didn't spot that bit, thursdays.

but there are of course some very good, if not great, Loire red wines. We like them a lot, though they are not that easy to get hold of.

You weren't one of the ones that missed it, ann. I thought your suggestions for Loire venues were great. Angers and Saumur are both in red wine territory in the Loire.

lol, St. Cirq, but I DID miss it.

just lucky, i guess.

It wasn't you I noticed ann....

And I agree about Dijon, really enjoyed staying there, despite bad weather. Interested to hear about the Loire reds.

Thanks for the suggestions thus far. The reason I mentioned the Maisons in the Loire towns is that they seemed easy to just stop into when we arrive (though I noted their closing times on the website for lunch). I'm not sure we want to be on a timetable and having to make it to Dijon in time for a scheduled tour, though I appreciate the suggestion and will investigate it further--Authentica does seem to get excellent reviews. I have to admit, I like the idea of Dijon and/or Beaune as they're a bit further away from Paris. I need to check train schedules to Beaune to see if that's even an option.

Would love more feedback if anyone has additional ideas!

Well I can certainly be accused of inattention to detail, maybe because I like champagne so much that I glossed over the part of the original post ruling out champagne. Sorry about that. I think you have other options, Sidny, that will serve you well

sidney - Angers in particular is worth going to see, just for the Chateau with its wonderful Apocalypse tapestry in a specially constructed basement:

http://editions.monuments-nationaux.fr/en/le-catalogue/bdd/livre/14

the gardens are also lovely. My recollection is that the maison des vins is in the corner of the square where the chateau is to be found, and the website seems to agree with me:

http://www.vinsvaldeloire.fr/en_EN/vins_trouver/maisons_vins.aspx

My problem with Dijon or Beaune would be is that it takes quite a long time to get there and back for the sake of a good lunch and wine tasting; IMHO they are better as overnight destinations.

PS - i just went to the SNCF website and checked train times. The ones to Angers are about 1hr 35 mins and they go regularly from Paris Montparnasse. There are TGV trains to Dijon that apparently take about the same time but are pretty costly; there are cheaper ones that take a LOT longer.

http://www.voyages-sncf.com/billet-train/horaires

I've been to both Angers and Dijon, the former as a day trip, and either would be fine for this trip. There is a tourist office fairly near the Dijon train station that has lots of these day wine tours. I think you can't go direct to Beaune, you have to go through Dijon.

There are plenty of cheap TGV PREM fares to Dijon, it depends on how far ahead you buy, and fares are always cheaper at some times of day than others (even when both are TGVs). You can easily get a ticket 1-way for about 25 euro that is a PREM at some times, and even more expensive tickets can be had for only about 32 euro. It's basically the same price to Angers or Dijon, they both have PREMS for around 25 euro and Loisir fare s for around 30-35, and they both take about the same time.

So train fare doesn't make any difference in the choice, nor the time, if anything Dijon is about 5-10 minutes quicker. Now Beaune is another story because you have to go to Dijon and usually transfer, so it does take a lot longer and costs more.

OK, train experts. I'm having a helluva time trying to find fares. I can find through RailEurope (UK version, I believe), fares between Paris-Angers and Paris-Dijon...both appear to be about $120-$130 USD. I wasn't expecting the price to be so high, my only train travel experience was with a Eurail pass. Does this seem like a reasonable price (keep in mind, no chance of PREM fares as I'm looking for tix for next week, March 2nd)?

I also tried the SNCF website with appropriate country choice to avoid redirection to SNCF and in many cases I'm told there are no tix available for the trains...do these routes really sell out or did I find a bug in the system? Incidentally, same thing happened when I searched a Paris-Reims route (it's closer (and cheaper?), I'll deign to drink champagne!), but no return tix. Is that route so popular that a return train coming back Sat evening is really sold out? Perhaps I'll search Friday and see if I have any better results.

Any tips or experiences to share? Thanks!

<<Angers in particular is worth going to see, just for the Chateau with its wonderful Apocalypse tapestry in a specially constructed basement>>

Not to mention the incredible Jean Lurçat tapestries on the other side of town that are a modern interpretation of the originals.

Sidny, you don't want to go anywhere near the Rail Europe site, and the prices you're seeing are highly inflated. For March 2, SNCF is showing prices of about 70 euros Paris to Angers and about 50 euros Paris to Dijon. The cheap fares have already been snapped up because you're late in booking, but that doesn't mean you need to pay Rail Europe prices.

