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Croatia - 10 Day Late-Feb Self-Driving Itinerary

Croatia - 10 Day Late-Feb Self-Driving Itinerary

Old Jan 7th, 2017, 04:36 PM
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Croatia - 10 Day Late-Feb Self-Driving Itinerary

Hi,

We are planning a short 10 day trip to Croatia at the end of February; we know it is off-season, we know many places may be shut or open only for a few hours. We are a young couple from India and usually travel light and prefer packed schedules. While we have travelled mostly using public transport earlier, we intend to take a rental car for this trip. It would be great if some of you could guide us on our itinerary as below.

Day 1 (Fri)

• Fly into Zagreb, arrive in afternoon

• Spend half day exploring Zagreb (any recommendations?)

Day 2 (Sat)

• Pickup rental car and do a day trip to Istria

• Cover Rovinj, Pula & Motovun

• Sleep in Zagreb

Day 3 (Sun)

• A second day trip from Zagreb

• Travel to Ljubliana and Lake Bled (are both possible in a day?)

• Sleep in Zagreb

Day 4 (Mon)

• Check out from Zagreb early

• Travel to NP Plitvice, explore the park for 3-4 hrs

• Sleep near Plitvice or Zadar (Is Zagreb-Plitivice-Zadar doable in a day?)

Day 5 (Tue)

• Check out and explore Zadar

• Drive from Zadar to Split stopping at Trogir/Solin along the way

• Sleep in Split

Day 6 (Wed)

• Explore Split

• Sleep in Split

Day 7 (Thu)

• Check out from Split early

• Travel to Dubrovnik via Mostar (is this doable? Worth?)

• Sleep in Dubrovnik

Day 8 (Fri)

• Explore Dubrovnik

• Sleep in Dubrovnik

Day 9 (Sat)

• Explore Dubrovnik (are any islands viable in Feb?)

• Sleep in Dubrovnik

Day 10 (Sun)

• Fly Out from Dubrovnik

We feel that having a car will help us keep to our own schedules and pace. Would the above itinerary be feasible via public transport in Feb? How expensive is taking up tour companies to do some of the day trips? Any advice on renting cars or driving in Croatia in Feb will be much appreciated.
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Old Jan 7th, 2017, 05:26 PM
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I would take a night from your three nights in Dubrovnik (which is lovely - but not very big and probably pretty dead in February) and add it somewhere else - maybe in Mostar or Rovinj.

In February, I'd probably want a night in Ljubljana, which is not a tourist town and will probably be much more interesting at night than the coastal towns which will probably be pretty slow. (And Ljubljana is a personal favorite, anyway.)

Maybe:
Zagreb (1 night)
Drive to Bled, drive back to Ljubljana
Ljubljana (1 night)
Drive to Rovinj, Pula, Motovan
Rovinj (1 or 2 nights)
Drive to Plitvice (about 3 hours from Rovinj)
Plitvice (1 night)
Drive to Split; stop in Zadar on the way down
Split (2 nights)
(Day trip to Trogir, etc.)
Drive to Mostar, explore for a few hours; drive to Dubrovnik
Optional night in Mostar if not Rovinj)
Drive to Dubrovnik
Dubrovnik (2 nights)


Driving does make some sense - but what if it snows? Are you used to driving on snowy roads?

You could even skip Zagreb (not a favorite of mine - but it is the capital city) if you could fly directly to Ljubljana. Its easy to get to Bled from Ljubljana by bus. If you want to rent a car in Croatia and return it there too (cheapest approach - if you rent it in Slovenia return in Croatia you'd incur a steep drop-off fee), you could take the train from Ljubljana to Rijeka and pick up a car there - that's what I did in 2015 - and drive to Istria. (There is train service Ljubljana to Pula too but not direct and a longer train ride than the direct train to Rijeka).

Try EconomyCarRentals, Kemwel, and Auto Europe for car rental prices.

