texasbookworm

(I know it's over 5 months until we leave, but ....)
If anyone has some specific cautions/suggestions/you-need-to-know-this tidbits about our itinerary listed below, I’d love to hear. “We” are DH, 21-yr-old DD, and myself; we will be traveling from south Texas to London in late July and staying 13 nights, 4 in London and then renting a car. We have been to England before (DD and I in 2005, DH and I in 2008) and so are revisiting some spots. This trip is an early graduation present (May 2011) to DD who is double majoring in English and history, so her interests drove much of my planning.

Our tickets are secured (AA FF miles—yea!), our rooms reserved (11 nights in B&B’s, 2 in hotels), and car reserved. I bought the Great Britain Heritage Pass which might not end up saving us much, but at least we should save queue-time and break even. We’ll load up some Oyster Cards upon arrival at LHR.

This is NOT a vacation where we kick back and relax, but we don’t want to over-plan too much. DH has driven in Great Britain before and so we are using a car, but I tried to keep the driving distances down (and balanced between long and short days). I know that unexpected traffic issues crop up and I know we’re traveling in some peak tourist times. We MIGHT be back some day, but we wanted to take DD to as many places as we reasonably could, so we aren’t spending as long in any one place outside of London as I’d like, but we are getting to go to our top destinations: DH—Hadrian’s Wall; me—Wales and York; and DD—Oxford again and Dover.

We are early risers, picture-takers, and good walkers. We’ll probably be content to do “nothing” after dinner except rest and download pictures! This trip is not about food—we’ll get breakfast at our lodging, probably pack small snack for lunch, and most likely look for pub grub for dinner (DD has some gluten issues so need to always find salads and veggies for her).

The ABC’s of this trip (our main foci) are Ancient towns and walls, Bed-and-Breakfasts and Book-connections, and Cathedrals and Castles. I spent hours doing my “homework” to plan itineraries and book rooms; our dates and days are pretty locked, but what we do each one can still be adjusted.

SO—having said all that, if you’re still with me, here’s my current thinking:

Thursday-Friday—Travel day
Leave 5:30 pm; arrive LHR 12:25
Either Tube or Justairports to B&B on Tenniel Close (Bayswater)
After check in and showers and rest--just walk around and get over jet lag
DD and I want to go to Hatchard’s and a couple Oscar Wilde haunts on St. James
Whiteley’s is 5 minutes from rooms
Find groceries for snacks/lunch

Saturday—London
(This day’s scheduled order could actually be inverted pretty easily, especially if weather was a factor)
Short self-designed “walking tour” past King’s College (possible grad school?), Johnson’s
House and the Old Bailey
St. Paul’s—to climb to top—WITH a camera (DD did this but no camera, DH and I didn’t climb)
Walk across Millennium Bridge for pics
Go into the Tate for a BRIEF look
South Bank, including stops outside of or in the Globe (been there) and Southwark Cathedral
Borough Market
George Inn
Dinner somewhere unless we’re full of Borough Market nibbles and then back to rooms

Sunday—London
British Museum
Then walk up to British Library (open til 5)
Then to Kings Cross for DD’s Harry Potter silliness!
Dinner somewhere and ??--nothing major

Monday--London
Westminster Abbey when it opens
(If we need any more “icon” pictures of anything, this might be the day we do that first)
Walk across Westminster Bridge to Imperial War Museum
Dinner and get ready to leave early the next day

Tuesday—to Oxford (my 3rd trip, having gone with both DD and DH but glad to re-see anything!)
JustAirports to LHR to pick up car
Drive to Oxford; leave car in B&B on London Road
Get bus into town
A self-designed walking tour of Oxford that includes going in Magdalen College, MAYBE
the Botanical Gardens, a walk past several Tolkien/GMHopkins/Dodgson/etc.,
eventually to The Eagle and the Child for dinner (early or not)
Bus back to Pickwick’s House B&B

Wednesday—to Shrewsbury
Drive to Wolvercote Cemetery for Tolkiens’ graves
Drive to Black Bourton (got a distant relative, novelist Maria Edgeworth, born there)
Drive to Shrewsbury, park at B&B
Walk around town, first to Abbey (Cadfael!) and around town
Anton Guesthouse B&B

Thursday—to Conwy
Perhaps drive to Dolwyddelan castle (Llewellyn’s birthplace—we all read Penman)
On to Conwy—park at B&B
See castle and city walls
IF we get that done before dinner, might drive over to Llandudno
IF we meandered through the mountains more slowly and only got to see the castle, we’ll eat in
Conwy and see walls after dinner
Castlebank Hotel B&B

