car vs. trains in Switzerland

I've travelled with 4 large suitcases, one husband and two very small children by train.

- Your children aren't that small and can actually help a bit with the suitcases.

- Yes, it's a bit of a pain in the neck to move the cases but you'll have to load up the suitcases in Lauterbrunnen anyway.

- If it must be a car, see if you can rent a car for one day only to save costs (unless cost is not important and then this discussion is basically irrelevant.)

I can't advise about passes but your kids get to travel for free as long as they have Junior Cards (SFr. 20/each). The cards are good for one whole year.

Hi Deepa,

You know how much I hate to see cars on the road in lovely and pristine Switzerland, so of course I'm gonna try to convince you to ditch it.

You can send your cases by train separately, either the normal way or by Fast Baggage.

The normal way costs 10 chf per bag and will take two days; the Fast Baggage takes one day (in by 09.00, retrieve after 18.00) and costs 20 chf. Here's a link for more info:

http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/services/im-bahnhof/reisegepaeck.htm

In any case, one thing I've found to be true as I age -- you don't grow stronger as you grow older. I'd urge you to use your muscles as much as possible to stay young and fit longer . . .

And

. . . . don't you want your children's children to have clean air in Switzerland too??

((That was too much, eh? Couldn't help it, lol!))

s

BTW,

Gruyeres and Chatead d'Oex are between Interlaken and Montreux (on the Golden Pass route); seeing them from Saas Fee is a bit mis-placed.

s

Agree with the excellent advise from schuler and swandav as usual. Did you realise that Saas Fee is also car-free? You'll have to haul you luggage on a small electric car after parking at the lot - you cannot drive to your hotel's entrance. Also, seeing Gruyeres and Chateau-d'Oex from Saas Fee is VERY weird. It's actually easier from either Wengen or Montreux. And why bothering going to Saas Fee at all if you're not spending the days there? <shaking head>

These four changes to Wengen are indeed no problem IMO. Often trains arrive at and leave from the same platform, just vis-a-vis. Even if not - I've managed changing trains with large bags many, many times. It would be a total waste IMO to rent a car and then leaving it in the lot in Lauterbrunnen.

A Swiss (Saver) Flexi Pass would be excellent for you. Or the Half Fare Card for a month for each of the Adults. You have to do the calculation yourself. And take schuler's advice on the Junior Cards.

After an overnight flight and jetlagged there is no way that I would attempt to herd 2 kids and all that luggage through multiple train stations. Have you looked at the schedules? In mnay cases these changes allow only 5 minutes or so - and I wouldn't want to have to coordinate it.

You would actually do it in 3 changes, not 4: one at Bern or Spiez, one at Interlaken Ost, and one at Lauterbrunnen. Avoid the routes that require a change at the main station in Zürich as that is the difficult one. There are frequent trains that you can board right in the Zürich airport that go directly to either Spiez or Bern with no change.

These changes---expecially at Spiez and Interlaken Ost---are very easy. Often you get off the train, cross the platform, and board your next train---no changing between platforms.

Taking the car will require 3 transfers of luggage too: one from the baggage claim to whatever conveyance takes you to the rental car, one into the rental car, and one from the rental car to the train station at Lauterbrunnen and then onto the train to Wengen.

For a pass, compare the 3-day Flex pass (212 CHF if you get 2) with a half-fare card (99 CHF). The 3-day comes with 3 full days of fully-covered travel (not including high mountain lifts and trains) plus half-fare on other trips, so that is often the best. You can get a family card for free with the Flex Pass; I'm not sure about with the Half-Facre card.

If you are going up the Jungfraujoch, the Flexpass will give you only 25% reduction from kleine Scheidegg on up to the top; the Half-Fare card covers 50%. It is not easy to "do the math", and we often just opt for the convenience of the FlexPass (3 days or more when we don't have to stop at the ticket window).

Sorry, but that's too funny:

"After an overnight flight and jetlagged there is no way that I would attempt to ..." DRIVE!

Like enzian said.

"3 large suitcases" - have you considered just taking less stuff? You should be able to manage with one carry-on size case for each person, plus a day bag each.

I'm sure the Swiss trains are wonderful, but we love traveling by car. My husband is really into photography and loves being able to stop along the roadside when he sees a great photo.

