One of the reference librarians in my town used Con Tiki for an Egypt trip and she loved it. I asked if there was a lot of partying on the Egypt trip and she said there was not - there were more serious young people.

Do you know what the age group was? I am 30 & I would prefer to travel with people my own age or older.

I can call the library and ask her but the age group could vary for each tour. She doesn't look like she's 30 and hasn't been working at the library very long so I think she's not long out of school - that would put her about 26 to 28 years old, depending on when she went to grad school.

I think Con Tiki is for the 18 to 35 year olds so you would be at the upper age group.

You could see if Rick Steves has an Egypt tour. Since his tours are active you won't get a lot of 70 year olds. You probably don't want that either.

Thank you, I just looked at Rick Steves website & although the tours look good, I did not see anything that is as extensive as the 47 day Ultimate European Tour plus with Egypt. It seems like Contiki is the only tour that offers something this. Do you know of others?

Often you can combine tours with the same company. Without looking at the tour you are considering I would re-think a 47 day tour. It can get very tiring to always be on tour. And what if you get with a young party crowd? My immediate reaction is to tell you not to do this although I don't have a good reason - it's instinct.

Go to the Lonely Planet thorntree forum where there is a much younger crowd to see what their opinion is. Most people on this board are older than 30. But don't give up on us old folk - maybe we can find a way to get you what you want within your age group.

Also look at Road Scholar trips, although they are mostly for older people they have a wide variety of trips.

I just looked at the trip on the Con Tiki site. I know you're young but if you are a serious traveler/tourist then this is not for you. It's a lot of running around with 1 and 2 night stays so you won't see anything in depth except the inside of the bus.

Decide if you want to go to many places and spend lots of time getting to them or actually see the places you visit.

I appreciate your advice on this. This would be my first European trip & I want to see as much of Europe as possible even if for a short period of time in each place, the fact that the trip also included Egypt was wonderful to me. My thought is to see the countries & then go back for longer stays at other times to the places I enjoyed the most. Since I would be going alone, Contiki seemed like a good idea since most Contiki travellers travel solo. I just don't know where else I can find a trip like this?

I understand your position. BUT, have you read the itinerary? You have a few hours in London, a day in Paris, a day in Barcelona, a day in Venice, etc.

In the first 13 days you've only seen 3 major cities for 1 day each. You won't get an idea of what you want to go back to in this short time. Much of the time in these places is on your own so you need to read and decide ahead of time what you want to do during your short visit.

Many first time people dislike European cities because their time in them is too short and is spent trying to figure out where things are. They leave frustrated by the experience.

Focusing on a smaller area would be a better use of your time and money. You could do the 45 days solo and join up with short term tours during that time. If you stay in hostels you'll meet other people who are traveling solo. And many people on this board meet up in Europe for a meal and to share their trip experiences.

I've now preached enough. Whatever you decide, I hope you enjoy your trip.

I just finished speaking with the librarian. She said on the Egypt only trip the average age was late 20s and it was a good tour.

She also did another Con Tiki western Europe trip (at a different time) that she did not enjoy as much. The average age was 18 to early 20s. She did 1 week on her own but booked a tour because she didn't think she would meet up with anyone. She said that after the tour she wished she had done the whole trip solo as she met up with lots of people her age who were traveling solo and wanted people to travel with. She said she had a good time on the Europe tour but wished she had not spent the money for the tour as she had a better time during the week on her own meeting people and traveling around with them.

The tour was too fast and she didn't have enough time in each location. She also didn't realize how far apart places were and how much time she would spend on the bus.

You're probably right. Again, I appreciate your advise & I will look for another trip. Any suggestions of a tour where it's like a two week trip as an introduction to Europe? I know Contiki has a 14 day tour called European Discovery, do you know of another tour like this where it's a group my age?

Contiki tends to run young so you would likely be one of the older people on the tour. That could be a good or bad thing.

In any case - that specific tour is a dreadful itinerary.

"I want to see as much of Europe as possible even if for a short period of time in each place,"

A lot of folks think that at first.But in fact you will see next to nothing except through coach windows.