You could work out much of this by train and (mostly) bus, but of course you lose a lot of time with your rushed schedule. Try BusCroatia.com and Rome2Rio.com for routings. I think trying to visit Motovan is difficult by public transportation. You can otherwise decide whether the schedules would work and be worth your wasted time vs. renting a car.
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Old Jan 7th, 2017, 07:03 PM
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First and foremost, if there is any chance that you will have jet lag, I would strongly encourage you to take public transportation for your few nights. There is mounting evidence that driving with jet lag is just as dangerous -- to yourself and others -- as driving drunk, and nothing you can do will prevent the microsleeps (which you might not even notice) that are the apparent culprit. There’s plenty to see and do in Zagreb (a city I really enjoy), so consider spending a couple of nights there.

One day is very little to “cover” Rovinj, Pula, & Motovun, especially as a day trip from Zagreb and during a time of year with limited sunlight.

I suspect that its technically possible to visit both Ljubljana and Lake Bled in a single day trip from Zagreb. Personally, I can not imagine that it would be a pleasant experience.

If the weather permits, it is best to plan on making a single 6 to 7 hour loop in the Plitvice Lakes National Park.

It isn't clear to me that you will have any time to actually see Zadar. Again, I don't think you are planning your time in light of the limited hours of daylight you will encounter.

Having a car in Split or Dubrovnik can be a serious disadvantage. Public transportation is easy and convenient, and it would allow the driver to see some of the world’s most spectacular scenery – and on some of those roads, the driver really will need to pay CAREFUL attention to the road, even in the best of conditions. And as Andrew notes, if you are not accustomed to driving in snow or sleet – as can happen in the northern parts of your route – you could find yourselves in an extremely dangerous situation. Using public transportation rather than a rental car would only “waste your time” if you don’t pay attention to the schedules when planning your time.

I would encourage you to give serious thought to dropping a destination or two. Otherwise, you will be spending a disproportionate amount of time in transit for the little time you will have on the ground. Because Dubrovnik is generally close to shuttered in February, cutting it might make sense. Just my opinion.

Good luck!
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Old Jan 7th, 2017, 07:20 PM
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I would drop Istria and Slovenia. With 10 days you do not have enough time.

Save them for another trip. After Zagreb (more time would be nice there) head to Plitvice then Dalmatia.
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Old Jan 8th, 2017, 07:08 AM
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Thanks for the inputs.

@ Andrew

We were thinking if it would be a better idea to take the train to Ljubliana from Zagreb on Day 2 and spend the night. Return to Rijeka on Day 3 and pickup the car for our onwards journey from there.

We have driven under very heavy rain (low visibility) but don't have much experience with snow. If we keep to the motorways will that not be ok with winter tyres?

@ Kja

We aim to start driving only after a full night's rest in Zagreb so jet lag should not be a problem. We may even delay it by anothe day if we choose to go to Ljubliana by train.

We were thinking of Zadar as mostly a night stop with may be a couple of hours of exploration in the morning. Would it be worth spending more time?

We realise that the car would be pretty much parked while we explore split and dubrovnik but we need it to travel in between. I here that coastal route is pretty amazing.

@ rialtogrl

We planned to initially cover fewer places but then realised that the islands are not an option in Feb so decided to add those other places. We may still end up doing just one of either Istria or Slovenia given the weather.

Any specific inputs on those sights would help make up our mind.
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Old Jan 8th, 2017, 09:25 AM
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I don't think a day trip to an island is out of the question. Weather permitting you could go out to Hvar for a day, or Korcula. If you only want to drop one I'd drop Istria because a day is not near enough to see all that stuff. It takes four hours, not three, to get to Plitvice from Rovinj.
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Old Jan 8th, 2017, 09:26 AM
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ks1234, I grew up driving in the snow so I know how to drive in it. But I still don't like to. It can be dangerous. And although I have never driven in Slovenia or Croatia in the snow, I know there's not much they can do during a storm to keep the roads clear all the time. And patches of ice can develop when the temperature warms and cools. Winter tires can't do anything to help you drive safely over ice - you simply need to watch for it, and sometimes you can't see "black ice." Experienced drivers in these conditions at least know what they are facing.