We feel it gives us extra flexability to change our plans at the last minute and it cuts down on the walking and lugging of suitcases IMO. My husband has some mobility issues so the less walking and stairs he has to do the better.

I feel it's a personal choice and one should choose whichever mode of transport makes the most sense for them.

Good reply from Enzian and Ingo.

You'll do fine on the trains. If you really think you'll have problems transferring the suitcases, talk to a conductor and he'll make sure the connecting train will wait for you.

At the airport, go to one of the grocery stores (Migros is the cheapest) down near the train station and get some provisions for your train trip. You can eat and drink on the train.

Bettyk---we are just trying to point out that it doesn't make sense for them to make their decision based on luggage, expecially when they will be spending 8 days of their holiday in car-free villages. And they will be buying a train pass anyway to use the cablecars and mountain trains to best advantage.

Besides. . . kids that age love trains. (Mine are grown and still do!)

enzian, I'm sorry you felt the need to address me on this, but I believe I only stated our preference for car travel. I did not say that there was anything wrong with travel by train.

I also said quite plainly that it was a personal choice that each traveler needs to make based on their circumstances.

Also, I'm sure no one would disagree that most children love trains.

Nothing to be sorry over, or to argue for that matter.

I was agreeing with you that it is a matter of personal choice for each traveler. But your criteria for choosing a car---photographic flexibility and limited mobility---are so different from DeepaSinagapore's (children and luggage) that your preference for car travel isn't really relevant to their choice.

At least we are in agreement that the children's enjoyment of trains weighs in favor of that.

Your logic escapes me, enzian. I would think having flexability would be important when traveling with children. I also don't see how the train would be an advantage over a car when dealing with luggage. Luggage is a hassle either way so I'd figure it was a "draw".

I didn't say that the children's enjoyment of trains weighs in favor of trains. I just stated that most children love trains. However, it may or may not be the most appropriate means of transport in this situation.

I realize that many of the responders here feel train travel is always the best choice. I happen to feel differently.

I'm sure the OP doesn't mind hearing both points of view.

I am trying to figure out why most of the people on Switzerland board is SO anti-car!
Don't take me wrong, I appreciate and take in consideration all opinions. But I really don't understand why Switzerland is so different for the rest of Europe. I understand that rail system is outstanding, but rail system say in Germany or Austria are not that bad either (IMO). Parking situation is not very good in any European city. Gas and toll cost is probably comparable in most of European countries.
However, only for Switzerland, most of the people insist on ditching a car. Why???

bettyk -- I consider cars to be pretty much like cigarettes: dirty, expensive, habit-forming, and hazardous for public health. So I wonder if you would consider smoking in a public restaurant to be a "personal choice."

helen63 -- the point is that there are many car-free villages in Switzerland (not in Germany or Austria); the car just sits in a for-pay parking lot. In addition, Swiss trains are cheaper, faster, and more convenient than German or Austrian trains (I live in Germany). And -- Swiss air is really pristine, particularly in the car-free villages, so there is a reason to keep it so.

s

swandav2000, you are entitled to your opinion. But don't insult me by comparing my wanting to have a car on vacation to a smoker. I would certainly not insult you in the same way.

And, your insult will not keep us from driving in Switzerland in future. Until cars are outlawed in Switzerland, we will continue to do what we feel is right for us.

Thank you all for your replies. I think that sending in some bags separately in the train is the best compromise. In that case we get to go on the trains and don't need to lug all the heavy bags.

Swandav, my husband went to the site you posted above but couldn't get too many details about where it is located at the airport/train station. Has anyone used this before and do you know where it is exactly since we land at 8 am and I believe we need to give the bags in by 9 am?

helen---not anti-car---I have 2 of them myself---but the Swiss travel network is so wonderful and integrated (trains, boats, lifts) that you don't need a car there. I would rent a car in Germany, Austria, or Italy, but in Switzerland we use the Swiss travel network exclusively. They have built a wonderful system in part for convenience but also to keep the air clean. All the schedules are coordinated and generally you can step off a train and walk to the boat landing and find a boat waiting there for you and others to board. The same with the cablecars to high mountain villages.

Also, we spend much of our time in the car-free villages where a car would be useless (and incur parking fees). The few villages that are not reached by train can be reached by Postbus (and again, the schedules are coordinated so travel is seamless).