Friday—to Carlisle (ok, this day is probably over ambitious but I can dream can’t I?! Originally this was just a “get to Carlisle” day, but I decided we need to at least drive through the Lake District)
Drive through the Lake District, stopping here and there to take pics
(I’d love to take sidetrips to see Wordsworth sites and Potter sites and Ransom sites, all of
which I researched and plotted out, but probably no time—this trip!)
Stop at Castlerigg Stones (we’ve all 3 been to Stonehenge and DD really wanted to go back
but it didn’t fit, so this is a substitute!)
On to Carlisle, where if time we’ll see Castle first thing and also explore city walls
Staying at EastView B&B

Saturday—Hadrian’s Wall
IF we got to see the Castle yesterday, we’ll go directly to the Wall area
IF we didn’t, we’ll have a late start and go to Castle first thing and then head out
The GBH pass gets us into several spots along the wall; we’ll just go here and there,
definitely to Housestead’s
We’re staying in Durham; IF we get early start and see all we want along the wall, we’ll head
to the Cathedral, which is open late, and then go on to B&B, which is a bit on the outskirts
IF we are later in the day, we’ll have to skip the Cathedral this time
Moor’s End B&B

Sunday—York
Drive to York, find B&B to leave car
Explore York—Minster, Walls, Clifford’s Tower
Number 34 B&B

Monday—Lincoln and ?? (another iffy/ambitious day—and the longest drive)
Drive to Lincoln, see castle and cathedral
(Would love to spend a little time in Cambridge but the consensus seems to be that it is very
hard to drive into and park and see much very easily or quickly, so may have to skip it)
Drive to Dartford—have “free” room in Hilton there

Tuesday—Dover
(We’d love to stop by Canterbury Cathedral, at least for an hour, but I don’t know if that’s
feasible and still get to Dover by about 1)
Dover Castle (DH and I went before but no time for Tunnels so taking DD back)
White Cliffs, using parking lot/access at National Trust entrance
Maison Dieu B&B

Wednesday—last day! And on to hotel near LHR
Drive through Rye
And on to Battle
And on to Bodiam Castle
And on to LHR area—have to turn in car and then have room at Jury’s Inn

Thursday—Travel day
cab from hotel to terminal---AA counter opens at 5:45 so will try to be there then for 7:55
flight; arriving home at 6:30 pm

I am a firm believer that trips and vacations should fit the individuals and that what we desire and enjoy are not what many or even any one else would. But I welcome comments; I am the author of our trip, and therefore ultimately responsible, and I can take your suggestions or not, but I do want to hear (especially any cautions about current conditions on roads or sites that I missed or am unaware of).

hopingtotravel

I enjoyed Castlerigg Stones because although they were shorter than Stonehenge, one could walk among them and the 'distant' views were phenomenal.

We also enjoyed Bodiam Castle. We learned while we were there, because it was one of the few moated castles remaining, school students get to tour it a lot.

Have fun.

janisj

You have done a huge amount of planning and have pre-empted many responses since it looks like most things are non-negotiable and already booked.

But my goodness, that is one VERY ambitious plan. You will be spending a LOT of motorway time and little time on country/scenic roads.

One night stand after one night stand w/ miles of driving in between.

I wish you luck.

texasbookworm

Thanks, janisj; I was hoping you'd give your assessment. I do know we'll probably have to skip some things; enjoying the journey may get sacrificed to reaching the goals (i.e., the nightly destination) this trip. But it was those points of the polygram of desired destinations(London, Wales, Hadrian's Wall, York, Dover) that drove my planning. What we get to see and do between them may be much less than I hope, but our goal each day will be to arrive in the next town/city by mid-afternoon at the latest (except the York day).Perhaps we'll be blessed with great weather and little traffic and no confusion on the roundabouts and--we'll see!

scotlib

Hi texasbookworm,

I see you're going late July and quite an itinerary already, but some suggestions that you can consider, or anyone else peeking in on the thread

Flying Legends .. probably before your trip .. July 10-11 .. http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/server/show/conEvent.3151 .. I attended last year and had a blast! WW2 aircraft flying over a WW2 air base, 3 hours of choreographed flying, an air show extraordinaire! Duxford is not far from Cambridge, so if you're "castled out" by the time going by, it's just a great museum to visit anytime.

Carlisle .. I visited the Tullie House Museum and enjoyed its exhibits, including a nice one about Hadrian's Wall (you can practice shoot model onagers, one-armed stone throwers).

Driving along the Wall, a bit west of Housesteads--the Roman fort museum--is a small car park across from a visitor's center, from where you can walk up Peels Crags and east toward Housesteads, and you'd pass by the Robin Hood tree along the way. I took a day tour from Edinburgh down to the Wall and the driver told me it'd just be a walk up "a wee steep bit." The wee bit is still a favorite memory (I did make it up!).

