AndreaWhyte

Hi,

My husband, two teenage daughters and I are flying into Venice, staying for 2-3 days, traveling to Como, staying for 2-3 days and then traveling to the Grindelwald/Jungfrajoch area of Switzerland, staying for 4 days and then flying out of Zurich. I am torn between taking a car or the train. I would like to take the train for the experiences that go along with it but wonder if a car would be more convenient with the luggage. I am open to taking each for certain parts of the trip. Do you have any advice or recommendations?

Thanks,
-Andrea

PalenQ

Well returning a car in another country from where you picked it up usually means prodigously steep drop-off fees for doing so.

Trains are very modern in Italy and if you go first class there will be ample room to easily stow luggage - often empyt seats IME to put bags on too. And once in the Jungfrau Region cars are useless - banned from beyond Grindlewald and Lauterbrunnen so you will have to pay a lot to park the car - or of course return it upon reaching Interlaken.

But even in Italy cars are useless in cities where wide swaths have been made off-limits to private vehicles. And once in Como lake boats are a fun way to get around rather than driving on the congested IME roads around the lake.

In Switzerland you may want to look into the Swiss Transfer Ticket - which gives you a train ride from any border point to anyplace in Switzerland - and then a train ride out to any border or airport - like Zurich. and with it you can buy a Half-Fare Card at half-price or about $65 and get half-off everything that moves in the Jungfrau Region and Switzerland as a whole.

Anyway for lots of great stuff on trains and the Jungfrau Region in particular check these IMO superb sources: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.swisstravelsystem.com.

Dukey1

Does money matter? By that I mean the probable cost of dropping a rental from one country in another (if that is what you plan on doing).

As to the luggage convenience issue: I assume everyone in the group is willing and able to handle the luggage. I'll stay away from the whole "how much do you really need?" ages-old question.

If you do decide to do this (easily done) trip by rail you are going to have to decide your routing (and there are at least two you could use).

Dukey1

In terms of rail costs in Switzerland, how old are the children?

PalenQ

dukey makes a good point - any child traveling with a parent can get a Free Family Pass to match whatever the parent(s) buy and never pay a dime for any transportation ever as long as the parents pay or have a pass, etc. Comes free with Swiss Passes, Half-Fare Cards, etc.

greg

Advice? Finish the car vs. train analysis.
What you have listed has unlikely to have covered relevant aspects.

Current thinking:
Car = convenient with luggage
Train = experience

Areas to research:
<b>Car</b>
<u>Cost </u> = rental + drop off fee (more than 300EU) + gas + toll + parking + allowance for getting caught by ZTL (if you are stopping by towns with these) and other cameras + highway vignette in Switzerland
<u>Size</u> If you are coming from a country where rental prices go up gradually as the size increases, it is not the case in Italy. There is a steep rise in rental cost as car reaches full size and up. Also, if you travel like cruisers, you need a big car to be able to hide your entire luggage in trunk for security.
<u>Transmission</u> A default car comes with manual. If you must rent an automatic, you pay quite bit more as well reducing the availability of rental fleet.
<u>Luggage</u> Even if you are ok while driving, you cannot necessarily drive up to accommodations to drop your luggage. If you stay in picturesque Wengen, Mürren, etc, in Berner Oberland, you are not allowed to drive up to town. You park your car at lower ground and take what you need on an aerial gondola or train – anyway. In addition, you cannot count on having direct elevator access to your higher level rooms. If you packed heavy assuming you have a car, you will still have to carry your things up to your room if you cannot way for someone from the hotel to help you. One of my favorite inn in Italy is run by a little woman and all the rooms require two flights of stairs or higher. She is not in any position to help up carry our luggage.

A car may be essential or PITA for visiting certain areas. It depends on where you are heading.