1/2 a day in London
1 day in Paris (They use the ferry so you lose a LOT of time)
More time in the Beaujolais than almost any other place - a whole 1.5 days.
1 day in Barcelona
1 day in Venice
1.5 days in Rome

and so on. This is NUTS.

we were posting at the same time. Good that you are looking elsewhere.

Maybe consider two shorter tours w/ some time on you own in between. Something Like a tour of Italy for 2 weeks, a week in Paris or London on your own, then another 2 or 3 week tour of other countries.

Thanks janisj. What suggestions do you have for me?
I am a 30 year old female, who would be travelling alone & I have never done a European Tour & I want to see as much as possible so I can go back & spend more time in the places I liked the most.

Is there a tour group you recommend?

I looked at European Discovery and it's still a lot of time on the bus. For instance, Lucerne to Paris is 6.5 hours plus stopping time so that's 1 day traveling. Florence to Lucerne is 5.5 hours, Rome to Venice is 6 hours. You also have to add time to check in and out of hotels and packing time. With a bunch of people on a bus there is waiting around time for everyone to get on and it's not unusual for some people to be late so you have to wait for them.

Did you look at the Italy only tours or the London and Paris tours? I have a very slow internet connection in my office so I couldn't look at all the Con Tiki tours. Choose a smaller area so you have more time in the cities and less on the bus. If you want to see how far places are from each other and how much bus time you'll have use:

http://en.mappy.com/
http://www.viamichelin.com/

If you do a short tour will you spend some time on your own and still go to Europe for the 45 days? You will meet people to hang with either on the tour or in hostels. I think you're nervous about going on your own but I can assure you that with proper planning you will have a good time.

I don't know of other tours for people your age. Most tours are for older people.

You're right I am nervous about going on my own. I am very outgoing & social so I know I will have no problem meeting new people but my nervousness comes from being a 30 year old female...alone...in terms of safety. It's too bad there is no tours for my age group...all seem to be older or younger...my search continues. I was hoping someone would know of the prefect tour for me.

If you want to take tours -- and the budget allows -- the higher end companies that do 'small group tours' provide a much better pace and allow you to see/do more. 'Small groups' are usually fewer than 20 or 25 and often fewer than 15. This lets them use smaller vehicles, better/more central hotels, and provide better service.

I don't have a specific company to recommend - but others may.

"I want to see as much as possible so I can go back & spend more time in the places I liked the most."

It will really help if you let loose of the 'I want to see as much as possible' frame of mind. Tours that squeeze in a LOT mean you really see very little. Much Better IMO to take a more leisurely tour and actually see/do things.

40 or 50 days on the move on a tour bus won't give you the 'feel' of anything/anyplace.

If you have never been on a group tour I totally concur with adrienne that you should seriously reconsider going on one for 47 days. That's a long time.

When I first started traveling to Europe I too went with escorted tours because I didn't have a traveling companion. I always combined escorted tours with a few days on my own before or after the tour, sometimes both. I had a great time on tours, and saw and did much more than I would have if I had traveled solo. I didn't mind that they were whirlwind trips with 1 and 2-night stays. In fact, I preferred it. But the longest time I ever spent on a tour was about 2 weeks, and by the end of it I was glad to go off on my own.

I don't know where you can find a trip comparable to the one you are contemplating, but have you considered Busabout? I have never traveled with them, so can't personally recommend. They are basically a hop on--hop off backpacker type of tour that gives you more flexibility that a traditional tour. Here's the link: http://www.busabout.com/

An old TA thread about busabout: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g186338-i17-k1153824-Contiki_vs_Busabout-London_England.html

Topdeck also offers tours for people 18- 30s: http://www.topdeck.travel/ You can ask questions on thorntree about these companies. More backpackers and budget travelers there. http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa

Cosmos also offers budget tours. One drawback of Cosmos is that their hotels tend to be in the boonies. That wasn't the case years ago when I traveled with them, but it seems to be the case now, particularly in Europe. Most of the people on the Cosmos tours were 50 and over, but there were always a few of us in their 20s and 30s. http://www.cosmos.com/Vacations/Europe/Panoramas/

I am not going to suggest you do this trip on your own because you specifically asked about a tour. However, I do suggest that rather than doing a 47-day tour you consider combining 2 or 3 shorter tours with time on your own independently to regroup.

