kelly324

I am planning a week in Paris in March of next year, and very much want to be in an apartment for several reasons, Does anyone know a site where I can go to to stay abreast of the progress of the enforcement of illegal rental laws? The QBQ is how to find a rental apartment that is legal. Thank you for your assistance.

kerouac

Try some of these legal appart-hôtels: http://www.cityzenbooking.com/fr/r-3...FQX3wgodZaUP-Q

kelly324

Thank you kerouac, for the link, but any of those apt/hotels remotely close to where we want to be is way out of our price range. There has to be another way. I am looking on different sites, but I started looking at the 'available' dates. I'm going to assume that if the apartment is constantly available for more than 4 months, that it is an illegal apartment. I wanted to put a deposit down on a place this month, but I am thinking I should wait until summer. It's hard for a couple of blue collar workers to save up enough money to spend time in the beautiful city of Paris. I spend 1.5 days there 2 years ago and want to go back so I can explore !

crefloors

I have the same issue. Looking for next year and I can't figure out if some of the rental companies are legit. I knw there are circumstances where they can rent apartments but not certain of all the ins and outs. It's not helpful.

Whathello

There is no real way to know for sure since there is no legit listing.
Now :
If owner stays in the US and rents in Paris you know it is illegal.
If the owner has several appartments you know it is illegal.
If the owner asks for cash only you know it is illegal.

Ask for an invoice, ask to be assured it is legal and hope for the best. There is a reason why legal appartments like Citadines are more expensive : they are legal they pay taxes, they comply with safety rules etc.

In french we say : you can't have the butter and the money for the butter.

StCirq

Listen to whathello. Everything he says is true, and there really isn't any way other than that to know if an apartment is legal. You have to be proactive and demand assurance, or stay in an apart-hotel and pay the extra.

flpab

I used vacationinparis.com They have an office in NJ where you paid them through credit card not cash. You can also call them which we did since we were last minute and talk to them about this. We had only a few choices since we were last minute so was easier to talk directly with them. I was very happy and yes my apartment was legal.

indyhiker

Out of curiosity flab, how did you ascertain your apartment was legal?

kerouac

How do you know that?

In any case, anybody with major worries can rent an apartment in the near suburbs, which mostly do not have the same housing problems as Paris. And since the suburbs will always be less desirable for holiday rentals than the heart of Paris, these places will almost always be the real residence of people who are just trying to make a little extra money while they are away.

I have a friend living in Brazil who always rents a place in either Meudon or Sèvres when he comes on holiday, because he has to be near his daughter's school, and he has always been quite happy with the accommodations, which are of course also only about half as much as the rates in Paris.

fuzzbucket

First of all, what is your budget and are you being reasonable about how much it really costs to stay in Paris for one week? Most apartments are not all that cheap, and if they are, probably won't offer you the comfort and convenience you might think they will. Perhaps it might be a good idea to save up more money or take out a loan, or you should take kerouac's advice and stay in the suburbs.

There is no official or unofficial list of legal vacation rentals, unfortunately. And there is a lot of misinformation on the internet, and no way for you to know if someone is telling you the truth about his situation. Anyone can give you a receipt and claim he pays taxes, but you have no proof of that.

There has been an explosion of AirBnB and other online sublets, which are definitely prohibited by the tenant's yearly lease. If you rent from someone who's subletting, you run the risk of a last-minute cancellation or even eviction, if the landlord finds out about it.

If an agency accepts US dollars, cash in euros on arrival and/or is based in the US or another country, there's no guarantee that the property owner is paying taxes in France. If the property owner does not live in the unit full-time, he does not have the right to rent it and is breaking the law.

It's important to make the distinction between a legitimate agency vs a legitimate rental:

>> all agencies - no matter where they are located - have the right to list property and are not breaking any laws by doing so. The agency is under no obligation to investigate the property, verify its legality or provide any information to a prospective client.

>> the rental unit itself is not legitimate if the property owner does not comply with current laws. Besides the fact that the owner must live on-premise year-round, the process is complicated and expensive. Most property owners cannot or will not respect the law, and are just taking chances until they are investigated by the City's task force.

There are approximately 600 rental apartments which have complied with the current laws. Most of them do not provide the charm, convenient neighborhoods or amenities which clients prefer. The remaining 200,000 vacation rentals are illegal, according to the city.

People continue to rent, some more successfully than others. But there is no way that you can be assured that the rental you choose will be legitimate.

BumbleB6

Not a rental agency, but a legit hotel chain -
We stayed in - and I really liked - Citadines Bastille-Marais.
The Citadines are hotels with studio and 1 bedroom apartments.
(There are other Citadines hotels throughout Paris - another one is in St.Germain-de-Prés. That one is more central, actually..)

