I've not been to St. Denis so can't offer a direct comparison, but I'll say that Chartres truly feels like a day trip rather than just taking the metro out towards the end of the line (if that's an aspect you're looking for). Chartres is very interesting to see from the train as you're approaching as it sits on a hill and looms over the town giving an indication of how powerful it must have looked when originally built. There are also some pretty walks through the town (I was there in Feb. and I assume it's even more interesting in warmer weather with flowers blooming and all of the outdoor dining spots open).

Why choose? If you plan right, you could do both depending on how long your friends will be in V and how much time you want in Chartres. The train to C will be from Gare Montparnasse. Upon return you could hop on Metro line 13 to get up to St. Denis.

Since you have not been to Chartres, I would definitely choose that option. The cathedral is amazing and the town is charming. If you can take the Malcolm Miller tour, you will learn an incredible amount. I'm not sure he still conducts tours, however.

If you are especially interested in French royalty and their burial places, St. Denis is worth a visit. However, it is not really a day trip and can be done in an hour or two.

Though the basilica of St Denis is often claimed to be the first substantial Gothic building, it feels more Romanesque (and to my mind Germanic) than the much lighter NW European Gothic abbey churches and cathedrals that proliferate in France and England. Chartres is much more like what most of us have in mind when we think of a classic Gothic church.

Though St Denis is of huge importance in the history of architecture and of France, it's much more engaging intellectually than aesthetically: there isn't, to my mind, anything there than takes your breath away when you look at it (which there most certainly is in Chartres) - and the town of St Denis is breathtakingly charmless.

Both of them can easily be fitted into other journeys in France. It's not too great a detour to drive or get a taxi to St Denis en route from central Paris to CDG, or while driving from Paris or Northern Europe to SW France.

Depends what you're interested in. At some stage, you can't really say you've visited France unless you've been to both and you'll want to see the other, and I'd go back to either before subjecting myself to the tasteless ostentation of Versailles . Well worth trying to do both in the same day.

Chartres.


St Denis impressed me as just a big building with some dead royalty in the basement. It's not that it is uninteresting; it's just that if you must choose, it loses in my opinion.

Chartres is an architecturally interesting building with great glass.

Another vote for Chartres. It's a must see.

Chartres. And while there pay a visit also to La Maison Picassiette:

http://www.chartres-tourisme.com/en/fiche/An-exceptional-heritage/House-Picassiette/540/

Well you can't argue with unanimity! Chartres it is.

Should I buy a train ticket in advance? Gare Montparnasse is within walking distance of my hotel.

In case I wind up with some free time during another day, how long would the transport to St. Denis take? Denfert-Rochereau stop area.

flanner, Versailles was a mosh pit. I appreciated the gardens, but have enjoyed many other buildings much, much more.

We visited St Denis on our last trip to Paris. It is about a 30 minute metro ride and the Basillica is very close to the metro stop. As someone mentioned, about an hour is all that is needed. If there is any charm in the area I must have missed it. Interesting though to look around a bit to see another side of Paris. Definitely train to Chartres if you must decide between the two.

Been to both several times and clearly Chartres is the winner, though I enjoyed St-Denis. It's been awhile since my last trip there, but if I recall correctly, it was about 20-30 minutes to get to the station, then a brief walk to the cathedral and other sites. No need to buy a ticket in advance for either destination.

Is it possible to save money if the OP buys the Chartres ticket early (assuming she knows her date)? When I went I bought my ticket the morning of (believe it was good for any train, RT), and thought it was a bit expensive. I don't remember the price now, but remember thinking I should have planned ahead and tried to save some $$$.

You won't save any money buying your ticket to Chartres ahead of time as it is a fixed price. However, you may want to buy it ahead to make sure you don't get stuck in a long line waiting to buy a ticket and then miss your train. Of course, trains are frequent between Paris and you wouldn't have to wait long for the next one but if the OP's hotel is already near Gare Montparnasse then why not pop in and buy it if you've got a minute. The ticket is valid for 60 days so you can use it on any train at any time in that 60 day time frame. The cost of the ticket each way is 14.60€ (there are no such thing as round trip tickets).

I think I preferred St Denis, actually, but I just found it more interesting in terms of history and the funerary sculpture (and there are some good museums in town).

The ticket to Chartres isn't expensive, it's only 15 euro. You can never get discounts on local trains like that.

Well, apparently I was feeling extraordinarily cheap last year while I was in Paris because 30 euros or $40 doesn't seem like that much right now. Cash flow was a bit tighter last year...