The point is: driving on snowy roads can be dangerous and at worst really slow you down, even for people who are experienced in driving in those conditions. No, it isn't like driving in heavy rain at all.

If I were you, I would plot out an alternative itinerary with trains and buses just in case. If you arrive in Zagreb and the weather forecast is clear, go ahead with your original plan. But if there are heavy storms predicted, you may wish to alter your plans. I have taken the trains between Zagreb and Ljubljana and Ljubljana and Rijeka and they work fine. I have not taken many buses - I don't care for long bus rides myself, but both countries do seem to have decent bus systems.
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Old Jan 8th, 2017, 10:01 AM
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As Andrew states, driving in winter conditions is absolutely nothing like driving in heavy rain, with or without limited visibility, and snow tires are not sufficient to ensure safety. Snow and ice -- and particularly "black ice" -- can be deadly. And snow and sleet can occur even when not predicted. Planning a very rushed trip that can only be accomplished by keeping to a very tight driving schedule honestly makes no sense whatsoever.

Of course Zadar is worth more than a few hours. Everything you are thinking of visiting is worth more than a few hours! Your call about how to spend your time, but it simply does not seem realistic.

And yes, the coast route between Split and Dubrovnik is amazing. And its the same route that the bus takes. So if you take the bus, you BOTH get to see the scenery. Buses in Croatia are very comfortable and very convenient.

rialtogrl has given you some excellent advice.
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Old Jan 9th, 2017, 03:39 PM
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Thank you for your very pertinent inputs. We have modified the as below itinerary to make it more reasonable.

Day2: Take train to Ljubljana and spend the night.
Day3: Take early morning train back to Rijeka and pickup car. Explore whatever is possible in the area.
Day4: Onwards to Plitvice, spend the night in Plitvice.
Day5: Drive to Split via Zadar - Trogir
Day6: Split
Day7: Drive to Dubrovnik
Day8: Dubrovnik
Day9: Try and sail to an island from Dubrovnik
Day10: Fly Out

Driving mostly on the coast would reduce chances of encountering snow (given end of Feb). Nonetheless we have worked out alternate bus routes which would allow us to carry out the same itinerary (may be skipping some of the in-bet-weens).

Please do provide inputs to further sharpen this.
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Old Jan 9th, 2017, 04:02 PM
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Why Rijeka?
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Old Jan 9th, 2017, 04:15 PM
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Probably Rijeka because the OP wants to explore Istria nearby. Rovinj is accessible only by bus from Ljubljana, and there are limited car rental agencies there - though the OP might wish to check rates there, too. I trained to Rijeka instead of the bus specifically to avoid the long bus ride (and because I enjoy trains)...and then picked up my car and drove to Rovinj.
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Old Jan 10th, 2017, 04:17 AM
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Rijeka is fairly well connected to destinations in Istria and also other areas which I am intrested in.
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Old Jan 10th, 2017, 04:48 PM
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It helps to know your reasoning, ks1234! So let me offer an alternative: If I understand correctly, you are flying in Zagreb on a Friday afternoon, and then, on day 2, taking the train to Ljubljana, where you will spend the night. Instead of going to Rijeka the next day, you might want to take a bus to Bled and then move on to Zagreb. Doing so would still put you on pace to pick up a car in Zagreb and head to the Plitvice Lakes on Day 4. My reasons for suggesting this alternative are to allow you to see a wider range of terrains. You should be able to see some stunning Alps from Bled if you can get there before sunset! Maybe you are hoping to do that on day 2, but I fear that you won’t have sufficient time. I could be wrong! I also think it might make more sense to stop in Zagreb before heading to the Plitvice Lakes than trying to stop in Istria. Unlike Zagreb, much of Istria will be very quiet at that time of year; if you go onto any of the back roads to see the hill towns, it can be surprisingly easy to get lost, and the traffic around Rijeka itself can be a nightmare. If you were to go far enough to see Rovinj or Pula, you would almost certainly need to leave whichever no later than about 1 p.m. to make sure you get to the Plitvice Lakes before sunset -- and trust me, driving in that area after dark is NOT something you want to experience! And BTW, that estimate gives you no time to stop en route, no time for a traffic jam in Rijeka ( sat in traffic that was barely inching along for more than an hour), no time for getting lost.... Just some things to consider.