Good luck to you, whichever company you choose.

Check out Busabout, it's semi-independant travel: http://www.busabout.com/

Or check G Adventures, they may have the kind of tour you're looking for but as for all tours, you will be rushed and most of your time will be on a bus. I did a super fast Contiki Tour in my early 20's, while it was fun, I don't remember much of places we "saw".

Oops. Didn't read @walkabout's post. Sorry!

Check out either Globus or Trafalgar web sites. For the budget version of these two groups go to Cosmos Tours for Globus or I think Trafalgar's is called Costcutter.
I do alot of tours and my first one was 5 countries in 10 days. Not something I would repeat but I have been to each county separately now.
Egypt does not usually combine with Europe tours but you could pick a shorter Europe tour that sees all of Europe and then book an Egypt trip to follow that one.
Most people on this board travel independently. I do both. I may be in the minority but I like the hours on the bus looking at the countryside go past. It can be very beautiful and if you are driving or watching a map you might miss something.
Every tour I have been on has a mix of ages. At least half are usually over 50 depending on the tour but that has never bothered me.(I am in that category now!!).
Another company I really like is AdventuresAbroad. They do modular tours so you can combine more than one.
I hope this gives you some ideas and have fun whatever you do.

I would not be concerned with safety if you use common sense and don't go off alone with strangers. Use the same rules you would use at home. Lots of young women travel solo. Please do to the Thorn Tree site and discuss your safety concerns with other young women. You'll get advice and reassurance from other women your age.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa

Actually the demographic is closer to your age here than over on Thorn Tree which is more the Contiki age group. You are 30 (practically middle aged from the Thorn Tree user POV )

Traveling solo isn't dangerous -at least in the areas most tourists would find themselves. The biggest danger is pickpocketing which seems to be worse in Spain/Italy but can be a problem anywhere. But being on a tour doesn't help w/ that. In fact large groups of tourists huddling together will attract more pick pockets than someone on their own.

walking around most European cities - even late at night -is safer than walking around most any American city.

That's not to say things can't happen - and if you are on a tour, the tour director can be of assistance if things go sideways.

Some touring interspersed w/ some independent time would be a good intro. London or Paris are EXTREMELY easy cities to manage on one's own. So maybe look for a couple of 2 week tours book ended by time in Paris and London. In those two cities there are countless walking tours and day tours out of town.

Thank you so much everyone, I appreciate all the advise! I will check out all those tour companies that I never even heard of thanks to you all. I have heard of Busaboout tours & it seems like a good idea to do things at my own leisure...but the issue with that is since I am unfamilliar with Europe I have no idea what places are good, what places to stay away from when it comes to hostels, hotels, etc...Also I dont know where anything is, so I would be lost without a tour group.

Another tour company, which is more likely to give you time to explore on your own, and will have a small group (12 or less), is Intrepid - http://www.intrepidtravel.com/. You could also look at Imaginative Traveler or Peregrine. You can mix and match their shorter tours.

The demographic on Rick Steves' tours is definitely on the senior end.

I travel to a lot of places that are unfamiliar, but I do it solo with good guidebooks. Maybe you could spend some time in a library or bookstore before settling for a tour?

"since I am unfamilliar with Europe I have no idea what places are good, what places to stay away from when it comes to hostels, hotels, etc...Also I dont know where anything is, so I would be lost without a tour group."

- I think you feel "lost" because you haven't done any prior research besides looking at different tours. It's not as hard as you think. I suggest you get a guidebook of Europe (Lonely Planet is my go-to guide) and read from front to back, including info on all the countries, guidebooks also have suggested itineraries, hostels/hotels, suggested walking tours, etc. Then perhaps that will help you decide on what countries or cities you actually want to see instead of just saying "I want to see it all".

<< Also I dont know where anything is, so I would be lost without a tour group >>

Ahhh...that's what maps are for. And guide books.

