Credit card info thievery in Europe, is it really that common?

We've traveled to Germany, Austria and/or Switzerland 5 times since 1999 and have never had any suspicious charges on our credit card.

In 2006, when we arrived in Germany we spent 3 nights in Bacharach. I used my credit card once on the entire trip while in Bacharach at a small souvenir shop. When we returned home a couple of weeks later, there was notification from my credit card company that they were cancelling my credit card and sending me a replacement. When pressed for a reason, they just told me that Master Card Int'l had informed them, Citibank, that security had been compromised on some of the vendor's information.

No fraudulent charges were ever made and it was a big hassle to change my auto pay accounts.

Citibank blew security on about 500,000 cards a couple of years ago. They told cardholders all sorts of tales why their cards were canceled.

Well, I have to say that this was the first time it ever happened to me, though it was only my 2nd time in Paris/Europe. My trip took me back home via BRussels.

I was notified by my cc company 2 days after I got home that there had been suspicious activity on my card. I immediately checked my acct online. It looked like somewhere in Brussels, there were 4 charges that were made 2 days after leaving the city. All 4 were just over 50 euros.

The only time I used my cc was to charge my hotel, La Maison du Dragon (a hotel that seems to espcially cater to guests of Chinese origin). Otherwise, the rest of my cc charges were all made in Paris.

I knew I didn't like Brussels the moment I set foot on it.

I don't have citibank visa. I have fidelity.

there are so many posts about thievery and scams to folks while in Europe, with an equal amount of people responding that nothing happened to them on their vacation. My uncle had his identity stolen while he was in the U of Pennsylvania hospital with leukemia. My home here in the DC suburbs has been burglarized twice. I have never had any crime happen to me in many years of travel.

Could it be that there are thieves and dishonest people all over the world, that you are just as likely to be nailed at home or on vacation?

Nothing whatsoever to do with being in Europe. It happens everywhere. Just one of those things.

I once used my credit card to pay for a taxi here in Spokane. I hadn't used the card for about a month because I'd been in the hospital and in rehab for a knee replacement. My credit card company called me to say that someone had tried to buy $2500 worth of computer equipment on my card, but they'd refused the charge.

Since I hadn't used the card for anything but the taxi, I feel certain that the culprit was the driver, but I never accused him.

Due to the chip technology, I believe there is very little credit card fraud in Western Europe. So the crooks concentrate on the foreign cards without chips.

I agree about the chip and pin. My friend was here in London and someone stole her purse with all your ID and cards. She has a European chip and pin card and a canadian card. They left all the ID and cards and through the purse in a restroom where someone found it. My friend took a quick peak and though everything was there. She got a call a few days later from the canadian card company and the theives had taken the non chip and pin card and went to town buying stuff.

<<< Due to the chip technology, I believe there is very little credit card fraud in Western Europe. >>>

All the crooks did was shift the purchases to cases where a PIN isn't needed - online / mail order for example.

So CC fraud is still there, it's just in a different form

Online orders now require the security code in addition to the card number. You need to physically have the card to know which security code is marked on it.

Is this a case for cash only?

I had cc fraud on a recent trip to the US. The card was cloned and used. The ccd company said that the US and Middle East are the most common places that cloned cards end up. In the US, they did not ask me for ID with ccd and some places did not even need signature. When paying at a restaurant, they always took the ccd away out of sight.

I also had ccd fraud from another trip to Sweden. In this case it was online transactions that did not require security code. The ccd company said liability was passed back to the merchant since they did not have adequate security on their website ie they did not ask for the security code.

Those PIN numbers get stored somewhere so would not assume that there is little fraud in western europe.

"Due to the chip technology, I believe there is very little credit card fraud in Western Europe"

There's any number of stories about PIN-related fraud. Microcameras recording PIN entries and correlating them with old style skimming rackets, for example. In our tiny Cotswold town, one woman claims to have been skimmed on a card she'd used only at our railway station and at a Marks & Spencer branch.

