Charge cards in Scandinavia

I am interpreting the statement as a rephrasing of the current practices not restricted to Scandinavian countries.

3% is the sum of 1% from MC/Visa plus 2% from your own bank.

The 7% is what you probably get if you allow a dynamic currency conversion.

I can't remember what the percentage was, if any, when I was there. I use a Captal One card for credit card purchases. I did use two debit cards while there, to get cash, both in Copenhagen and Stockholm. I used cash for most day to day things. I used my credit card a couple of times for a few larger purchases, like Christmas gifts for my neice.

Sorry....ATM cards, NOT debit cards.

I had a restaurant bill in Copenhagen that listed three separate totals from which to choose--cheapest for cash, slightly higher for a Denmark-based credit card, higher still for a non-Danish card. This was in 2005 and I don't recall the percentage differences, but that "pick your total" approach was memorable.

I didn't run into any extra surcharges in Norway (beyond your card's normal internation fees).

Some places in Denmark do charge a 2-3% surcharge for using a credit card, because of the extra costs involve to them. They pay a lot in commission to the cc companies, and if they don't have many payments with CCs it is even more expensive for them so they charge the commission to the customer. Most tourist places I would expect to not charge extra. If in doubt ask first.

The same is true in the Netherlands btw, but not usually in the sort of shops/restaurants most tourists would uses.

It is illegal under EU law for them to charge more for an EU credit card than for a Danish one, and I can't see them charging extra for a US one, over and above the commission charge.

In the US it's illegal to charge more for using a credit card instead of cash. To get around it, some businesses give a discount when paying cash. Kayd, maybe this is what you saw on your bill?

Thank you, all, now I have to think, do I want more points on my credit card or come home debt-free

No, it was straightforward "choose your price". I know VisaMC contracts with US merchants prohibit this (I don't think it is law, but the contract terms are enforceable), but it must be OK in Europe because I've seen Dutch hotels' websites clearly offering two different prices, cash or credit card. Just different practices home and abroad.

I was reading some menus on-line, and they confirmed what I read in that tour book: at least some restaurants in Copenhagen charge more if the credit card is out-of-the-country.

<<< In the US it's illegal to charge more for using a credit card instead of cash. >>>

In the UK it's totally legal.

In Denmark, it is legal for merchants to pass on the commissions on foreign issued credit cards to the customer, but not on Danish issued cards. If doing so, the shop has to display this fact in the shop. Typically done in fine print on the CC terminal. The shop's fee must not exceed the fee they pay to the credit card company, usually around 3%, but it can vary. All supermarkets do this, gas stations do, some restaurants as well. Hotels, department stores and shops catering to tourists do in general not apply the fee.

>>>It is illegal under EU law for them to charge more for an EU credit card than for a Danish one

Denmark is not bound by these rules, these rules were made optional for countries outside the Eurozone. Denmark chose not to adopt them.

I was reading some menus on-line, and they confirmed what I read in that tour book: at least some restaurants in Copenhagen charge more if the credit card is out-of-the-country.

This is absolutely, positively 100% correct. I have never seen a restaurant in Denmark that does not charge them. Even the local Thai place downstairs from me will charge these fees. Indeed, I was under the impression that it is a law that they must be charged. There is nothing you can do about it, other than paying in cash.

Taxis also all charge this surcharge.

Ordinarily it is "advantageous" for a commercial entity to accept a credit card...why?

It supposedly increases traffic flow and revenue opportunities (think about people who would NOT shop or eat in an establishment which did NOT accept credit cards)

It removes risk in terms of collecting any money, i.e., if the credit card charge is approved then the issuer takes on the risk of actually collecting the funds and the entity supposedly is assured of getting its money (unless there is a successful challenge).

For these "services" the issuer charges the entity anywhere from 3 to 5% or more.

So, the business which passes on these charges to the customer technically is getting all these "advantages" without "paying" for them...

Good to know. We are in Copenhagen on the 16th and 17th of August on a tour for our 50th. Our tour company includes dinner the first night, but not the second. While it's not a concern for 'one dinner', I can inform the others with us of the extra charge. Do the same charges apply when using the ATM? Thanks Richard

Visa and Mastercard charge the vendor between 1 and 3%, not 3-5%.

Do the same charges apply when using the ATM?

There is no charge from any of the Danish banks that I am aware of, but your own bank may charge a fee and/or give a less than optimal exchange rate when using the ATM.

Paul1950: I would be interested in a source for that information. Care to supply one and thanks.

BTW, if any charge is passed on to the consumer then it is the same deal.

Iris 1745, your bank, somewhere in the "locations" area, may have "international locations" - if there are any in the countries you visit, bring this ATM card. There is something about lower fees.

I think BofA is connected to some banks in France and Britain, and if I am not mistaken, Chase has affiliates in Copenhagen.

Anybody knows which banks have "sister banks" in Denmark and Norway?

Thanks 'travelgourmet' and Dayenu; Our two ATM cards are with small local banks with only a minimal charge. I wondered if the banks in Denmark were charging from their end. On our trips, we just inform the banks of our whereabouts and usually do not have a problem drawing money. When we need a CC we will probably use our visa [Chase]. Less charge than our Starwood American Express.

Dukey--good question; I just looked at this report and it suggests my Chase [visa] charges more than mu Starwood AX. www.indexcreditcards.com/internationaltransactionfees/ I have heard many times that Capitol One is the best.