Note that of the people here who have spoken in favor of trains in Switzerland, 3 (Ingo, Schuler, and Swandav) live in either Switzerland or Germany. I live in the US but visit Switzerland as often as I can. I believe in paying attention to the local sensibilities which weigh in favor of using public transport over renting a private car.

I can't see any reason to rent a car and drive in Switzerland unless, like bettyk, you have special needs that cannot be addressed by the public transport system. And let me add that we have had wonderful experiences meeting and talking with Swiss people on the trains and buses and cablecars ---all part of the experience. I don't see how you would get that in a car.

And since we have both traveled in Japan, I could compare, but not now.

bettyk, it's a fact, not insult. I lived in Knoxville for eight years, and we used to get regular warnings that the air outside was dangerous, that children and old folks ought to stay inside. The lung association recently published that six out of ten Americans have unhealthy air.

I don't mean to insult you, just to wake you up. Truly. If we don't stop this trend, in a few generations folks will be wearing gas masks.

s

Sorry Deepa, I passed by your post too quickly.

At the train stations, there is a counter for luggage handling. It will on one side of the main counter, and it will have a pictogram of a suitcase above it -- can't miss it!!

You just take your case there and hand it in, easy as pie! I'm glad this solution will work for you. Switzerland really is a great, user-friendly place!

s

Deepa -

We used the baggage delivery service a few times in Switerland and it worked beautifully.

If memory serves, the luggage rail service is located in the rail station beneath the Zurich airport. We just followed the signs that said Gepäck or Gepäckservice.

Don't worry, it's easy to find. Just ask when you arrive in Zurich.

Hi again Deepa,

Yes, the train station is indeed in the basement of the airport; here's a link to a map:

www.zurich-airport.com/PortalData/2/Resources/images/maps/Airport_Shopping_gr.jpg

You can enlarge it by clicking on it.

Also, be sure to stop off at one of the cafes or grocery stores on the levels between the terminal and the train station to buy a few goodies to eat on the train -- fresh bread, Swiss cheeses, smoked ham, German yogurts. Your first journey will be a lot of fun!

s

Bettyk
" I'm sure the Swiss trains are wonderful, but we love traveling by car. My husband is really into photography and loves being able to stop along the roadside when he sees a great photo. "

I reckon Ingo would find that even funnier like I do!
Have you ever driven in Switzerland?

It's not like big wide open country with Interstaters and pull-offs in the more scenic areas and your husband would be more able to be safely doing some photography using train travel and his feet but not associated with a vehicle other than for keeping of the roads out of their way.

Now wait a minute. 90% of the Swiss I know have cars. We need to get around too the and public system, although very efficient, doesn't take us to every spot in Switzerland or doesn't carry our groceries, or doesn't get us home after 11 pm.

As for stopping and taking for photos, it is a wonderful idea that is indeed doable. Sure you might have to drive a bit before you find a pullout, but lots of people stop and take pictures. Taking pictures from the train can be quite difficult because of the trees and poles that swoosh by.

Economically, taking the train is for me cheaper because the kids go free and I can go for half the price. Or even better, if I plan ahead, I can get a Day Pass for SFr. 32. Usually I take the train when I go to Tessin but I when I go to Luzern, I drive because I stay later than the last train.

It is a goal of the Swiss government to stress the use of public transportation because of clean air, reduction of traffic jams and decrease car accidents. It's also a great way to have a drink and not worry about drinking and driving.

If someone wants to rent a car, then do it without feeling guilty. However, if you are travelling to car-free villages, it really does seem a bit silly to rent a car unless you're doing a lot of outings away from the village.

By the way, a lot of our rental cars have a licence plate starting with AI because rental car taxes are cheapest in Appenzeller Inneroden.

for the average tourist IMO Switzerland is one place where you should go by public transit - especially if thinking of going to places like the BOB where you cannot drive above Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen or Zermatt, etc. but must pay dearly to park your car. And the public transit system in Switzerland is so so fantastic - they say there is no town more than five or so miles from a train station and then buses fan out from stations to practically every hut. For lots of great info on Swiss trains, passes, etc i always point to some great links: www.swisstravelsystem.com (links here to the Swiss Railways or www.sbb.ch); www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html. Swiss Passes are sold at Swiss stations but when i recently compared prices are significantly cheaper for the exact same pass if bought in the States (not sure about other countries) - and this has been the case for quite some time - i have not checked in some weeks however but assume it's still the case.