I have yet to make it to either but if I had to choose I would pick Chartres because of Malcolm Miller. He is up there in years and won't be doing his tours forever...

Does Malcolm Miller always conduct the English tours at 12 and 2:45?

I will get the outbound ticket in advance. Since a couple of reviews suggest that people book both tours as they are all different, I am not sure when I want to head back to Paris. The train tickets don't sell out, do they?

s it possible to save money if the OP buys the Chartres ticket early (assuming she knows her date)?>

yes like Mystique says that Chartres train tickets are a flat fare - one ticket can be used on any train that day at least - be sure to validate the ticket yourself before boarding by sticking it in the composteur machines - compost it before boarding or you will be considered to be riding without a valid ticket and could face a steep fine.

Chartres hands down in this case - not only as flanner says much more breathhtaking but the town of Chartres is a sweet regional town as well with other sights (other ancient churches, little venice and Picassiette' House - one of the world's most prominent examples of Art Brut!)

St Denis is historical and monumental but lies in a dicey suburban area that I guess is not as grimy as it was when I last went to Saint-Denis (then there was even grafitti on the actual basilica outside walls!) - just an rather ugly downtrodden area that invites one to get the heck back to the train station ASAP.

Chartres by a million miles in this case. And Saint-Denis is really in Paris - just an RER stop or two over the ring road demarcating central Paris - so treat it like any other Paris sight and not some day trip.

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/chartres-malcom-miller.cfm

Malcolm Miller's eclectic tours of the cathedral make cold old stones spring to life - one of the reasons I'd go to Chartres to take this iconic legendary expert's tour of inside and out of the world-famous Chartres Cathedral - but read the above Fodor's thread as me and others have had disturbing things happen on Malcolm's tours - the way he can poorly treat folks - but not to throw the baby out with the bath water - nabbing Malcolm's spiel will be the highlight of your visit and perhaps the most memorable thing about the cathedral apart from its exqusite stained-glass windows. Note do not mistakenly think the word 'chartreuse' comes from some hues of colors in Chartres' cathedral glass!

>Saint-Denis is really in Paris - just an RER stop or two over the ring road demarcating central Paris

True, but if you're going to the basilica, the Metro station on Line 13, St.-Denis Basilique, is very close to the basilica. The RER station, on the other hand, is a 15-20 minute walk away.

For tickets to Chartres, if you are age 60+ you may request a "découverte senior" ticket. If your train operates during a "période bleue" (off-peak time), you will get a 25% reduction in fare.

MaineGG - thanks for the clarification on metro stop vs RER - take the metro by all means - even probably cheaper than the RER. And no reason to wander around this drab area any longer than you have to IMO.

Note what FMT says above, buy both outbound and return tickets at the same time as they're good on any train running that route for 60 days. No need to wait until you're sure of what time you want to return. And because of this, don't forget to validate each way as PalenQ states.

You beat me to it Sidny. And one more point. There are no reservations on these trains so tickets don't sell out. Even if it's standing room only. However, I do the Paris-Chartres to Chartres-Paris run somewhat frequently and you'll always get a seat. You'll be heading to Chartres in the early part of the day while most people are heading to Paris. And then in the afternoon you'll be heading to Paris while most people are heading out of Paris. In other words, you'll always be going in the opposite direction of the rush hour commute.

having been to Chartres a few years ago, and St. Denis just 2 months ago, Chartres wins hands down. much more interesting cathedral, much nicer surroundings.

but if you do decide to venture up to St. Denis, definitely take the advice above and go to the Basilica stop on the metro, NOT the RER. you have to walk through a very dodgy area from either RER line which I wouldn't have fancied doing by myself or without a load of other rugby fans around.

the brasserie opposite the cathedral was fine for a casual lunch though.

annhig - the area around Saint-Denis basilica and Saint-Denis itself has been cleaned up greatly in the past decade - just think what it were like a few decades ago when I first went there - like Dresden after the war practically!

I really liked Chartres, the cathedral was beautiful and the town still has some narrow, medieval little streets and alleyways that are fun to walk through. There some nice restaurants and cafes. It makes for a wonderful daytrip, as everyone has said.

And as others have said, Saint Denis is more like a half-day visit to a outer area of Paris, as opposed to a proper day trip. I absolutely LOVED the Basilica though, and probably prefer it over Chartres cathedral. I loved the funeral statues, many of entire families, including children, which span many centuries- they are not in the basement as someone said but on the main level of the church, so you can still admire the architecture at the same time. Some of the statues bear the remains of the paint that would have originally adorned them, some have centuries old graffiti carved all over them.