Danske Bank ATMs are a good choice for using your US card. Nordea as well.

ATM's located next to a bank do generally not charge fees (and this is the vast majority), a few ATM's, typically located in supermarkets take fee.

>>>Ordinarily it is "advantageous" for a commercial entity to accept a credit card...why?

>>>It supposedly increases traffic flow and revenue opportunities (think about people who would NOT shop or eat in an establishment which did NOT accept credit cards)

Because Denmark's situation is not the same as the situation in the US. Danes do not use credit cards, they use the official Danish charge card, Dankort, which is totally free of fees for the customer and very cheap for the merchants compares to traditional credit cards. The reason is that this card is owned by all danish banks together, and much cheaper for the banks to run. Therefore, credit cards are mainly used by tourists. That is also the reason why credit card acceptance was very low in Denmark for non-touristy places before this fee was allowed. None of the supermarket chains in Denmark would accept credit cards before they were allowed to pass on the fee to the customers, now they all accept credit cards. A compromise was made, so that it was only allowed to pass on the fee on foreign cards. And of course, it's optional for the merchant if he wants to pass it on to the customer.

Hi; While I don't expect to be using to much cash, these are all helpfull answers to pass on to our traveling companions. Thanks

There should be a sign posted if they are going to charge you the fee for using a foreign credit card.

Every city I visit I buy a touristy type of T-shirt from - the idea is that at some point I'm going to make a quilt with all of the shirts. The shop I bought my T-shirt from had a large sign at the register and since I didn't have enough cash on me, I had to charge it. The exchange rate between dollars to DKK is already painful, and with the added fee it was the most expensive T-shirt I've bought so far on any trip.

chrismo1,
I read a lengthy thread on Flyertalk about the Dankort card and the 3.75% fee charged on foreign credit cards in Denmark. Since we often shop at supermarkets (we will be renting an apartment for a week in Østerbro this summer), will we be able to use our American ATM/debit card in a grocery store without a surcharge, as long as the transaction is PIN-based, not signature-based?

will we be able to use our American ATM/debit card in a grocery store without a surcharge,

No. Your American ATM/debit card will be processed just the same as a foreign credit card.

as long as the transaction is PIN-based, not signature-based?

I seriously doubt that you will be able to do a PIN-based transaction in Denmark with an American card. Heck, I have a Swiss card where I probably ended up signing 90% of the time I used it in Denmark. If you are going to supermarkets, I would probably plan on paying in cash. Many (if not most) of the clerks in Danish supermarkets will have trouble processing a non-PIN (really, non-Dankort) transaction. You might find some exceptions, but I wouldn't count on it.

It doesn't matter wether the transaction is PIN or signature based. You will pay the 3% fee in supermarkets in all cases. A few places will require a PIN, not accepting signatures, so get one. Even though you use a PIN, it is not treated as a cash advance.

A few places will require a PIN, not accepting signatures, so get one.

You are unlikely to get a PIN-based card in the US, much less one that is compatible with the Danish systems.

"You are unlikely to get a PIN-based card in the US" - WHAT???

Not sure about debit cards - I don't own one, but my ATM-only cards have 4-digits pin, and the credit card has a 4-digit pin for cash advances (that I don't use and don't recommend for cash)

Dayenu - I am speaking of debit and credit cards. Of course ATM cards have a PIN, as do many CCs, but they are generally not compatible with the PIN-based authentication systems used at points-of-sale in Europe.

Oh, I see.

Am going to Denmark, Norway and Sweden end of April - am purchasing their currency before leaving - average cost of dinner or lunch? Are any on them on euro?

Use ATMs card to get different sound-alike local currency (krone, krona, krone) in each of those three countries, not Euros. Expect costs to be higher than you are used to in the US.

average cost of dinner or lunch?

For dinner, count on upwards of $50 at any sit down place. Sometimes waaay upwards.

For lunch, count on at least $10, even at McD's or a kebab shop.

Agree that getting cash at the ATM is the way to go.

My source for the 1-3% is what MC and VISA charge me and what it says in the vendor agreements.

We just got back from Denmark, Norway and Sweden. Make sure you try to get a pin for your credit card! At the Kronborg Castle in Helsingor, we were able to use our AMEX to pay for the entry tickets, but the gift shop in the same facility wanted a credit card with a pin. Luckily, my daughter has one since she's a student there this semester. They asked for a pin in the airport as well when we wanted to charge something before leaving and didn't want the extra cash from the ATM.

Is this the same pin that I have in case I would need cash?

(and before you say anything, I won't get cash, the bank just sent the pin to me, and I keep the letter at home)

Is this the same pin that I have in case I would need cash?

No, it is not the same system and you will not be able to use a PIN for verification at a point-of-sale terminal. You will have to tell them that you don't have a PIN and have them process it with a signature.

AFAIK, there are no US-issued credit cards that are compatible with the Chip-and-PIN systems in use anywhere in Europe.

We were able to get a pin on one of our MasterCards that my daughter has. She called home after trying to use a card begging for a pin after being in Copenhagen for a couple of days. We called AMEX while in Denmark to request a pin while on vacation and weren't able to get one. The rep kept saying you can sign for it. One place did allow the signature, other places did not and we had to use my daughter's card.