Thank you, schuler!

And, yes, we have driven in Switzerland numerous times. We lived in Europe for a few years and did a lot of traveling by car as well as several recent vacation trips.

And, Bushranger, have you ever tried to take QUALITY photos while you are on a fast moving train?? Obviously not, or you wouldn't have made the statements you made.

The point IS, we still have a CHOICE as to whether we want to rent a car or go by train. We prefer the car. And, as schuler says, we don't feel guilty about it because it is what works best for our vacation since we don't spend our time in car free villages.

My husband is really into photography and loves being able to stop along the roadside when he sees a great photo.>

but with a car you have to stop - or at least the driver does to see anything at all - otherwise his/her eyes should be peeled on the road - especially side roads in Alpine areas - thus the driver sees little of the great scenery perhaps.

But folks who like to drive - fine - the point is that most novices coming to Switzerland will go to a Berner Oberland type place where cars are rather useless.

I think I would have to learn from my own mistakes, because I have chosen to drive for my Switzerland vacation in September.
I would probably choose trains, if I did not have Italian portion in my plans. It was getting too expensive to buy a train pass for 2 in Switzerland, and then rent a car for Italian portion. It actually costs almost the same to rent a car for two weeks in Switzerland, as to rent for one week in Italy. I agree that a car would not be used for several days, but some hotels (like mine in Lauterbrunnen) have free parking.
I hope I don't regret my decision too much...

Helen,

Just make sure that the rental rate includes all the necessary insurance coverage for Italy. My understanding is that rental rates are higher for cars picked up in Italy because of the extra insurance requirements.

Many people aren't comfortable driving in Europe period. Having lived there, we have no problem with that.

While we can't always find a convenient place to pull over, most of the time it's been very easy. And, in Switzerland, one doesn't have to look too hard to find a beautiful photo just waiting to be taken!

Enzian, if I rent a car in Italy I can not decline CDW insurance, even if I have it covered by my credit card. If I rent a car in Switzerland, and take it to Italy, I actually can decline CDW.
I called my credit card. They said,that they will cover CDW in Italy, if I can decline it with a rental company. I hope this works, as they explained...
Possibly, I need to buy CDW just in case...

helen--so you've looked into that--that's good. I could never figure out if the CDW and theft protecton are mandatory for any car being driven in Italy, or just for cars rented there. I know Auto Europe is very definite about requiring it and they also say (on their website) that credit cards won't cover cars driven in Italy. So it's good you asked directly. You might want to get that in writing just in case.

Enzian, it is a good idea about asking confirmation in writing. I will ask them about it. I will be renting my car thru Autoeurope, so I will confirm with them too.

AutoEurope is only the broker, not the car rental company, so most likely they can only tell you that the car rental company's policies will apply, whatever they are.

Schuler, I'm not certain if it was my comments that struck you . . ..? My concerns are not so much about people with families who need to drive, or people with demanding jobs, or people with jobs with odd hours. Also, the elderly or people with disabilities would be seriously hurt if they could not drive (my old friend near Zürich had a car and drove). I'm also not addressing visitors who drive in rural France or Italy, where a bus may come by two or three times a day.

But for able-bodied people who are visiting a place where busses, trains, ferries, and cable cars come by so frequently and go (practically) everywhere, then, yes, I do think that driving is a disservice to all of us. Unfortunately, I have seen this truth. I've seen it in Knoxville, and I was actually shocked to see harmful and ugly smog over Lake Geneva. It makes me angry that some are in denial or don't seem to care, and that smog will continue to grow. So I'm a real pest; I'm like the friend or relative who will constantly nag smokers to quit smoking!

(((You should see me lecturing my friends, fellow military retirees and active duty folks living here, trying to get them to use the town busses or bicycles. It's mostly funny, it's so futile!!)))