Not many tourists venture to St Denis, I was there in April a few years ago and practically had the Basilica to myself.

As for the town, it gets a bad rep but I had a lot of fun walking around and exploring. It's a working class immigrant community, perhaps not beautiful or post-card charming, but certainly colourful, lively, and interesting. I loved the couple of hours I spent there. If you are female (and alone and an obvious tourist, like I was) you will get stared down by some of the men, but I never felt unsafe. I was hit on once or twice, but it wasn't threatening, just annoying. I went on a Saturday and there were a lot of families out.

Here are some of my photos of St Denis, both the town and the Basilica:

http://anyportinastorm.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=paris&thread=5784&page=1#134571

<< Note do not mistakenly think the word 'chartreuse' comes from some hues of colors in Chartres' cathedral glass! >>

No, you'd have to go much farther south for that!

Glad to hear the OP has decided on Chartres. One of my favorite day trips from Paris! I never get tired of visiting the cathedral and town, or hearing Malcolm Miller make the stone and glass come alive. (He's gotten briefer and rather more crotchety with age, but the stories are always memorable. I still remember some of the facts I learned on my first tour with him over 20 years ago!)

We just returned from France a month ago, from a cruise on the Seine with Grand Circle and visited Chartres. We have not seen St. Denis. This is a particularly good time to visit Chartres, as they are well along into restorations, with some areas almost completed. I did a blog of the trip, with about 100 photos of Chartres, as well as many other churches and cathedrals. The blog is jackthetravelingman-seine.blogspot.com. They have some fantastic stained glass.

St Denis Cathedral is a gem but to appreciate it you need to be interested in what it uniquely offers.I lived in the area for two years ,it is no more dangerous and has no worse a record, than any other area of any major european city. Enjoy the experience.

Actually, Saint-Denis has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe but that's mostly due to gang activity in the housing projects, which doesn't affect the area around the Basilica.

I had almost the same experience in the St. Denis area as Apres_Londee described, i.e. I didn't feel unsafe, but I did feel like a total outsider. ALL men in the cafes, which I realize is still pretty common outside of big cities. It actually felt similar to the time a friend and I walked into a locals bar in West Virginia. I'm just sayin'...

The OP has decided already, but I'll also add my vote for Chartres for posterity's sake. I did enjoy St. Denis, though.

I didn't feel unsafe, but I did feel like a total outsider. ALL men in the cafes, which I realize is still pretty common outside of big cities. It actually felt similar to the time a friend and I walked into a locals bar in West Virginia. I'm just sayin'..>>

we walked up to the Basilica from the Stade de France RER B stop [just wanted to suss out the stadium too and find the entrance we'd need later on] and the first bit you walk through is pretty grim - I'm sure that if we'd had the nerve to walk into one of the bars, we'd have been looked at as if we had 2 heads. [a bit like when we walked into a bar in Prague that he been recommended by our taxi driver - pictures of Stalin in one corner and Havel in the other] but the Place opposite the Basilica was fine. We had lunch outside one of the brasseries, and it was quite reasonable - with lots of families and couples around.

when we walked back there were quite a few bars with flags and rugby ephemera on display and the atmosphere was a lot more friendly.

I'm sure the area is totally safe in the daytime and probably at night - just as others say a bit unnercing and very UN-Parisian in terms of ambience.

I don't think it's fair to say that St Denis is "un-Parisian". Paris has poor people, working class people, and immigrant people. I've walk through areas of Paris that were very similar to St Denis, including the slightly intimidating atmosphere of the St Denis side streets. But it was only in Paris where I saw a man buying drugs off the street in broad daylight with a little girl in tow.

And it's only the side streets in St Denis (or further away from the Basilica) where one might feel a bit intimidated. The main street and the square in front of the Basilica are NOT like that at all and one shouldn't even give it a second thought if they are thinking of visiting the Basilica. Safety will not be an issue, at least no more of an issue than it is anywhere else.

I did one of the Paris Walks at St. Denis several years ago - and it was wonderful, as the guide explained the history of the cathedral, the French royalty buried there, gothic architecture, etc. extremely well. However, I don't think they are doing that particular "walk" anymore. I can't imagine why they eliminated it - unless there wasn't enough interest. There were enough people the day I visited - but not mobs like in some of their other Walks.

But I concur with others here that Chartres is a more beautiful cathedral - and a great daytrip. However, the history at St. Denis is fascinating and well worth the visit, and doesn't take long to get there on the Metro. I would do both if you have the time.