Mademoiselle, or monsieur as appropriate, I believe.

Be sure to say something polite when you leave as well: you will hear 'au revoir" or "bonne journee" or often both. But I don't remember anyone adding the "madamoiselle".

Don't touch the merchandise except maybe durable goods in a place like a hardware or book store.

This is news to me. I think a pleasant bonjour or bonsoir is perfectly acceptable, although in some cases you might naturally add madame or monsieur.

Simply saying "bonjour" without adding monsieur or madame/mademoiselle is fine. That way there's no awkward situation in confusing a madame with a mademoiselle. When you leave either "au revoir" or "bonne journée"/"bonne soirée" is fine. Smile and make eye contact too.

It is one of Fodor's urban legends. Saying "bonjour" is perfectly acceptable.

Où sont les journaux américains? ... will also break the ice.

How about

Yo Mama, quoi de neuf?

<Yo Mama, quoi de neuf?> Ca gaze!

For me, it's not so much single or married, it's the feeling I must be looking OLD when people "madame" me On the other hand, some women object to "mademoiselle" for feminist reasons. So yeah, while I find French people usually do say "madame/monsieur/mademoiselle", you're fine not doing it. I hardly ever do, and no-one's run me out of town yet. And it's "bonsoir" at night, if you remember.

I wonder who makes up these rules that the OP cites. Never heard of that, and that would make a lot of French people rude since that is what they do (often say only bonjour). Madame is normal if you are not obviously pretty young, it doesn't mean you "look old." The use of Mme and Mlle in French is kind of clumsy because they don't have a good use of something similar to Ms, although Madame pretty much is used that way for women past the age of 35 or so, I think.

"Madame is normal if you are not obviously pretty young" - exactly... I've lived in France for a few years now, and definitely over that time the number of people calling me Madame has increased and the number calling me Mademoiselle has decreased. Hence it makes me feel old.

What would you say if you were uncertain if the person was a Madame or a Monsieur? This happens in Canada.

Calling someone mademoiselle usually means you are trying to flirt with them or to patronise them. As long as they're visibly over 18, Madame is the standard. But even then you don't NEED to add monsieur/madame...a simple bonjour will do.

"The use of Mme and Mlle in French is kind of clumsy "

It might be clumsy for foreigners but it is not for native speakers.

Bonjour Toutes does for me if there ae many

"Bonjour Toutes does for me if there ae many"

Might do it for you but not for other people, especially if there are men. They'll feel excluded
"Toutes" = feminine plural.
Why try to make simple things complicated? Use "bonjour" with a smile, that's all.

May I also add there is "à" right after bonjour, like in "bonjour à tous"

<<Yo Mama, quoi de neuf?>>

An incomplete greeting. It should be "Yo Mama, quoi de neuf homey?" That has the added advantage of eliminating any age and gender uncertainty.

>>What would you say if you were uncertain if the person was a Madame or a Monsieur? This happens in Canada.<<

Is that why you say "Eh?" all the time?

I agree a plain old 'bonjour' is fine. Especially if you aren't sure if madan or mademoiselle would be correct.

We are a pretty formal family. My kid sirred and ma'med until they were out of college, and no one thought they were referring to "the Bloody Queen." My Southern granddaughters call older people "Mr. John" or "Miss Jean."

Just saying "Bonjour" to me sounds cold. Nothing wrong with adding "ca va?" or "ca va bien?" or addressing a group with "bonjour a tous" like the adorable Sylvie on France 5 News(sorry for lack of diacritics).

But how would I deal with French visitors to the US if I were an American waiter? Can I call them "mecs" the way I would call a table full of Americans "guys"? Should I tutoyer them if I speak to a group, or do I have to say "Vous mecs?" to be polite? And what is the equivalent of "mec" for females (think American "Dudes and dudettes" or the "gal" so common and grating in the Midwest)? Or as so often in French, do the women just become part of the great male group? So much fruit for exploration here!

I leave the more personal "Bonjour M./Mme." to situations when I direct myself more or less immediately to the owner/sales person to ask for something. So the greeting would be more like the first sentence of a subsequent conversation.
If I enter a place just to browse or look around, I'd probably say just Bonjour.
Probably totally artificial and useless that self-made "logic" of mine, but so far I have not been kicked out anywhere.

Just saying "Bonjour" to me sounds cold.
It is not in French.

Nothing wrong with adding "ca va?" or "ca va bien?"
Would be considered weired and probably too familiar if used with complete strangers.

or addressing a group with "bonjour a tous"
Fine if you address a group, not sale people in a shop.