BTW, I’m not sure how your “back-up” bus plans would work – once you pick up a rental car, you need to get it back to the company of one of its offices….
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Old Jan 10th, 2017, 05:04 PM
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Again: ks1234 is choosing Rijeka as a way to explore Istria. If ks1234 decides it's not worth the time to see Istria, he'll probably choose Zagreb instead.

ks1234 could get stuck in a traffic jam in Zagreb too, right? No one has ever mentioned a traffic jam in Rijeka except for you - I certainly didn't encounter one when I arrived in the late afternoon. In February? Seems no more likely than in Zagreb. Something that happened to you one time probably isn't something to generalize about.

It's hard to get lost on the roads in Istria if you have a GPS. I visited four hill towns, wandering all over the place up some pretty small roads, and my GPS never let me down.

I gathered that the "bus backup plan" was something the OP could use if upon arriving in Zagreb, a big snowstorm was forecast for those days he would be driving inland. If so, he could choose the bus option and never pick up the car at all. And he's probably right about the fact that snow along the Dalmatian coast is less likely than inland. Still, you can in fact return a car earlier than planned in some cases. When I rented from Oryx in Rijeka in 2015, they told me I could return the car at any of their offices all over Croatia should I choose, not just Zagreb, at no extra cost. (I was considering dropping the car in Split instead, so I asked them.) This policy probably depends on the car company.
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Old Jan 10th, 2017, 07:27 PM
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@ Andrew: I try not to make assumptions about what the OP does or doesn't want or what the OP does or doesn’t think; that’s why I asked. I am simply trying to provide potentially information and options based on an understanding of the OP's interests and goals -- which sometimes (I think) means asking a question or two. I leave the decisions to the OP -- seriously, only the OP can decide what to do!

But since YOU asked, and since my answers might be of value to the OP:

• IME, it is easier to get stuck in traffic around Rijeka then around Zagreb because in the area around Rijeka, a substantial network of roads is funneled into a limited set of multi-lane highways, with very closely spaced entrances and exits and little time to move into the proper lanes -- a "recipe" for traffic jams. In contrast, one has more options for how to navigate and which roads to choose in Zagreb. Of course, there are no guarantees, but thinking about the possibility is not, IMO, an irrelevant consideration. For example, a traffic jam that results in a long drive on unlit rural roads is different than a traffic jam that results in a later-than-expected arrival at a hotel that is along well lit urban streets. JMO.

• I must admit that I don’t understand how my mention of a particular traffic experience in Rijeka (offered parenthetically, as an example of an unexpected event) is substantively different than your mention of a particular traffic experience there, but I’m sure the OP can make his/her own judgment.

• Whether GPS helps avoid getting lost in the hill towns of Istria -- or anywhere -- depends, I think, on the accuracy, currency, and thoroughness of the GPS maps and the extent to which unexpected road closures are captured. I’m glad you've never had a problem. I have. Although I, personally, would never plan a trip on the assumption that GPS will make travel problem-free, you are (of course) free to plan your trips however you want.

As I have said to you before, Andrew, I don’t challenge your right to provide whatever advice you choose to provide. I respectfully ask you -- once again -- to please extend to me the courtesy of allowing me to offer the advice that I feel comfortable offering, without challenging every statement I make.