StCirq: I see total round trip fare of 106 euros Paris-Dijon-Paris on Mar 2, the 50 euros appears to be outward bound only...or am I looking at something incorrectly?

I know RE is more costly, but I resorted to it because I wasn't finding any trains available at all, regardless of price, on SNCF. But that problem seems to be solved now, so possibly a temporary bug. Anyway, based on above which is about the cheapest fare for a reasonable length day trip, it would be $140 in train fare alone to Dijon for the day. If that's what it costs a week out, I might save a day trip for a future vacation that I've planned further in advance.

Thanks for taking the time!

If you are interested in a day trip outside of Paris, but not involving wine, then there are loads of lovely day trips all within an hour or so from Paris by train and your round trip train fares will vary from between roughly 15€ to 30€. If this interests you let me know and I'll post a list of easy day trips you can do from Paris.

I've tasted in both the Angers and Saumur houses. I think I found the Saumur one more fun, they have a load of details on soil types which we chatted through. Because of Saumur and Champigny (and Saumur-Champigny) being just above the town they really do know their stuff.

The reds will be mainly Cabernet Franc which smells and tastes of privet. To my mind these wines are better than the Chinon across the river but others differ with my views.

The principal grape in Chinon wines IS Cabernet Franc.

I love Loire reds, which doesn't mean the OP will, but that'd be my vote if there are still decent fares. Not to mention all the other wonderful things (some mentioned above) in the Loire.

Hi YankyGirl, while the grape may be the same I'm not convinced that the terroir is as good, while the investments in Saumur etc has been significantly more extensive. Still Chacun a son gout.

I'd love to see your list, FMT, if it's something you have prepared already...I don't want you to go to a lot of work. I've seen many of your posts so I suspect this is something you've posted before--I don't want to be lazy in my research at your expense!

The day trip doesn't have to involve wine, I was just looking for a focal point of some type. Thanks!

No problem Sidny. I've posted it several times before but sometimes even in a search it may not pop up. I've got the list in a word doc so it's as easy as cut and paste. I've been to all those places so if you've got any questions feel free to ask. Here is the list:

Here is a brief list that summarizes many of the most popular day trips from Paris (within an hour and a half by train). There are certainly many others you could also do but this list covers most of the biggies:

Provins (an authentic walled medieval town): http://www.provins.net/

Château of Chantilly (wonderful fairytale château, famous art collection): http://www.chateaudechantilly.com/fr/
http://www.chantilly-tourisme.com/

Senlis (small medieval town can be combined with a visit to Chantilly):
http://www.senlis-tourisme.fr/accueil-senlis.php

Reims (champagne tours, great historic cathedral, museums):
http://www.reims-tourisme.com/

Epernay (champagne tours): http://www.ot-epernay.fr/

Fontainebleau (former royal town with famous château):
http://www.musee-chateau-fontainebleau.fr/
http://www.fontainebleau-tourisme.com/
http://www.uk.fontainebleau-tourisme.com/

Versailles (obvious):
http://en.chateauversailles.fr/homepage
http://www.versailles-tourisme.com/en/accueil.html

Château of Vaux-le-Vicomte (the château after which Louis XIV based his garden renovations for Versailles and IMO one of the most elegant château in France):
http://www.vaux-le-vicomte.com/
http://www.vaux-le-vicomte.com/en/visite_infos_pratiques_horaires_plan.php

Rouen (small city, lots to do, wonderful cathedral, medieval old center): http://www.rouentourisme.com/

Giverny (Monet's house and gardens):
http://www.fondation-monet.fr/fr/
http://giverny.org/giverny/giverny.htm
http://www.vernon-visite.org/rgb4/who_we_are.htm

Chartres (the famous cathedral and wonderful old medieval town):
http://www.chartres-tourisme.com/en

http://www.discover-chartres.com/

Malcolm Miller Cathedral Tours:

Daily tours of Chartres Cathedral from Easter until late October are at 12 noon and 2.45 p.m. Not on Sundays, and during the winter occasionally or on request.
E-mail address is millerchartres@aol.com.