But how would I deal with French visitors to the US if I were an American waiter? Can I call them "mecs"

Surely not. It is slang. It would be considered extremely rude.


Should I tutoyer them if I speak to a group, or do I have to say "Vous mecs?" to be polite?
No "tu", no "vous mecs". Bonjour ou Bonsoir Messieurs/Mesdames and "vous" all the way.

And what is the equivalent of "mec" for females (think American "Dudes and dudettes" or the "gal" so common and grating in the Midwest)? Or as so often in French, do the women just become part of the great male group?

There are many equivalents of mec. Unfortuantely they are all slang and would not be used by a waiter to address his customers. This would (again) be considered very rude.

I wish people would not try to "translate" (in action/language) and to import their habits from one language to another as if it were at all possible. It is not, there are too many cultural differences. The over-friendliness of US waiters makes French patrons cringe and they don't consider it good service to be interrupted umpteen times during their meals. Ditto with being handled the bill before asking for it. Calling someone by his/her first name is not done as easily in France as in it in America.

4.5 hrs ago you said that seulement Bonjour was fine.
Now it sounds cold.
Has the temperature dropped in the Romandie?

Pvoyageuse - In America, do you not enjoy being greeted by a gum smacking waiter/waitress who addresses all males and females at the table with an overly-enthusiastic "Hi guys, what can I get ya!", as if he/she hadn't seen a human in months?

)

As society ages, many restaurant customers are also gum smackers.

You'd think people would at least have manners and stick their gum to the underside of the table where it belongs.

"But how would I deal with French visitors to the US if I were an American waiter? Can I call them "mecs" the way I would call a table full of Americans "guys"? Should I tutoyer them if I speak to a group, or do I have to say "Vous mecs?" to be polite? And what is the equivalent of "mec" for females (think American "Dudes and dudettes" or the "gal" so common and grating in the Midwest)? Or as so often in French, do the women just become part of the great male group?"

Just no, no, and no to all of the above. The French are a surprisingly formal people and would never use this kind of informal language in any context except with friends or family (a

^^rats! sorry about the above. to continue:

(and perhaps not even then! There are some French parents who still demand that their children address them as "vous"...).

Eh alors.. As if there was no way to say "hi guys" in French.. c'est vachement facile:
Salut, les gars!
(les minettes/dudettes can feel included)

P.S. Don't try that out at the Tour d'Argent on a bunch of waiters or your next table neighbors!

Am I just deaf?

I've never heard a customer initiating a greeting with a member of staff in any French shop with a checkout (as distinct from a counter), except in very neighbourhoody-style convenience stores - and even that usually only when the checkout operator and the customer knew each other. And it's always been the stallholder, not the customer, who initiated the mutual greeting in a market.

Indeed, in the French stores I've run, the only recorded examples ever of a greeting from a customer roughly translated as "give me your takings or I'll shoot you".

In the boulangeries, traiteurs and little dress shops, fine. But in Kookai, FNAC, Carrefour or your unfriendly motorway service station? Tu rigoles ou quoi?

I don't speak French (beyond a few pleasantries, and being able to fluently say "I'm sorry I don't speak French). So continuing on with the greeting asking people how they are would be just plain dumb. Since I couldn't understand their reply anyway.

At least there are no gum smacking waiters in Paris that try to ram a drink down your throat the minute you sit down! They are not too friendly but that's ok with me as am there to have good meal not socialize with them. I know this is the wrong forum but had to vent.

Suze you should run the "I don't speak French" by us in case you are saying it incorrectly.

Believe me, cold, it is correct. The friend who I stay with in europe (french-speaking part of switzerland) made me practice it four bazillion times to get it right. She 'forces' me to do errands for her in places where I need to function in the language. So while not fluent by any stretch I am fairly adept at getting things done and not offending merchants or shopkeepers while I'm at it.

That's good Suze as France is the only country in the world where it is critical that you say "Sorry I don't speak your language" perfectly in their language. Or they get pissed of.

Bonjour on way in ( and I have also found that the shopkeeper/waiter will initiate with a Bonjour Monsieur), and a merci au revoir/bonne journee/ bonsoir on way out.

If I were to initiate a conversation..Pardon Monsieur/Madame.

Agree no reason to add words if you are not bilingual, polite and formal

I am bilingual, so no issues with conversations.

Actually the first thing I learn in any new language ls "I am much smarter in English."

Thanks all! Appreciate your help with this.