Anyway, I have often gone back to a place that looked intriguing when I saw it from a train; I've gone back on foot, on bike, and by return train. If I go by return train, it's a detour that may take me two-three hours, but that's one reason why I enjoy travelling really slowly.

helen63, I do hope that my rants here do not bring a sour taste to your Swiss trip! I do hope you enjoy it, but I also hope that when you return, you'll give the trains a try! I bet you'll see how easy and convenient they are!

Anyway, with love.

s

Swandav2000, you've made at least one convert. I'm going to Brannenburg in September and rather than renting a car I'll be taking the train from the Munich Airport. It will take only a few minutes longer than driving. Since I plan to cycle and walk while there I wouldn't need a car anyway. Of course, if it rains the whole time I may be thinking of you less kindly. But then I can take the train down to Kufstein instead of cycling.

I'm not a smoker, but I think your comparison of driving to smoking is unfair to smokers. Driving is way worse for the environment than is smoking in a restaurant.

If you travel by plane, the choice of train vs car will make no major difference to the impact you already made to get to your destination. But at least it is good for your nerves to travel by train and helps to reduce road congestions.
So us locals can have more fun cruising the mountains roads in our cars

PS, and sorry for hikjacking the thread:
Here is a recommendation for a very nice hike in the area you will be traveling to, Roger1x:
Pendling mountain, already in Tirol, near Kufstein or to be precise near the village of Thiersee. It's a moderately 90min uphill hike, but eventually you will have all the river Inn valley and Kufstein laid out at your feet, and stunning views into the Wilder Kaiser range and the 3K peaks as a backdrop. Plus a nice mountain hut to eat and drink with that view.

I was in Switzerland for a week earlier this month and loved traveling using the trains and trams. In 7 days I was able to visit Zurich, Luzern, Konstanz, Bern, Interlaken/Jungfraujoch, and Basel. I think I'd waste a lot of time and money if I rented a car and drove to my destinations.

I especially liked how the swiss trains and trams are so clean and quiet.

Cowboy, Thanks for the recommendation about walking up Pendling. I see that Thiersee is only at 616M so maybe I could cycle down from Brannenburg and then take the walk. I'm not a huge fan of cycling up hills, but in the past I've riden to the Walchsee without any problem and it looks like the elevation change is about the same.

I try to ignore the impact of my flying (the plane flies whether I'm on it or not, completely bogus I know).

Swandav, I actually agree with your points...

I don't mind train travel at all... I used train/buses in Japan, Great Britain, Greece, Germany, etc...

I've chosen to drive this time, because I think it is more convinent for my specific needs. Like I said, I would probably take trains if I planned to stay in Switzerland for the entire trip.
Anyway, thank you for good wishes! At least, I would not feel too guilty for renting a car...

Why should you feel guilty? The train thing for the average first-time visitor to Switzerland, who ends up for several days in say the Berner Oberland and thus has no use possibly for a car in those environs want to go there by car?

But for most of the country, which is not mountainouse, the car, like in any country, opportunes that folks can set their own schedules and simply put their bags in the car parked near their hotel room and go on - 95% of Switzerland or so i would say is more like Burgundy or Bavaria then the Berner Oberland area. But most folks just, logically IMO, go only to areas where cars are useless. so it depends on where in Suisse you go i guess. But renting a car - no reason to feel guilty IMO

Roger1x, thank you for your kind comments! Please come back and let us know how it went!

Cowboy1968, good point! Still, I think every little bit helps!!

s

Swandav, I love your message about trains. No offence taken at all. It's the message most Swiss try to live by too but theory and reality aren't always the same.

I do agree that if you just go to the main sights, a train is very handy, part of the fun and allows you to relax.

However, if you enjoy driving over passes, being 100% spontaneous, or have lots and lots of luggage to tote around, then a car makes sense too.

It's a vacation and people should have the opportunity to choose whichever way of transport is most suitable for them.

However, if you enjoy driving over passes>

ah yeh - driving over passes like the Gotthard, Simplon or Grand Bernard (sp?) passes - on those hairpin like turns - spiraling up to the summit, where sits the ubiquitous hotel/cafe with sun terraces. Or the Sustenen or Grimsel passes out of the Interlaken area - it was really a special thrill driving these 0 i saw lots of folk on bikes as well - a whole different thrill. A whole different landscape - a top of the world one lies above the main road and rail tunnels that burrow far under them.

Wow! So many 'pro' for having a car now!!! Finally, I feel better...

