LizMuss

Hi Everyone,
I am bound and determined to talk my 80 yr old mother into a Christmas Market trip around Thanksgiving this year. We both are nuts over the German Christmas aesthetic. There are a couple of considerations for her with travel, and I would love some input and ideas.
Considerations:
1. Best for her that we stay where we fly in. I don't want to drive (she'll be nervous entire time) and I don't want her to have to deal with luggage on train.
2. She doesn't manage hills as well as flat terrain. (Same can be said for me, actually- but for her it's an impediment, for me, good for me ultimately!) It is unbelievable how difficult it is to google and figure out is certain cities are hilly.
3. I'd like our 'hub' location to be in proximity to day trips by train to other markets/ towns. Realistically, within 2 hours, which would make for shorter days in deference to not wearing her out.
4. Our base doesn't have to be Germany. She has an interest, overall (not necessarily for this trip) on Eastern European capitals. Trouble I see is either hills or that they're fairly far apart from one another. But we're open to Netherlands, Austria, Hungary, Slovenia, etc.
She is really phenomenal for her age- this isn't a situation where she is 'not able' so much as 'knows her limitations.'

I have come up with the following ideas, would love input or to have some additional ones. 1. Berlin would give us proximity to Leipzig, Potsdam, Hamburg, Dresden. 2. Brussels would give access to Cologne, Aachen, Lille, Valkenburg, Ghent, Bruges. Some of these may be beyond her 'long day' bandwidth... (i have heard Brussels is boring and hilly- can anyone confirm or deny?) 3. Cologne would give access to Dortmund, Valkenburg, Aachen, Liege, Brussels and many others.

Thanks in advance for your input! Liz

lavandula

Had you considered flying into Düsseldorf and making that your base? Düsseldorf has an amazing, long, long market (all on the flat, but very crowded) and a lively evening scene, and then you would have good access to Cologne, Münster and Aachen. The market in Aachen is on a gentle slope, but it's well worth seeing (a specialty is Aachener Printen), and I can't really say about Cologne, except that I know it has 7 markets, but I don't know where they are located. Cologne Cathedral however is an amazing backdrop and worth a visit for that alone. You have pretty much everywhere else in the Ruhrgebiet that you can visit within 2 hrs.

Berlin is very spread out - lots of walking between U-Bahn stations. I don't think it is really as close to Hamburg and other destinations you mention as it looks on the map. But there would be numerous markets in Berlin alone that might keep you going for a while, and Potsdam might be interesting. I don't find Brussels boring (my opinion) but there are some quite considerable slopes and steps in that city, and would reject it for that reason.

Hope you find a base you like; my vote is for the Ruhrgebiet!

Lavandula

greg

>>> Christmas Market trip around Thanksgiving this year.

Triple check the dates of market before buying the airfare. The Advent is the traditional starting dates. That is December 3rd in 2017. If the market follows Advent, there is one week gap between (US) Thanksgiving the the market. More commercial markets would open earlier than the "Advent."

>>> Berlin would give us proximity to Leipzig, Potsdam, Hamburg, Dresden.

I did not care for the Berlin markets. Felt too business like. Dresden is my favorite. Family oriented and intimate. I liked the Leipzig one also. I have visited perhaps about 22 Christmas markets, with most recent one in 2016. I think this is still a German thing. I liked the German markets especially those in the former East Germany. The hub concept done during the day diminishes the experience. The traditional markets are truly magical at night. Dresden, Strasbourg, Chinese Tower market in Munich, are just a few. Close by ones like Leipzig from Dresden can be visited at night.

Look at airfares carefully. From where I live, any itinerary including a German city skyrocketed the cost. So I ended up flying into Paris, visited the Strasbourg market, visited several German markets, then flew to Copenhagen, visited the market there can flew home. Even with train ticket from Paris to Frankfurt, then Frankfurt to Copenhagen flight, the overall cost was less than if I have flown into Germany. Crazy airfare game.

marvelousmouse

Dresden was my favorite for stall decorations. Also, great glass both there and Erfurt. If you get a chance, Erfurt cathedral is really amazing. I wanted to go to Leipzig but unfortunately had to choose between it and Erfurt. She may enjoy the old Green Vault (basically the Dresden rulers' treasury- jewels, ivory, porcelain, etc.$

Nuremberg was my favorite for the aesthetic (high quality crafts). And food. It's massive and massively popular but deservedly so. The crafts are so neat. No junk.