I'm pretty much bilingual, too, and I have always instinctively said "Bonjour Madame"or "Bonjour Monsieur" or "Bonjour Mademoiselle" upon entering a store.

NOT at a checkout in a grocery store. Never. That would be really weird.

NEVER said "Ca ca?" That would be totally weird too.

And absolutely never "les gars" or "les mecs"; that would be just insulting.

I think in large cities like Paris shopkeepers are more used to just hearing "bonjour," without the "Monsieur" or "Madame" than in villages and towns, but that may be a mistaken impression because I think they deal with more non-French-speaking tourists than in the provinces.

This has been a fascinating discussion.

On the serious side, it is interesting to find that one can be considered too formal in what is a very formal (lots of rules of form) country. Even in the US, what is done and what is polite varies significantly by region and size of city and, dare one say it, by social if not economic class.

On the other hand, mecs et minettes, many of you did not recognize my attempt at humor in my query about American waiters. Their manners, addressing a table full of people old enough to be their grandparents as "guys", is both appalling and sad because they really don't know any better and because no one has trained them. At MacDo's perhaps, but not when you are asking people to drop $75 or $80 per person for dinner.

Enough rant. I shall try to restrain attempts at humor in the future, but I can offer no guarantee.

Enough rant. I shall try to restrain attempts at humor in the future, but I can offer no guarantee

Just raise your right hand when you are telling a joke, so we will know.

Pvoyageuse asked: Should I tutoyer them if I speak to a group, or do I have to say "Vous mecs?" to be polite?

The question does not arise. Even if you decide that you're on tutoyer terms, it's still Vous mecs.

>>Just raise your right hand when you are telling a joke, so we will know.<<

That too is ambiguous. It might be asking permission to leave the room.

I would suggest donning one of those hats with a rotor on top. Or a whirling bow-tie (but not on entering Hermès - Pylones, possibly).

Pvoyageuse asked: Should I tutoyer them if I speak to a group, or do I have to say "Vous mecs?" to be polite?

Why am I quoted? Did I ask this question? really?



"The question does not arise".
The question certainly arises because addressing a bunch of people as 'vous mecs" is vulgar and rude and should be avoided.

The feminine equivalent for mec is nana.

What about "mon pot"? Heard that in few movies.

I think 'pote' translates more closely as 'friend' rather than being gender specific.

Also, how about 'meuf' for a feminine equivalent of 'mec'?

> Why am I quoted? Did I ask this question? really?

Pvoyageuse, your post at 5h37pm is confusing. It's hard to tell which are quotes and which are your comments. Putting > to the quoted lines would have made it easier to understand.

Kerouac, 'nana' is what my son would have called a girl, but then he was most interested in 'Supernana's' before he married and had one of his own!

Jay..

Verlan!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verlan

The masculine equivalent of meuf is keum.

Pote = buddy

it's still Vous mecs.

No, it's Eh les mecs and that is used only among pals.

And then there is the southwestern U.S. cuisine for guys who are computer experts -- techs-mecs, bien sur.

Not that it's the same thing but those who enjoyed this thread might enjoy this article from today's New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/world/europe/france-drops-mademoiselle-from-official-use.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

In case you don't have an electronic subscription the article begins with "In a memo addressed to state administrators across France, Prime Minister François Fillon ordered the honorific — akin to “damsel” and the equivalent of “miss” — banished from official forms and registries. The use of “mademoiselle,” he wrote, made reference “without justification nor necessity” to a woman’s “matrimonial situation,” whereas “monsieur” has long signified simply “sir.” "

It will be interesting to see how quickly the 'mademoiselle' box disappears from official forms -- and whether commercial forms will follow.

The French have ruled Mademoiselle as sexist!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/22/mademoiselle-removed-from-french-official-forms

Apparently they are going to use up the old forms before printing new ones.

Just back from Paris. It was absolutely freezing and beautiful and I hope to return when the gardens are in bloom. I always used "Bonjour" followed by "Parle vous englee?" and everyone said yes/ yes a little and the rest of the converstaion was in simple english. Everyone was gracious and polite from the bus drivers to the waiters to the supermarket cashiers to the hotel staff. Bon vovage !

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that our colleagues at Living Language really liked this question and used it for a blog story. You can check it out here: http://livinglanguage.com/blog/2012/03/01/qa-proper-french-greetings/

Hey Amy, that's pretty cool. Thanks for posting that!

In a market, if in doubt of the proper greeting just reach out and start picking through the produce. The proprietor will greet you. Works every time.