With that, how would you recommend to drive from Luzern to Lugano. Tunnel? No tunnel?

If driving, I would choose a pass over a tunnel any day. Just watch out for the motorcycles!

Thank you, Enzian!!!

We had this conversation about car insurance in Italy, so I am posting for those who has interest in this:

I called my credit card again. They confirmed that they normally do not provide CDW coverage for Italy. However, if car reted in other country and then driven to Italy, and CDW insurance is declined, then they will cover CDW. I requested this in writing.

I also called Autoerope, and they confirmed that I can decline CDW if renting in Switzerland, even if car is driven to Italy.

done both trips and find the train is just easy the town of wengen is small and you will hav eto constantly travel, but the train is easy stayed in wnegen 2 nights and we moved to grindelwald which had allot more going on we love switzerland have beenthere with and without kids,

actually the trip i mentioned we drove to lauderbrunnen with our car from the airport without your own car you will be limited to the train schedule interlaken is a town where you do not need the car and it is one change in lucerne from zurich main station

schuler - I don't think it is the message that Swiss people try to live by, I think it is the message that they think they should try to live by. And, by extension, they try to make others think they try to live by it.

Indeed, most of the Swiss people I know have cars. Most drive to work. Parking lots are abundant and not overly expensive. Heck, I have never seen so many Porsches and Mercedes in one place. I mean, I had never actually seen a Maserati dealership until I came to Switzerland!

The best way to reduce reliance on cars is to make it prohibitively expensive. To date, only a couple of countries (Denmark and Singapore, come to mind) actually put their money where their mouth is. And Denmark, at least, has enough loopholes that I question if it doesn't undermine the intent.

At the end of the day, I don't think people, whether in Switzerland or France or the US are as interested in reducing car traffic as they might claim. I think that, like most difficult choices, what people really want is to change the behavior of others, not their own.

I disagree, travelgourmet. Remember, you live in a very rich area where you'll see lots of expensive cars and an international way of life. Not all of Switzerland is like that. Although cars offer convenience and useful transportation, lots of Swiss also try to use public transportation for its efficiency, convenience and cost effectiveness.

Switzerland is very proud of its public transport. If the SBB is 5 minutes late, it can cause a public outcry. The dreaded Cisalpino is a thorn in Switzerland's otherwise very efficient transport system.

This is slightly off topic...

I think that visiting most major cities as a tourist in Switzerland is easier and more efficient without a car.

However, if one wants to drive a car, let them deal with traffic and parking fees.
I wouldn't try to guilt them into thinking that the Swiss discourage cars and look at them as a burden to traffic & the environment. The best solution will be to have smaller cars that do not pollute the environment (and perhaps even contribute to the well-being of our environment like plants?) and can be parked in a more efficient manner (stacked easily on top of each other?). When that time comes, trains vs. cars wouldn't be an issue. Those of us who like trains will take trains, and those of us who prefer cars can still drive cars.

I hope that will be possible soon.

Helen----nice work! Thank you for checking on that and posting the results.

Although cars offer convenience and useful transportation, lots of Swiss also try to use public transportation for its efficiency, convenience and cost effectiveness.

Schuler - I don't disagree with this at all. Indeed, I use the train because it is more efficient for my commute than driving. My point is that I don't believe Swiss people do it out of some altruistic desire to save their environment. If they did, then why do the Swiss seem so ready to buy an expensive car and drive it when they get the money? Accordingly, I see no reason to feel bad about driving in Switzerland, if you want the flexibility.

"If they did, then why do the Swiss seem so ready to buy an expensive car and drive it when they get the money? "

I live in a small town out in the countryside. We see more Fords, Suburus and tractors than BMWs and Porsches. Today we were in Baar at the Athletikum. My children were so surprised at all the English speaking customers. Then we drove to McDonald's near Zug. My kids started counting all the corvettes and porsches. It was unusual for them to see those kind of cars.

Most Swiss don't buy expensive cars. However, the area around Zug and Zürich, as well as around Geneva lake, have an abundant amount of residents who can afford such cars.

By the way, I wonder how many of those drivers who own expensive cars are actually Swiss.

schuler - Whether a Ford or Maserati, the point is that the Swiss seem very happy to drive when it suits them and few seem very guilty about it.