Compiègne (château with museums, wonderful old town. Can be combined with a visit to the château of Pierrefonds): http://www.compiegne-tourisme.fr/

Château of Pierrefonds (Magnificent fairytale looking château. Reconstructed in the 19th century but magnificent nonetheless. Can be combined with a visit to Compiègne):
http://www.pierrefonds.monuments-nationaux.fr/
http://pierrefonds-tourisme.net/ot/Bienvenue.html
http://www.compiegne-tourisme.fr/Le-chateau-de-Pierrefonds.html

Troyes (lovely small medieval city):
http://www.tourisme-troyes.com/

Laon (medieval hilltop town with a spectacular cathedral): http://www.tourisme-paysdelaon.com/

Crécy-la-Chapelle (small charming renowned artists village):
http://www.cc-payscrecois.fr/Crecy-la-Chapelle,203.html

Moret-sur-Loing (charming walled medieval village/artists village):
http://www.ville-moret-sur-loing.fr/rubrique.php?id=189
http://www.msl-tourisme.fr/index.php/francais/accueil

Auvers-sur-Oise (Van Gogh and other impressionist art history):
http://www.auvers-sur-oise.com/heading/heading899.html

Malmaison (château of the Empress Josephine and a nice old downtown. On the RER A line and could be combined with a visit to Saint-Germain-en-Laye):
http://www.chateau-malmaison.fr/
http://www.rueil-tourisme.com/

Saint-Germain-en-Laye (former royal town with a wonderful château now home to the national museum of archaeology. On the RER A line and could be combined with a visit to Malmaison):
http://www.ot-saintgermainenlaye.fr/en/
http://www.saintgermainenlaye.fr/en/loisirs/culture/musees/

Barbizon (famous artists village, can be combined with Fontainebleau):
http://www.barbizon-tourisme.fr/

These are the most popular day trips and all are worthwhile but there are many other less popular and equally worthy day trips. I could easily list a couple dozen more but only if what's on this list doesn't interest you. A good guide book for the Île-de-France region should give you more ideas.

You'll need to take a train from Paris to do these day trips. For info on trains in Paris and the nearby suburbs (métro and RER trains) use the website www.ratp.fr. Use the interactive map on this website to plan your trip: http://www.ratp.fr/plan-interactif/carteidf.php?lang=uk. Parts of this website are in French so you can use an English language companion site www.vianavigo.com. For trains that go a bit further out in the Île-de-France region use the website www.transilien.com. For trains that go further beyond the Île-de-France use the website www.voyages-sncf.com (in French only) or www.tgv-europe.com. A great website to learn about trains in France (and Europe) is www.seat61.com if you have any train questions/problems.

Paris and many of the places nearby in Île-de-France are divided into zones, numbered 1 through 5. Paris is in zone 1 and areas outside Paris are in zones 2 through 5. Some of the destinations I mentioned are in zone 5. For these journeys it will be more cost effective to buy a one day Mobilis pass for 15.20€ for zones 1 through 5. This will be cheaper than the point to point tickets round trip. Plus, this pass is good for unlimited travel on all public trains and buses for one day in zones 1-5. Buy it first thing in the morning before your first métro ride and it gets you to your train station, your round trip tickets, any buses you need to use at your destination and any traveling you'll do in Paris when you return. Before you use the ticket make sure to write your name and the date on the ticket. Don't forget to stick your ticket in the composting machine (ticket validation machine) before getting on your train. You can buy these passes from the ticket machines in métro/RER stations. Sometimes these machines have an English language option. If so, look for the one day Mobilis pass option. When you get to the screen that lists your zones to choose from press zone 1 and then press zone 5. You can also buy them at any ticket counter or stores that sell RATP tickets. They are good for 60 days so you can buy it in advance if you want to be prepared. It's not valid until you write your name and date on it and validate the ticket on your first métro/RER trip or at the train station.

Some of the day trips I mentioned will require a bus transfer once you arrive at the train station. If you choose one of these I can help you with bus info.

There are so many choices! May I suggest somewhere else in the Loire Valley? Blois, which has a very interesting castle and old town, wine-tasting possibilities in the town with English-speaking tastings (unless you absolutely want to go to a vineyard). You can also take a coach to the stunning Chambord and Chaumont castles (15 and 20 K from Blois). Blois is 1h22 (direct train) from Paris-Austerlitz.