Munich I didn't much care for EXCEPT the medieval market. It had amazing gluhwein (flaming gluhwein). Dresden also had a neat medieval market.

Regensburg for atmosphere. A seriously pretty Market town. Not a fantastic market but some glass ornaments that I didn't see elsewhere.

You could certainly do bases but I would move around to the different markets/towns. They are all so pretty at night and after a few gluhweins you don't really want to get back on the train. I did 10 days of markets. One day trip. Really preferred it when I could just stumble home instead of being worried about catching a train with the crowds. I though my I'd get sick of it, but if I do it again, I'll probably do 5 locations, 3 nights each.

Trains are very easy but take energy. So that's why I would say spend 2 nights here and there. Stay in the center of the towns, steps away from the markets. The old inns are part of the experience certainly. The one I stayed at in Rothenburg was still family run after sever hundred years and had a lot of charm. One of my best memories of the trip!

No real hills in above except Erfurt cathedral (well worth the climb) and Rothenburg which I honestly wouldn't suggest anyway. Rothenburg is super cute but the market itself didn't really impress me- still, probably worth going to if she would like the medieval town experience (it's overly popular and cutesy, but pretty magical at night nonetheless.) also has a spectacular Christmas store and if you like shopping it's probably a can't miss.

marvelousmouse

And yes, airfares are weird. I flew into Munich- did kind of a circle in Germany- took train out of Germany to fly out because it was super expensive to fly out of Germany so close to Christmas.

LizMuss

So many good suggestions and so much to consider! Thank you all.

Interesting re airfare/ Germany- I did see that Brussels was much less expensive than Cologne for prices.

If I had my druthers, I would move about between towns/ hotels in order to see the markets at night. I'm not sure she'd be up for staying until 7/8 pm every evening, then taking train back to base camp. I might could twist her arm into 1 or 2 such days if I was lucky.

I think she would love Dresden for the jewelry and markets and smaller feel. And she's a classical musician so Leipzig is a must. But I am dubious about car rental upon landing, say, in Berlin. Between her nerves and my jetlag could be a bad mix. And then there's the luggage on the train issue. This may be a long shot, but if any one knows of a service that assists with luggage from car to train and off again, that could be a way around it. Or, car service from Berlin to Dresden.

Thereafter I would feel un jetlagged enough to brave her nerves and drive to a second location- either Cologne or Düsseldorf as next base or Nuremberg/ Rothenburg. Are Rothenburg or Nuremberg hilly? (I do think due to hills that Brussels won't be a good option for her.) If she could handle my dad driving during a torrential downpour from Scotland to England, she can handle a few hours of my driving in Germany. And the bus may also be an option. At least the luggage goes underneath and you're not dragging it down a narrow aisle.

I have also seen some coach tours- something I have been loathe to pursue as I don't like being managed when I travel. (She, on the other hand, does!) It may be worth exploring a 3-4 coach tour to transport us to some different locations and avoid train on luggage, then for the other 4-5 nights base out of a large city with access to day trips.

I did notice that of the market dates announced so far, the only ones that begin as early as November 27 are in the major cities. Something else to consider pending what dates we hone in on. I wish they'd go ahead and post all the others.....

Thanks again everyone! Too many markets, too little time, too many considerations!

marvelousmouse

I'm not sure why you would need a car? All of the central train stations are fairly easy walks (or easy bus/streetcar rides) to the markets. I wouldn't drive. Parking near the markets would be a pita. for one thing, old city centers are often car free. That means tour buses aren't driving up to those markets anyway. So you would not be doing less walking. You can reach Leipzig and Dresden easily on train. I did. I would not have enjoyed driving at all.