York .. National Railway Museum, http://www.nrm.org.uk/ .. lots of fun and great entry price (free).

Have fun!

janisj

Can I make a suggestion to maybe simplify/ease things just a bit?

It would mean skipping Bodiam and Battle. Both are fine -- especially Bodiam but the days after York ate just too much of a much

You could give up the car in York on Monday morning and take the train to London. Stay Monday, Tues, Wed nights back in London. Dover is a very easy day trip from London by train. MUCH easier than driving York > Lincoln > Dartford > Dover > LHR in three days. (I personally wouldn't stay in Dartford even for free).

This would take some of the constant driving pressure off your DH, would be a much more relaxed pace, and give everyone some recovery time for the previous one-nighters.

Not only would this be more relaxed - it would also get you out of staying at Dartford and LHR

OR - you could stay an extra night in York (HIGHLY recommended) and take the train to London on Tues morning. You could take the day trip to Dover on Wed.

texasbookworm

Thanks jj as always--something to consider.

DH and I took a train from London to Dover last time--wonderful day. But we were hoping to cram a peek at Canterbury in this time AND have a car to drive to parking lots at the Castle and the Cliffs and avoid the LONG slogs up and down the hills there! (Canterbury may not fit, but not having to walk so much in Dover is a plus). Rooms in London would most likely be much more than we're paying for one room in Dover and the train would cost more than the car. Dartford really is just a room--hotel looks fine and we won't be spending any time in the "area," just in the room. And in London we'd still want to be at LHR hotel for the last night since our flight is so early and we need to be at the AA counter at 5:45. Can't skip Dover (for DD) and don't really need to spend any more time in London this trip (can't get tired of it of course, but just rather do other places).


So--while it ends up that I'm just justifying my reasoning, I will consider--yours is a logical and feasible alternative.

Cholmondley_Warner

the Old Bailey>>>>

some things about the Bailey (where I spend a fair bit of time):

Firstly, the really good bits are off limits to the public. No exceptions.

Secondly a lot of people who go there get caught out by the strict no mobile phones rule. They will not let you in with a mobile and there is nowhere to store them (well there’s a newsagents nearby that will look after them – but he needs to know you).

Also I don’t know what you’re expecting, but most trials are deathly dull. Even murders (the accused ALWAYS did it).

So in short it’s a working courthouse with some very grand architecture you can’t see. So don’t go out your way.

texasbookworm

Howdy from Texas CW--I was hoping you too might comment.

The Old Bailey was just going to be a "been there, walked by" sort of thing--because of loving Rumpole and Jaggers! It's pretty much on the way between Johnson's House (also a walk-by) and St. Paul's which is our real destination that morning.

Thanks again for wading through my post--A

jamikins

I do agree with janisj that this is really ambitious. Especially in July when the roads may be busier. You really are going all around the country. You may end up spending ALOT of time in your car on boring autoroutes, just to jump out take a pic, and get back in your car. Driving always takes SO much longer here than in North America. I dont think you will be able to see (other than maybe grab a pic) many of your sites.

In saying that, it is your trip, and perhaps thats what you like. I prefer to have a couple bases.

I would maybe do something like this:

Fri - London
Sat - London
Sun - London
Mon - London
Tues - Oxford
Thurs - Shrewsbury (do not underestimate the amount of time it takes to get through Birmingham!!! This could take over an hour or more due to traffic on the M roads!)
Fri - I would skip Wales and head straight to the Lake District
Sat - Lake District (MUCH prettier than Carlisle which is a working town)
Sun - Lake District (day trip to Hadrians Wall)
Mon - Drive to York through the Dales
Tues - York
Wed - drive back to London
Thurs - Travel home

Now that I have put that together I think it will be very difficult to do more. Perhaps you might want to skip Oxford and head straight up to the Lake District and do that, Hadrians Wall, York and the SW coast, or drop the SW coast and do what I suggest above.

Each time you change locations you will lose more time than you think. Breakfasts at B&B's likely wont start till 7:30 - 8ish, by the time you eat and then check out you will be on the road for 9-9:30ish - driving takes longer than you think, especially if you are stopping to see stuff. By the time you get to your destination you wont have a lot of time to look around (especially if you are relying on buses, you may have to wait for them as well). So then you will want to do that the next morning before you go, or you will miss it and just hit the road again to repeat pattern above.

I would want to go slower and take things in and experience them. Enjoy the breakfasts, go to pubs and relax, there are tonnes of monastic ruins in Yorkshire, the Lakes are gorgeous, York is amazing.