One good thing with chip and pin is that your card is read at the restaurant table and doesn't get taken away by the waiter.

For goodness sake crime happens everywhere , just because it hadn't happened to you at home doesn't mean it doesn't happen just as much at home.

My ATM card got "scanned" and used fraudlently,, to the turn of 500 dollars withdrawn in a two minute period( first a 200 dollar withdrawal , then a 300 dollar one) .. then luckily my bank closed it down.

This happened two weeks ago in my home town, small twon western Canada, it can happen ANYWHERE!

Is this a case for cash only?

No more (or less) than in the US.

I'm a European, I use a CC here all the time. My card has been cloned once, and as far as I can tell, it happened in Indiana of all places.

It's only happened to me twice. Both times suspiciously close to the only times I've used a certain catalogue store (that tourists won't ever visit) here in the UK.

I'm a European, and only recently got my chip and pin card. I have never had my card skimmed or misused, ever. It has been stolen, twice - once during a break in at home, once my purse was stolen. Each time I was able to cancel the card quickly with no use having been made of it.
That said neither I or my husband let our cards out of our sight. In the US recently if we had to leave the card with the cashier whilst filling up the car one of us stayed inside with the card in our hand until the other had filled up.

The same is true with our debit cards - which do get skimmed too, more often than you'd realise. The use of a small camera enables them to get the pin, and the skimmer is put on an ATM so it looks like the normal card slot, or the cashier uses an extra skimmer that you don't see. I never pay with a card if they want to take it off me. Here in the Netherlands now many ATMs have holograms on the card slot and warnings about skimming.

So the simple thing to do whether in the US or Europe (or anywhere else in the world) is never let the card out of your hand/sight. If you have a pin with it make sure you hide your hand well whilst keying it in.

As others said Europe has nothing to do with it.

Amex called me last week saying they'd refused a $2400.00 charge for a ticket to Tokyo. I hadn't used that particular card anywhere for a few months except at a restaurant that still uses the old fashioned card embossing machine. Even then the card was not out of my sight, so that is no guarantee either. The security people said to look at the receipts from electronic machines you are signing and if your whole account number is on it, to black out the numbers as they are not used by the merchant for any purpose.

It happened to me about 10 years ago in the UK. Just a couple of unknown charges to my CC which were removed when I protested. Not a big deal & certainly didn't put me off using my credit card.

Thieves know no borders.

I really seem to be missing out on an interesting dimension of life. I have used CCs and ATM cards for donkey's years, principally at home in Ireland but also a few times a year elsewhere in Europe and sometimes further afield. Telephone and online transactions, too.

Never had a problem (well, never had a card-related problem; ensuring the funds to cover the transaction is another matter).

It also happened to me in Florence last year. The only time I used my credit/debit card was when we were checking out of the hotel we stayed at to pay for the tickets they reserved for us at the Uffizi and Acadameia cost 33 euros (about $44.00), by the time I got to the states my bank was calling me trying to verify about $400.00 to a Paypal account from Ebay. My bank did not process the charges until they confirmed it with me since they were aware of my travel dates and thought it something was amiss because the charges were being made on the date that I told them I was flying back (was actually in the air at the time).

Of course, at the time I had never heard of Paypal and had never bought anything from Ebay.

I was so glad that my bank was on top of things and this was my card that ties into my checking account. I did use my other cards Amex and Citibank, but no fradulent charges were made to them.

i travel at least 10 times a year - europe, africa and australia. have never had any bad experiences.

just get the emergency number of your cc company and relax.

being in the wrong place at the wrong time anything can happen anywhere in the world!

enjoy travelling!

div

Never had any bad experiences with credit cards, either. But more than 90% of my use is for hotels and not for small purchases for which I can use cash.

Hi C,

Down heere, in my little town in Georgia, we have weekly reports of identity theft from both tourists and locals.

The more often you use your cc the more likely you are to have problems.
I console myself with this thought while queueing behind these characters who pull out a cc every time they want a bar of chocolate.
I also imagine them being torn apart by wild animals. This helps too.