<<my nervousness comes from being a 30 year old female...alone...in terms of safety.>>

Hours and hours a day on a bus is a far bigger safety concern, frankly, than being a solo female 30-year-old traveler on the ground in Europe.

I wouldn't dismiss the idea of planning a trip on your own. Thousands and thousands of solo females do this every day. We even managed to do it back before computers and the internet existed. We used maps and guidebooks. Seriously, it's not only easy, it's fun. And you get to see what YOU want to see, not what some tour guide thinks will tickle your fancy.

You guys are right...I'm just nervous & felt that if I was on a tour, I would be safer. Are there discussion forums for solo travellers who meet in Europe perhaps? That way you can kind of get to know people that you can meet in Europe along the way.

Well, there's couchsurfing as a way to meet locals. You don't have to actually couchsurf (as in sleep in someone's house), you can meet someone just for coffee or a meal. But you'll find that if you travel solo, and stay in B&Bs and pensions rather than posh hotels, and take day tours, that you'll just naturally meet other travelers.

I just checked out couchsurfing...its looks like a great way to get to know people who may be tavelling at the same time to some of the same places. Is that the only site of it's kind or are there other similar sites?

I've been a Couchsurfer member since 2005 and it's an absolutely great way to meet people, locals and travellers. I highly suggested it. I usually end up booking myself into a hostel/hotel and just meet up with people for sightseeing, food, drinks, party, etc. If age matters to you, I'm 31 yrs old (ughh).

I'm meeting CS'ers when I'm in Spain in a couple weeks and we're all going to a musicfest

Tip: If you do decide to sign up, fill out your profile as much as you can; people who have no pictures and no descriptions usually don't get responses.

One of the best known organizations is Servas where you can be a host and/or a traveler and invite people to stay in your home or invite them for a meal or a coffee in a cafe. There are different options.

Rick Steves (not my favorite person and here I am invoking his name twice today) has quite a few organizations listed on his web site.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/ricksteveseurope/2017999705_websteves17.html

I will sign up at Couchsurfers, thank you. & ughh is right jomagpie...I'm 30. I think the reason why I wanted to do so many countries at once is because I feel like I am starting my travels late & I need to make up for lost travel time. Age matters to me to a point where I don't want to be with a bunch of drunkerds when I'm trying to take in different cultures, historic sites etc. Although I do like to have a good time...I don't want my travels to be a drunken mess as it looks like it may be if I went with a Contiki tour.

"I don't want my travels to be a drunken mess" - haha that's exactly what my Contiki tour was like. Besides that only tour, I've been travelling alone, on & off, since I was 19 (even moved to England alone at that point!). Going alone is scary at first, but it'll be fine and lots of fun.

There's also another site called Travel Buddies but I think they make you pay now.

jomagpie...if you don't mind me asking...are you a male or female? The reason why I ask is because for some reason, I think that guys would be more likely do travel alone as you did.

Female

email me at j

oops, email me at jo.magpie1@gmail.com if you have any CS questions or others...

Also, why would you think that "guys would be more likely do travel alone as you did"? I've met plenty of solo female travelers during my travels.

Now is not a good time to travel in Egypt.

Whether or not it's a good time to travel to Egypt (at least it won't be overrun with other tourists) has been discussed on the Africa board.

I just thought that males would maybe feel safer than females if they were by themselves in Europe...It was bad presumption on my part. Good for that you do it! It's encouraging! I thought about just packing through Europe on my own but everytime I mention it to people...everones like: "omg, don't go by yourself!!!" So, I get freaked out. Hence the tour group safety aspect of it.

I would not listen to people's negative comments. Just because they wouldn't do something is no reason for you to stay at home. I went on my first solo trip when I was 20 (perhaps my name is a clue - I'm female) and knew nothing. There were no internet boards to give me advice. I got lost, met people, and had fun. And learned about the things not to do while traveling (bring too much stuff!! and have a good plan/itinerary).

Are you from a small town where people don't travel or does your family not travel?

Book your trip - you will have a great time. Come back and tell us about all the wonderful experiences you've had and if you have any concerns during the trip you can find an internet cafe and post here for help.