It was very, very simple, but clean, comfortable, and convenient. Price was very reasonable, too (for Paris). We stayed one week in a one bedroom apartment.
There is a breakfast downstairs if you want, but it's extra. A market across the street twice a week.
Metro stops very close by.
I liked the neighborhood and I actually preferred it to the more central areas - not as crowded.
I liked it enough that when I go back to Paris, I'd stay there again.

crefloors

I've always stayed in hotels and the last one, in the 14th was great. I was looking into an apartment because I want to stay for at least 10 days, longer if I can. There could be three of us, so an apartment might be more convenient.

Also, I am far from being a "foodie" and I'd just as soon be able to pick things up at one of the markets or at the grocery store for breakfast and perhaps snacks for later.

Last trip, my girlfriend and I had one "big" meal, later in the afternoon at a cafe or brasserie. We had breakfast included in the room rate at the hotel and we'd grab a snack at the little patisserie around the corner, for when we were back in the room in the evening.

I am far from a picky eater, that's not the issue. I just don't care about spending a ton of money on dining out. It's just not MY thing and please, I now how it often goes here, this is NOT a judgment or criticism of those who get great pleasure from dining at wonderful restaurants.

Anyway, I'll get if figured out at some point. I'm still churning ideas and am always thankful for the information given here.

rialtogrl

-If the owner has several appartments you know it is illegal.-

Does this mean that an outfit like Paris Best Lodge {parisbestlodge.com) is renting illegally? (They seem to be an owner, or a group of owners, not an agency renting the units of absentee owners.)

kerouac

Definitely illegal.

kerouac

(Just look at the information at the bottom of the page -- it is just a listing site and gives no guarantees about anything -- 'non contractuel'.)

Christina

Lots of agencies rent units from owners that may live in Paris or Europe, I'm not understanding how one would know an agency is only renting units of absentee landlords or what difference that would make. In fact, I rented one from parisbestlodge and the owner did live locally but didn't live in the apt being rented, it was being let out to vacationers for investment purposes, and I don't think it was legal in hindsight but this was several years ago before this issue began exploding so much.

I don't know why an agency that was a group of several owners would be more legal than one that handles apts from many owners who choose to list on it. Whether the owner is absentee or not isn't the issue. Parisperfect clearly has a section on their website about owners who may want Parisperfect to handle their apartments, for example. IN fact, agencies like Parisbestlodge are probably more likely to be illegal exactly because the owner does not live there and it is always rented out most of the year (as they promise, the apartment won't have owners' belongings in it). Parisbestlodge clearly is renting investment apts if they promise there won't be any owners belongings in them.
As Parisbestlodge has on their website <<Unlike the major players like AIRBNB, we don’t rent occupied apartments where you share closets with the owner...>>

And Vacationinparis rents apts of people who are French and are renting apts as investments, also, and may even live in Paris. They may have some that have foreign owners, also, don't know, but I know they have some by French owners.

IN fact, I wish Paris would get its act together and issue license numbers that would facilitate renters knowing what was legal and what was not, like Barcelona does. If it is legal for someone to own an apt and always rent it out to others in some circumstances in Paris (except say if they want it for a few weeks), I'd be interested in knowing when that was legal. Such as the apartments that VIP, Parisbestlodge and Parisperfect have.

Other than being concerned about something going wrong with an investment, I can see the position that it isn't your responsibility to figure out if the owner is doing things legally or not, just as you don't do that when patronizing a store, figure out if they are paying their taxes correctly or not, or following local zoning standards, etc. It's not at the moral level of knowing you are dealing with someone selling stolen goods or something worse, in my opinion. Now if you know it is illegal, that may be another issue.

rialtogrl

-As Parisbestlodge has on their website <<Unlike the major players like AIRBNB, we don’t rent occupied apartments where you share closets with the owner...>>-

Right. But perhaps that Airbnb renter is actually renting out his place legally. I had hoped that Paris Best Lodge was doing things legally though.

kerouac

Exactly. "Sharing a closet with the owner" or bookcases full of books are important signs that the owner really lives there and that the rental is legal.

Whathello

Christina,
If you don't bother reading what the laws say about illegal rentals, don't bother answering on threads that discuss it.

'In fact, I rented one from parisbestlodge and the owner did live locally but didn't live in the apt being rented, it was being let out to vacationers for investment purposes,'

That is the EXACT definition of the illegal rentals that Paris authorities want to fight.
Whether it is something you like, find useful or ... is irrelevant.

StCirq

<<it isn't your responsibility to figure out if the owner is doing things legally or not>>

No, it isn't. But don't whine that your vacation was ruined because the Paris Mayor's Office happened to crack down on the apartment you rented and the owner took it off the market suddenly and left you on the street. It's happened.

Illegal rentals also often have less than adequate fire and storm damage security. Good luck if your illegal apartment catches on fire or is inundated during a storm. What are you going to do? With an apart-hotel, you're covered no matter what happens.

You can take your chances or have peace of mind. I'd prefer the latter.