Its only happened once to me - on an AA corporate card which was used by someone to pay for a luxury weekend in an Irish hotel. The card had only ever been used in the US and for travel between US and UK. One call fixed it.
Skimming the regulars at a shop/restaurant is likely to be noticed - people talk to each other. Tourists are better targets.

<<Amex called me last week saying they'd refused a $2400.00 charge for a ticket to Tokyo.>>

A friend had a similar incident. She used her card in Maine and was called a couple of days later to verify a large purchase in Japan.

<<Skimming the regulars at a shop/restaurant is likely to be noticed - people talk to each other. Tourists are better targets.
>>


It used to happen a lot at petrol pumps here in the Netherlands - locals, tourists, anybody got done. They only need your card once, and there is no way of knowing where it happened of course. Now it is increasingly rare though still done - only last week a couple of Bulgarians were caught trying to fit a skimmer to an NS ticket machine.

The Netherlands is increasingly an cashless society with everyone using their debit card to pay at supermarkets and other shops, even for small amounts, which makes it easier for skimmers maybe. CCs aren't used so much here to pay for things in shops.

With internet payments using a CC you need to be absolutely sure you are at the secure site of the merchandiser not at some site a hacker has added to the system. Once they have your number and verification code they can do anything they like with it.

Sorry for suggesting that credit card thievery only happens in Europe. I guess traveling/vacationing anywhere makes you more vulnerable to fraud because of your use of cc in more frequency than while at home (where you use it in more familiar and trusted establishments).

I have never had anything like this happen before, though my check book was once stolen at a ferry on the way to Alcatraz in SFO, and there were attempts to cash out one of my checks. That was 18 yrs ago. I travel around the US quite often, and only in the last 3 years I am traveling outside the US. So something like this happening to me made me more wary while traveling in Europe.

No offense to anyone. But I have to say that I really didn't like Brussels. There's too much trash in the streets. Maybe it's just me?

citrouille wrote: "But I have to say that I really didn't like Brussels. There's too much trash in the streets. Maybe it's just me?"

Don't be hard on yourself, citrouille. I am sure that you were not trash in the streets.

I like Brussels somewhat. Some pleasant buildings; people easy to deal with; the slightly worn air of an elderly uncle. And beer and chocolate.

Ha!

The old unkempt buildings near Gare du Midi took me by surprise. It was quite a culture shock having stayed in Paris for a week, and to see a dumpy city.

I like the people though. They are just as friendly and helpful as the Parisians. But I couldn't get over the contrast between the two cities. One is classy and sophisticated, the other, well, a bit dumpy.

Then I go home and got all these weird credit card charges from Brussells that I didn't do. Well, can you blame me for feeling this way about it?

Here's my feeling about it...

If it happens, it happens. There's nothing I can do about it...does that means I am going to use my credit cards less...absolutely not...they're there to be used. As for the person who made a statement about waiting on a queue while somebody used a credit card for a bar of chocolate, the fact is in this modern era a credit card transaction takes less time than a cash transaction...I was at the grocery just today and the cashier rang up the person in front of me and I remember it came to $43.57 so this person first pulls out her pocketbook. looks for her purse, peels off a couple of twenty's and then starts looking for 3 singles, starts going through her purse looking for 57 cents, is short a penny or two, goes back into her walletm, finds another $1 and then and only then the cashier makes change.

My order, whatever it was, swiped the card and within seconds the receipt is printed, sign it and off I am. Which transaction is more efficient????

There are things the American card industry could do but refuses to do. One is to go in the direction of chip and pin but I can guarantee you we will never see chip and pin in the USA in the near future as I am sure they have done studies and found their losses due to fraud are less than it would cost to convert all the cards and terminals to chip and pin.

I always find it funny...when I am in the UK the clerk always checks the signature panel and compares signatures...in the USA almost never (grocery, fast food, swipe the card and sometimes sign, sometimes they don't make you sign especially in fast food places)...chip and pin would cut down a bit on merchants stealing numbers (but won't help too much on internet theft of cc numbers)...

