marigross

Hi all! DH and I are seriously considering staying for extended periods either in Spain or in Italy in a few years. We would not be seeking working permits but we might not completely move. We would most likely rent and not buy.

At one point (soon!) we will talk to professionals about this but in the mean time we would like to educate ourselves and try to figure out how to make this work. Getting a car, medical insurance, setting up bank accounts, receiving US Social Security payments....

Any online resources that we can start browsing through?

StCirq

Unless at least one of you has EU citizenship, this is likely not going to happen; once your 90 days are up, you'll have to leave unless you can figure out a way to get a long-term visa (not easy).

ribeirasacra

read this lot and then think it is possible
Spain: http://spain.angloinfo.com/
Italy: http://italy.angloinfo.com/

ekscrunchy

I know it is difficult but how DOES one go about securing the necessary paperwork that would allow a stay in Italy, for example, for longer than 90 days? Surely there are many, many expats from US who own property in Italy an remain for long periods...how have they managed to surmount the restrictions? Does ownership convey any advantages over renting when it comes to a long-stay visa?

Alec

Property ownership doesn't give you a visa. Those expats have probably lived in the country long enough to get the equivalent of a green card through work (with permit) or marriage to a citizen. Or they have financial resources to set themselves up as investor or entrepreneur.
To get non-work, long-stay visa, you normally need to be of retirement age with sufficient guaranteed income (such as pensions and investments) not to need to work or become a burden on the state. No exact figure is laid down, and it often boils down to the decision of a visa officer. For example, someone may get a visa with an annual income of $50k, while another may need $100k. It helps if you can show strong existing links to the country, such as having lived there for a number of years, you speak the language fluently or have caltural ties or interest. Plus you need confirmed accommodation, private medical insurance and sometimes police clearance and a medical. Some consulates have on their website details of longstay visa and how to apply. You normally need to apply to a consulate that covers your State, and not all consulates are alike in how they assess visa applications. So someone may find success with NY consulate, while another with very similar scenario gets turn down by the consulate in Chicago, for example.
All in all it's difficult and time-consuming process with uncertain outcome, but with perseverance and a bit of luck, most people seem to succeed eventually.

StCirq

<< Does ownership convey any advantages over renting when it comes to a long-stay visa?>>

Nope, except perhaps for Spain where I believe thee gov't recently agreed to grant citizenship to foreigners who invest a certain amount (quite a bit) of money in buying property there. Hungary now grants citizenship to people who agree to buy X euros worth of Hungarian bonds.

I'll have to find links to those stories...they were both posted here fairly recently.

marigross

Thanks for the replies!

Additional info: DH is Swiss, he has also a US passport. I'm an American citizen (Puertorrican, Spanish is my first language) and my Swiss citizenship is in the works. DH is retired, I'm still working but will quit in the next two years or so. I think we can prove that we do not need an income. We might consider buying a small apartment if it would make things easier, but it might not be our initial choice.

So many people make this happen that there must be a (legal) way!

Alec

I have read Spain gives residency to foreigners buying a property worth at least 160,000 euro. You must live there, not rent out, and in addition you need overseas income of 30,000 - 50,000 euro/year.

Alec

Your Swiss husband can live in EU (including Spain and Italy) as a self-sufficient person (easy to prove) and you can apply for residence permit as spouse.

goldenautumn

marigross,

Online you will get more misinformation that you would ever imagine is possible. People get excited and want to talk about their plans, so it is really tempting to come on to the internet to "share," but you really have no idea who is talking back to you. People who know nothing try to sound like they know everything.

As pointed out above, there are loads and loads and loads of non-Europeans legally living in Europe who are not E.U. citizens and hold foreign passports. The majority of them do not own property in Europe either. Some work, some are retired, all pay taxes, none are left to die on the sidewalks if they need medical help.

Even reading a book would be better than asking on the internet, although you will need to subsequently check with professionals to make sure that information is up to date.