Good luck with your planning!

texasbookworm

Thanks--
Would it make sense to drive A442/A458 from M5 at Worcester on to Shrewsbury?--Google maps (which I only use as a ballpark figure--I know how wrong they can be) says this is a few miles shorter and the same time as going via M5 and M54 which would put us going around B'ham. I know the M road ways are theoretically faster than the A's, but I do hear ya about congestion around major city. (And can't skip Oxford and Dover which were the top 2 destinations on DD's list and it's supposed to be her gift!)

jamikins

I'll let someone more familiar with B'ham pitch in about the roads...I just know it took FOREVER the two times I've driven it.

Some options - do Oxford as a day trip from London and then head right out to the Lakes...or skip part of the North?

I dont mean this to sound harsh, I am really trying to help, but just because they are top 2 destinations doesnt mean they fit in the same trip. It would be like saying I want to visit Western USA and see Disneyland, Grand Canyon, San Francisco, Oregon Coast and Seattle in 7 days - including sites along the way. Sure you could do it - but would you see anything other than the hsy?

jamikins

Sorry I meant hwy, not hsy! I really cant type and spell!

texasbookworm

I only started this topic when my skin got thick enough to take on any and all comments! So I don't take it as harsh. It is HARD to accomodate the wishes of the 3 of us (even though they overlap a lot) with the time constraints we had with the budget (ha!) constraints. I'm listening to all of you, and while stuff is all booked, the only thing that's not refundable/cancellable is the deposit on the B&B in London and I'm definitely definite about those days (there may be a couple B&B's who might not refund a small deposit but it was small).

Cholmondley_Warner

Who's Jaggers?

If you want to see the reality of Rumpole etc go in the Viaduct tavern opposite. It's where everyone mingles,; lawyers, police, defendants families etc.

If you're in there when someone gets off (very rare these days) it is a party to remember.

There's a modern pub opposite called the Magpie and Stump where people used to go to watch the public executions (which were held outside the Bailey's front door when it was Newgate Prison).

If you like Rumpole you'll almost certainly like the Inns of Court and in Inner Temple there is indeed a chambers that contains Horace Rumpole, Soapy Sam QC etc (it's where it's filmed and they left the props behind and the real life chambers kept them).

Iowa_Redhead

Using google maps, it shows that it only takes a bit over an hour to get from Dartford to Canterbury. Add extra time for inaccuracies, and call it likely 2 hours tops. If that's accurate I don't see why you couldn't stop at Canterbury.

The Cathedral opens at 9, the crypt at 10. If you left Dartford by 8am (personally I'd leave to get to the Cathedral around 9), that would put you into Canterbury between 9:15 and 10 depending on how long the drive actually is. Wander the Cathedral until 11:30 or so. Grab lunch quick and head to Dover.

Per google maps, that's about a 30 minute drive. The train takes that long, so I bet it's a bit longer than 30 minutes to drive it. Dover is open until 6pm in July and August so you'll have quite a bit of time there and sunset isn't until around 9pm. That should give you plenty of time at Dover and might allow you to spend more time at Canterbury and get to Dover a bit later.


It's a bit of an earlier start than most people would want on vacation, but I think it's entirely doable depending on drive times. Ask someone else for more accurate drive times than what Google provides! Depending on drive times, you could easily have a nicer lunch than just a grab and go sort. I do remember that there was a Cornish Pasty shop in Canterbury which makes a very filling lunch pretty quickly. Otherwise grab something from the grocery store there (I'm pretty sure I remember a M&S pretty close to the Cathedral) and have a picnic.

Personally, I really liked Canterbury Cathedral and was very glad I went. If you had time, the tour was fun. You might be tired by this point of your trip but I think the Cathedral is definitely worth an early'ish morning.

flanneruk

"Tues - Oxford
Thurs - Shrewsbury (do not underestimate the amount of time it takes to get through Birmingham"

Don't underestimate the sheer folly of going from Oxford to Shrewsbury through Birmingham.

The sensible way is M40, M42 north, M6 Toll to junction T8, then the A462 west to the M54. Divert off the M54, BTW, for Boscobel: not often enough visited, and it's the wrong oak these days - but the Charles story is still the best known anecdote in our (and, really, your) history.

A slower, but prettier, alternative is the A44 to Leominster, then the A49 north. The A442 variant isn't as nice, unless you want to visit Worcester.

jamikins

Thanks flanner - I've never driven to Shrewsbury, but I have driven through B'ham twice and it took forever!

TravelStory

Being a Brit, I can tell you that with this itinerary you will be in the car a fair bit. Our motorways are tedious and busy...try to cut your trip down a bit.

Mucky

Two things from me.
1. Travelling by road is always a lot slower than you think, you may want to allow more road time.
2. Small but very important point to remember. I am sure you know already but us Welsh get very upset when Americans in particular give the impression that Wales may be part of England. Conwy is in Wales and Wales is Not in England.

Enjoy

Muck