Has happened to me a couple of times...always a couple of phone calls resolved the issue.

What would help in the USA and should be required is that restaurants should be forced to have those portable terminals they have in Europe and bring them to the table rather than disappearing with your card into a backroom where the number (as well as the security code BTW) can be compromised...that is something that State Legislatures should require.

The Chip and pin setup is no guarantee against CC thievery. Several residents of Maidenhead were recently scammed out of many £ due to card cloners.
http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/news/article-6827-card-cloning-scam-alert/

While scam artists can be found everywhere that you find people with money--cash, checks, credit cards, and in any other form--it's not "common" in western Europe.

xyz, agreed with you on the cash versus cc thing as for the swiftness of a transaction. I'd rather not carry cash either. But the foreign transaction fee is nearly comparable to highway robbery. Ok, a bit of exaggeration there.

But really, because my bank doesn't charge ATM withdrawals, I would prefer to pay with cash. Unfortunately, that evening I checked into a hotel in Brussels, I didn't have cash for 310Euros. The ftf for it was a whopping $14.some change.

After the fraudulent charges episode experience, I am more likely to pay in cash from now on. It's not worth the hassle, despite needing only a "phone call" to fix the problem. I can't use my cc as of now until I get my new card. If I happen to be still staying in Europe at the time, I would have been credit card-less.

Thank goodness for ATM technology! At least I have that option provided I have a deep pocket account in my checking.

Foreign transaction fee...no problem...use Capital One...no foreign transaction fee!

Just got back from London last week...made a £20 withdrawal from an ATM on the first day there and still had £8 left at the end of the week..

Credit cards taken everywhere no matter how small...

Fast food places (McDonald's Preat a Manger)

Grocery chains (Tesco, Sainsbury) for things such as sodas, chips whatever for half time at the theatres and for late nights in the hotel..

Dinners (always eat at Japanese restaurants in London, relatively (and I mean relatively) inexpensive...they all take cards.

Theatre tickets

Hotel

London tube station for a 7 day zone 1 & 2 oyster card with £1 on PAYG for the trip on Sunday morning to Heathrow.

About the only places that I couldn't use the cc's and had to pay cash was my daily visit to an internet cafe (£1 for 2 hours) to read the home town newspapers, to catch up on email, to pay my bills, to check my credit card account to see nothing bad was happening) as well as a couple of pints at pubs (although in some of the pubs, they take credit cards for food)

Woud say that on the 7 days I was in London I must have used my card 43 times...far more efficient than cash and you know something...nothing untoward happened (not that London is better than any other place of course0 and as noted, one possible source of theft of cc numbers was resolved when in almost every restaurant, when I took out my credit card, they didn't take the credit card but rather brought over that portable terminal, saw it wasn't a chip and pin card so they swiped it right in front of me.

The only bad thing is that in one convenience store in particular, the illiterate clerk kept insisting he had to stick the card into the chip and pin terminal first and then swiped it (which is of course not true) and after several attempts at this, started to rub off the signature panel (unlike the USA, they check signatures in most stores in London)...

Believe me, the thought that maybe my card could be compromised would not stop me from living in this 21st century way!

Have been to europe 70+ times between vacation and business and used crdit cards for everything I could most trips.

Have never had any sort of a problem.

But have - twice - had problems with card info being stolen in the US - once recently from an internet purchase - and once at least 10 yers ago - apparently from a copy of one of my receipts at a restaurant.

It can happen anywhere.

I have never had a CC problem until just a couple weeks ago, actually, and I've had several continually for about 30 years.

There weren't any fraudulent charges because my issuer (Capitol One) called me just while they were being attempted and refused them, or something like that. My card wasn't stolen and I am not sure if someone got my number from a place I've used it in real life or online or not. In fact, they called because someone was trying to use the number online at various websites (Paypal, etc) all within a few minutes, and for bizarre charges--like one cent or 50 cents. So they asked me if I were trying to make those charges within the last few hours and I said no, I haven't used my card at all for over 24 hours. So they said they had to cancel the CC and would send me a new one in 5-7 days, which they did.