Single country Contiki tours tend to be more your speed and age range - late 20s to early 30s - so combining two of those could be good (e.g., Italy and Egypt or similar). The large Contiki tour you referenced in the beginning is usually infested with low 20somethings and 40-odd days on a bus trip is awful. We saw some of those folks on the tail end of their trip when I was on a Contiki Italy tour and they looked tired, drawn and unwashed (we were fine, BTW).

Your best bet may be to split the difference and take a Contiki tour before going off on your own for a bit. After my Spain tour on Contiki, a bunch of the folks who had actual vacation time and no set plans rented a car and buggered off for Pamplona for the tomato festival together.

I am from Toronto, Ontario, Canada, but in the suburbs. The idea of starting with a tour & then just going off on my own seems like a great idea. That way I have the intro of Europe with a group to get comfortable & then meet others along the way for the rest of my travels. Perhaps though couchsurfing? Thanks everyone for the great advice...it is much appreciated from first hand travellers such as yourselves!

Hi there,

Nice work on getting started with planning of your first Europe trip! This board is awesome, I always get great feedback on here and on tripadvisor.

I think gapadventures.com is geared towards solo travellers, so might want to take a look. I haven't been on their tours myself, but one of my friends tried them and enjoyed the trip.

I'm planning out my first trip to Europe too, so thought I'd chime in. I started by reading "Rick Steves' Best of Europe", that I borrowed from the library. The book lists destinations (based on Rick Steves' priority) and you can add other destinations based on proximity. It has a sample itinerary for each place that touches upon the highlights.

While reading up, I also posted on here and tripadvisor and started getting feedback, which was very helpful. Based on the reading and input on here, I decided to go for Paris and the Swiss Alps for this trip, pretty excited.

Have fun planning your trip!

Hey ManalD

I'm also a 30 year old female and have travelled solo many times. I have found that planning trips my way has always been more enjoyable than tours, and it has been cheaper too! When you plan a trip yourself, you can set your own times and see what you want. You're not on someone's timetable, and you don't have to wait for someone else to show up. I've never had any problems, whether I was traveling in Asia or Europe. And I've always been able to meet people to hang out with. For example, while in Spain on the train from San Sebastian to Salamanca, I met a student going back to the university, we started talking, then when we arrived, we ended up meeting up with and having with some of her friends. It really is amazing just how friendly and hospitable Europeans are. Let me just say that here in the US, it is rare to find someone who will immediately accept you into their world. Another example, staying at hostels is not only cheaper to stay at, but it's also a great place to meet people who want to tour the area and go to restaurants/bars with. Hostels are also a great place to do laundry when much needed! As for safety, as long as you follow your instincts, you will be safe. Same rules apply for Canada/US as they do for Europe, avoid places and people that just don't look right, keep your documents safe, and make sure your purse is zipped up and secure.

Good luck with your planning. Libraries are great resources for guides - reading a bunch now for my upcoming 4 week September/October trip. It's also good to browse train/bus websites to get an idea for travel timetables, as well as website for hostels/pensions/B&Bs/hotels. Never done couchsurfing, but friends have and they all say good things about, I would like to try it out some time. I hope that some of my experiences help you out. It really is safe and easy.

I am female too, and as I indicated above, I started out by doing escorted tours combined with solo time, and then "graduated" to doing completely independent trips. 30 is not old. There are people who don't start traveling until they retire, so you are ahead of the game.

Do not listen to the naysayers. I have had people warn me about destinations ever since I took my first trip in my 20s. I never listen and do what I want. My most recent trip was to Guatemala and Honduras where friends claimed I was going to be kidnapped by guerrillas or struck down by malaria and dysentery. Ignorant nonsense. I stayed in $20/night hotels, traveled by shuttle van and local tuk-tuks, met people from all over the world and had a blast. I intend to keep traveling as long as I can put one foot in front of the other.