Luggage: I would pack one wheeled suitcase for the two of you. You handle it- all she would need to handle is herself. There is luggage storage at compartment doors. Usually no need to drag down aisle. You only take stuff down the aisle that you absolutely cannot afford to lose (electronics, purses) unless your carryon is really small and you want to put it overhead.

Nuremberg train station to market is flat. Market area is flat. If you want to see the castle, that's on a hill (castles on hills in general for defense purposes).

Rothenburg is hilly. More incline than steep. But Rothenburg is also sort of difficult because of the surface- the cobbles. Not really a modern sidewalk. Look at pictures. So the hills feel steeper than they really are, partly because the roads are also narrow but also because if you're dragging a wheeled bag, there's more resistance.

I don't know how they work from personal experience. But I talked to several people who did a Christmas market cruise. No luggage transfer except at beginning and end. Older folks. They said it was really relaxing and scenic.

Such as:

https://www.amawaterways.com/destina...-on-the-danube

Expensive, but probably NOT more expensive than diy in your case once you price out the kind of trip that will work for your mom. And it would be a great deal more scenic than a bus tour.

denisea

Used to be German....just a different idea to consider.....Strasbourg would make a great base to visit the small towns in Alsace. The markets in Strasbourg are wonderful.

lavandula

Deutsche Bahn does have a luggage service - https://www.bahn.de/p/view/service/b...p-gepaeck_LZ01

Unfortunately it's only on their German website. It uses a domestic parcel transport service but could possibly be difficult to set up if you come from abroad, which is probably why they don't offer it on their international site. Use Google Translate to have a look at the relevant pages anyway.

Does your mother use a walking aid (i.e. a stick)? Just a thought - if she needs it, European roads and pavements in many cities are cobbled, not just Rothenburg (yes, even Brussels has cobbled streets). A hiking stick might be a handy asset in some places (and not redolent of 'old person' the way a walking stick might be).

Lavandula

swandav2000

Hi All,

Just a note about that German luggage service, which I've used many times, both to Switzerland and within Germany.

It takes 2 working days, so it's not usually a viable option for tourists who normally move around more than that. In addition, you need to book it to/from an address, so you would have to enlist the help of your hosts in order to use their address and perhaps also to wait for pick-up/delivery.

It's a useful service for those of us who live in Germany -- just pack stuff up early, then have the Hermes guy pick it up from home. When you get to your destination, it is waiting for you there.

But for tourists who tend to stay in a place for 3 or 4 nights only, I don't think it's all that helpful.

Have fun!

s

Huggy

Have to second Marvelous recommendation of the cruise option. Having been to several Christmas markets in Austria and Germany, they are wonderful. I drove to each but it took time away from each market. Why not maximize your time by spending a full day at each? You may need to walk a bit from the dock to the market location but you would probably be required to do the same if you were to drive or take the train.

You get high marks in doing this with your mother. Just be sure to have an extra suitcase to bring home those treasures. They provide wonderful memories even after 20 years of our various adventures.

gomiki

Liz, your comment about the markets at night "staying until 7/8", it's dark much earlier than that so you would be able to see some at night.

It sounds like a wonderful trip with your mom.

lilla

I love Christmas Markets and have been visiting them for the past ten years. I'm just a little younger than your mother and have found the river cruises the way to go. It's so nice to unpack just once, wake up in a new town most days, never have to worry about where we would eat, and have included city tours in most places. We would usually spend each afternoon at the markets.

And it gets dark around four in the afternoon, so you have the Christmas lights, mulled wine, and wurst at the markets.

Scootoir

Another belated vote for a Christmas market cruise. DH and I did this last year leaving right after Thanksgiving. There is still walking involved and a bit of busing but you only unpack once. After experiencing both I prefer Viking over AmaWaterways. The cabin seemed more spacious, did not have a weird window looking in on the toilet from the cabin, and the bed was much more comfortable. Also offered a more casual dining option for breakfast and lunch. I was going to link to the Rhine cruise we took but it is no longer offered. They have a Rhine cruise but it's just a little different. They also offer one called "Christmas in Germany". There are usually some options to add if you like and you can always skip a tour if it is not to your liking.