I have no idea what happened, but Capitol One said a lot of time, they are really just typing in random digits online and waiting to see which ones work, and it could have been that -- and that's why they were trying repeatedly small trivial amounts. This didn't really make any sense to me (as it is what alerted them, as well as many a lot within a short time of each other), as if it isn't your card anyway, why wouldn't you put in some realistic amount like $10 at least, so it wouldn't look so strange. After all, it wasn't their money if it worked.

I hadn't even used my card that much in the last week, only normal things like a chain grocery store, and perhaps some online purchases, but to big, normal secure websites (like Amazon). So I do think the random punching of digits could have been what was happening, I'll never know. With most CCs, the first digits are standard for the issuer, so you'd only have to have some random dialer for part of the digits.

We just returned from a trip in Europe; Amsterdam to Budapest and many spots in-between. This is probably our 10th trip somehwhere in Europe, and more weeks than I can count. Never a CC problem. My greater concern is the fee charged by my CC companies, so this trip got enough Euros--ouch--to only use the cards twice the whole trip. The ATM fee is about 1 % lower than the CC fee.

I also notify my CC company and ATM Bank of our travels so they don't cancel on us because of where we are. An ATM card will be canceled the moment you withdraw over the daily limit of your account. You need to know this figure to avoid cancelation.

Since so many offers for credit cards, store charge cards, etc. come in the mail with a facsilmile card, I am in the habit of keeping them. When it's time to travel I take a few along. I put a fake card in my pocket for a pick pocket and one in my pocketbook to hand over to a thief. They will not take the time to check out the information on the card. This tactic may just help.

I think it's really hard to avoid CC snafus while traveling. I've called my CC companies and banks before I've left, and had that work out perfectly. And I've called before I've left, and had them flag my card too.

Apparently, the Innsbruck train station (Hauptbahnof)is apparently a hot bed for credit card thievery and suspicious activity, and my bank card was flagged there after trying to use the ATM. Just a word of caution for anyone traveling through there

I would always error on the side of calling and telling them where you're going. And be sure to take receipts with you when you leave European restaurants. They often print your entire credit card number on the receipts, instead of the last four digits, which is customary in the U.S.

I have had my cc# stolen in Paris. I still don't know how as I never handed my card over to anyone. I have heard that they can retrieve the number easily from the card reader which is the only way I can think of for it to happen. $1500 was stolen, luckily my bank covered it.

If a thief can get the first few digits correct (and that's pretty easy), the rest are a one-in-ten shot. So if someone knew that AT&T's cards start with 4784, they could pick eleven random digits and start going through 0 through 9, e.g.,

4784 1234 1234 1230
4784 1234 1234 1231
4784 1234 1234 1232
4784 1234 1234 1233
4784 1234 1234 1234
4784 1234 1234 1235
etc.

The sixteenth digit is a Luhn algorithm check digit. There are only ten possibilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhn_algorithm

It's probably surprising it doesn't happen more often that someone just doesn't try a bunch of random numbers online to get a good card. After all, a lot of online websites don't ask for the security code, and while they usually ask for the expiration date (Cap One didn't mention that part of the event, whether the sites they used didn't require that or they had it correct).

However, I thought CCs did have the first four digits fairly standard by issuer, so if you knew one from anywhere, even had one yourself, you could start guessing the other numbers, as it really lowers the number of digits that vary. Someone committing fraud wouldn't care if it were AT&T, Capitol One or whoever. Maybe it varies a little, I don't know, all I know is the first four digits on my Capitol One cards (and I've had three over the years) have always been the same.

Actually, I just checked one of the websites Cap One said they were trying to use (St Vicent de Paul Society charity), and they do require the security code and the expiration date. So either someone did get that information from somewhere I used the card (or an online form) or they got them wrong and that is what triggered the query to Cap One to approve the charges.