Good luck!

goldenautumn

I just want to clarify I was not talking about Alec.

goldenautumn

marigross,

You might want to read this book, Making Limonata

"Description: Making Limonata is the true story of a couple who moved to Italy after losing everything in Hurricane Katrina in 2005. After settling with various insurance carriers, they decided not to buy another house and fill it with replacement belongings. Instead they moved to Italy for a year. This story tells of their experiences and learning to live as foreigners.

http://dawhois.com/site/makinglimonata.com.html

One of the reasons I recommend that you read it is because the woman relates how she read online so many people insisting it was so difficult to do this, she dreaded the whole process of getting residency. But she discovered when she went to her local consulate (somewhere in the US South) that it wasn't difficult, and didn't take much longer than any government situation does -- and she wasn't married to anyone with the holder of a European passport.

No two situations are the same. People on Fodor's have actually been informed over and over that the information they cling to that this is an impossible dream is false. There was a Fodor's poster who quit her job and sold what she owned and moved to a foreign country without really speaking the language and is still alive and happy and blogs about it and people act is if this never happened. Nobody adjusts their thinking in light of facts!

It's not easy to do anything in life, yes? Go to the Hawaii board and say you have a dream of living in Hawaii, and the first thing people on Fodor's will tell you is: "Whoa, there, girlie! Don't think you can just pack up and move! Not as simple as people think." Negative Nancy rides again. If you've ever learned a new job, bought a house, renovated a kitchen, taking care of an elderly person, you know some things are hard, yes? This will have hard moments. No guarantees it will work out, but what does come with guarantees? Besides, if it doesn't work out, it will be less painful than many. many other things in life that don't work out, so I have no idea why people on Fodor's are so persuaded they know how other people's lives will turn out, but I would look elsewhere for advice.

ribeirasacra

Buy a property in Spain to gain residency is no done deal. It may never happen.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,5524568.story

cruiseluv

Hola Mari,

No advice here , just to say I wish I were in your shoes, that would be my dream! Love the advice you got from Goldenautumn, though. Where there's a will there's a way.

marigross

If it were easy we would be there already, LOL.

Thanks for the great replies.

Most likely for tax reasons we will keep residency in the US so what we think is that we will not do a full relocation but we certainly want to spend more than the three continuous months that we would be legally entitled to.

The thing is we would like to rent a place where we like it and could keep our stuff. We are not than keen on buying as the housing market in Spain is quite far from settled.

According to the Social Security website you have to at least spend a continous month in the US every year in order to qualify for payments. I find it hard to belive that all those expats out in the far corners of the world can afford to do this.

ribeirasacra

You may keep your residency in the US. But that will not affect the local tax issues. In Spain no matter where you pay taxes in the world they consider you a tax residence after 120 days. I would suggest you read the links I gave. It is never impossible just dam difficult.

thursdaysd

The IRS doesn't care about your residency. It will tax you on world wide income no matter where you are living.

thursdaysd

Also see:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html#a0=1

As you are both US citizens, you do not have to maintain residency in the US to receive Social Security.

Cathinjoetown

Caveat: My husband holds dual UK/US citizenship, which made it easy to move to France with the right to live and work here. We are retired.

We started collecting SS at 62 with absolutely no US annual residency required. Our checks are deposited monthly, directly to our French checking account with a favorable bank to bank rate of exchange and no transfer fees.

The SS office at the US Embassy in Paris handled it all via email. They were great, hope they don't get downsized.

We are required to file US tax returns and are subject to French income tax as well on worldwide income.
Because there is a tax treaty between the countries, we do not feel we are unfairly taxed. Double the paperwork but not double the tax.

It is fine if you want to maintain US residency but Spain or Italy will determine what constitutes residency
in their countries and what taxes you may be liable for as a resident.

Your two biggest hurdles are as you know residency after 90 days and health insurance coverage. After you nail those two, the rest is, relatively speaking, a piece of cake. We had decent low cost retiree insurance through our US employer until we could enter the French system.

Good luck, wish I could help more but each country has different requirements. I have US friends here who obtained long stay residency based on proof of ability to support themselves (pensions, SS, investment income), reasonable good health (no TB), heath insurance and no criminal record. The visa had to be re-newed annually. These folks do not have EU passports. But, that's France and the requirements change.

kybourbon

>>>According to the Social Security website you have to at least spend a continous month in the US every year in order to qualify for payments.<<<

I think you've misunderstood something.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/intern...untrylist1.htm