@ ks1234: My sincere apologies for these digressions. I hope that you are finding at least some value in them!
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Old Jan 10th, 2017, 07:30 PM
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Will you stop challenging my statements, kja? Or is it just one-way street?
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Old Jan 10th, 2017, 08:30 PM
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@ Andrew: I make a sincere effort to present my impressions and advice without challenging the legitimacy of anyone else's impressions or advice, including yours. Offering differing opinions is, as I understand it, not equivalent to challenging another's viewpoint, and, IME, offering differing opinions can be done respectfully and with awareness that alternative experiences / perspectives / experiences are not only entirely possible, but expected and normal. I think it can be helpful to hear differing opinions, as those differences might help OPs make decisions, or know what else to ask or learn. JMO.

I make no attempt to challenge you, Andrew -- in fact, I often acknowledge the merits of your comments, and I try to be very clear that differences in opinion are inevitable. (And frankly, I don't always read your comments. Sorry, but true. Or we post at the same time.... Whatever, my goal is to respond to the OP.)

Over the years, I have offered any number of apologies to you because you have taken offense at something I said that was never intended as a criticism, insult, offense, or -- in fact -- anything about YOU. And if I have somehow, however unintentionally, once again made you feel that I was challenging YOU, rather than providing my input, well then, I apologize yet again -- that was not my intent. I'm sure you can find examples to support your interpretation -- I am NOT perfect, and almost any communication IS subject to interpretation! I don't know of anything I can do other than assert the truth -- criticizing you was NOT among my intentions.

In contrast, I think I could make a compelling argument that you have repeatedly questioned my motives, challenged my statements, and offered comments that could -- at their best -- be understood as disparaging. I have chosen not to pursue that argument. Maybe it's time I do?

Honestly, Andrew, I implore you to please stop treating me as your adversary. I mean you no harm. I bear you no malice. Although I don't always agree with you, I respect and value the time and effort you take to share your experiences with OPs -- and I think they are better off for having your input, whether it jives with mine or not. I just want to be free to provide my own input to OPs. Is that so much to ask?
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 04:52 AM
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@Kja

Thanks for the inputs. I was myself considering the option of staying back another day in Slovenia but like you said, I got a little greedy and wanted to see even more terrain (Istria). Also, the plan would be to see Istria and stay the night in Rijeka on Day 3. Will head to Plitvice only the next morning. All of my other reasons/back ups have already been enunciated by Andrew.

Also, driving in dark? I was thinking I might have to endure at least some of it. What has been your experience like in Croatia?

@Kja, @Andrew

Please let our shared love for travel be the only guiding force. We need it to be so, especially in times like these.
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 08:06 AM
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ks1234, it seems like a bit of a haul to go to Ljubljana for less than 24 hours, so I agree that you may as well stay on 2 nights and weather permitting, you can go to Bled. It is only 45 minutes to an hour north of Ljubljana. The train to Rijeka takes almost three hours, so even if you arrive there midday, and pick up a car, you are not going to have a lot of time to see too much in Istria. It takes 90 minutes to get to Rovinj or Pula.

Opatija is not as far. You could also visit Trsat which is in Rijeka. http://www.visitrijeka.eu/What_To_See/Trsat

There's a nice castle, good views, and a cafe/bar. Not sure what else will be going on up there in February.

Have you planned out how long its going to take you to get everywhere? Maybe you really enjoy time on the train. Honestly I would stay in Zagreb longer and save both Slovenia and Istria for another trip but its not my trip.

If you do decide on the Rijeka plan, maybe make the Plitvice a "weather permitting" stop and if it looks bad you can add on to your time in Istria. For instance, if it is icy and cold, Plitvice may be best saved for another trip. If it warms enough to melt snow, some of the park could be closed off due to flooding. These are things to watch for. It would suck to get to Plitvice only to find out half the paths are closed. (Been there, done that.)

If you have not already done so I would sit down and plot the time it takes to get between each place. The only area where it looks like you will be able to relax is in Dubrovnik.

I hope you will come back to report, I have never been to Croatia in February and would be interested on how it goes!
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 08:43 AM
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I've seen pictures of Plitvice in the snow - looks pretty! Just wouldn't want to have to drive through snow to get there...
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