Any major city offers a variety of tours. In London for example, try London Walks. They are inexpensive, fun, and informative. http://www.walks.com/ I'm not a fan of hop on-hop off bus tours, but many people like them. Any orientation tour can give you an overview of a city and help you get your bearings. http://www.hopon-hopoff.com/

Some cities even offer free walking tours. In Bath, for example, try http://visitbath.co.uk/things-to-do/tours-and-sightseeing/mayor-of-bath-honorary-guides-p43001 Prague also offers a free walking tour: http://www.discover-prague.com/

Here's a Rick Steves thread on women traveling solo: http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/women_solo.htm

A link to several articles about traveling solo as a woman: http://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/travel/women/index.shtml

As others have suggested, buy or borrow at least a couple of good books on traveling in Europe. Don't rely solely on the internet. Check out tripadvisor for reviews of hotels and pictures of hotels taken by travelers. Tripadvisor also has travel forums and general information about various destinations.

Also check out Google streetview. Just go to Google, click on Maps, type in an address, click on the little Pegman, and you can "stroll" around neighborhoods and actually see tourist attractions or places you are planning to stay. http://maps.google.com/help/maps/streetview/index.html

For hostels, consider getting a membership in Hostelling International. Check http://www.hihostels.com/ and http://www.hostelworld.com/

I have been all over the world solo, every continent except Antarctica, and have never had any major mishaps. Sure, stuff happens, but if you keep your wits about you and use common sense you should be fine. Have a wonderful trip!

Thanks everyone. How much time do you guys think I will need to explore Europe? Everyone always says no matter how long you go, its never enough time & there is always so much more to see. Do you guys just take your 2 week vacation every year at work to travel? Is that even enough time? I'm just trying to figure out how to plan this. walkabout...I too would like to eventually visit every continent...every country for that matter! I have done some travel with my family growing up but travel is my passion & I feel I should have started this years ago...oh well, it's never too late!

You were planning on 47 days so why don't you take that time but see less of the continent.

I usually take my vacation time to travel although not this year because of finances. I did have 2 vacations last year so I should not feel deprived.

There is never enough time. During the planning stages I start cutting back on the places I want to visit because I don't have enough time.

I'm working on my next trip which will be one week in Barcelona. But the more I read about the city the longer I think I'll need to stay!

So, there is the two way flight cost (whatever that is, back & forth from Toronto)...& would it be safe to assume that $100 Canadian per day would be good enough for everything else (other than my flights to Europe & back)? I'm just trying to figure out the best way to budget everything.

"How much time do you guys think I will need to explore Europe?"

A life time....

You can only scratch the surface on a first trip. Assume that you will return, often.

$100 might be a bit low. Spend some time with the guidebooks figuring out where you want to stay, as that is usually the biggest expense. Of course, before you can cost accommodation and transport you need an itinerary... Be aware that the more you move, the higher your expenses. Hostels and apartments can keep food costs down.

100CAD is a bit low, especially if you'll be in cities. Budget E30 per night for a hostel - that's already about 40CAD. You'll need sightseeing, food, and transporation money as well. It also depends on what countries you go to. Central European countries and Spain and Portugal are less expensive than France and Italy and the northern countries.

I agree with thursday that the more you move around the more the trip will cost you.

I would try to budget 125CAD per day.

"So, there is the two way flight cost (whatever that is, back & forth from Toronto)" - travelling during summer months (June-August) will cost you more than travelling off- or shoulder- season (generally April through mid-June, September, and October).

Go to Chapters and grab yourself a guidebook. Knowing where you actually want to go and what you want to see will make it easier for you to figure out everything else.

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Lonely-Planet-Western-Europe-10th-Ryan-Ver-Berkmoes/9781741796797-item.html?ikwid=western+europe&ikwsec=Home

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Lets-Go-Western-Europe-Student-Harvard-Student-Agencies-Inc/9781598803143-item.html?ikwid=western+europe&ikwsec=Home

One thing - you may find it hard to get good airfares for a really long stay. Many discount tickets require a Saturday night stay AND return w/i 30 days.

Plus I personally think 47 days is too long for a very first trip. That is a long time to be on your own and you might hit sensory overload after about 3 weeks of being on the go. 3 or 4 weeks would be easier to plan and a LOT cheaper than 7 weeks. 25-30 days would be plenty for a first timer IMO.