<b>Train</b>
<u>Cost</u>. www.trenitalia.com for Italy portion and www.sbb.ch for Switzerland portion. Swiss railpasses come in different types each including different areas of high mountain transportation. Even if you drive, you still have to sort through regional rail passes in Berner Oberland. For travel like this, rail pass in Italy does not make sense.
<u>Luggage</u> You take care of your own luggage. Down the underpass, up the underpass to the platform level, onto the train, off the train. There is usually an elevator somewhere.

Dukey1

At this point I think we need more clarification from the OP on certain issues. The OP has said they might be willing to use both a car and the train for certain portions so I am wondering just how important the "luggage convenience" factor really is.

kja

greg nicely summarizes key considerations. I would add: With a train, EVERYONE (including the person who would drive) can appreciate the scenery. (And the scenery in this part of the world can be truly breathtaking!) And if weather is less than ideal, no worries! So my recommendation is to take TRAINs unless you have an extraordinarily compelling reason to use a car!

If luggage is a concern, (a) pack less and (b) consider the excellent luggage forwarding options available through Swiss Rail:
http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-service...s/baggage.html

AndreaWhyte

Thanks everyone for your responses and input. I REALLY appreciate it.

I looked at the websites and they are great. Found that there is a jazz festival going on when we will be there - yeah!!

After reviewing the other information and getting your feedback, I agree and have decided that the train is the way to go! It is so prominent in Europe and although I am not actually going there, when in Rome, ....... Will be good to teach my 19 and 17 year olds to be flexible and how to travel (although they actually already know this) but good for the experience and to talk with/meet other travelers.

Given that, I am still not quite sure about which way to do this. Again we are going to Venice, Lake Como, Oberland, and then flying out of Zurich. Do I get a RailEurope Pass to travel all of Europe or instead a separate one for each country including the Swiss Transfer Ticket and a Half-Fare Card which might include the scenic passes? I hoped to incorporate the scenic passes into our actual moving from one touring destination to another but don't think it would work out like that.

Again, thanks so very much for your help!

Dukey1

I would NOT get any sort of pass for your rail travels IN Italy. Why? Simply not cost effective I suspect especially if you are simply using the train to get FROM Venice to Lake Como (and BTW are you going to the city of Como or to somewhere ON the lake? that is going to make a difference including for your trip up to the Berner Oberland).

The kids are too old to benefit from that Swiss Family card

Do NOT get ANYTHING from RailEurope. Why? RE is the North American marketing arm of the combination of several European railroads (it started out as owned by the French adn Swiss national railways as a way to promote rail travel on their systems)

You can buy tickets on line at the various rail sites such as Trenitalia.com or Italiarail.com (charges a small fee for tickets) and print those tickets out at home.

You can use the Swiss fed site www.sbb.ch/en which will sell you tickets as well as any passes you might need.

Be aware that once you get up above places like Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald the various Swiss rail passes do not give 100% coverage and there are regional passes you can buy.

As to the trains and that luggage. For Venice: assuming you are staying closest to the Santa Lucia rail station be aware that it is a so-called "stub end" station and the trains back into it and trains start out from there. Get to the platforms early and be amongst the first people to board (those teenagers can help with the luggage) that way there will be plenty of luggage space.

AndreaWhyte

Yesterday I made a reservation at Hotel Borgo Antico which looks like it is in Como and close to the Como S. Giovanni and Como Nord Lago stations. Not sure if this is the best place to be since I would like to explore further up the Lake so I am willing to change this if it would make sense to with the next destination being Berner Oberland.

Great to know that about RailEurope. Thank you so much! Also good to know about getting on the platforms early to ensure luggage space. Yes, the teenagers will be happy to help).

In Venice, we are staying at Ca'Piscani in Dorsoduro.

So buy separate tickets from Trenitalia.com or Italiarail.com and sbb.ch/en instead of a combined pass?

Dukey1

I would try using the Trenitalia site first. I use Italiarail which sells the exact same tickets as Trenitalia but adds a surcharge because I find it easier to use but that is ME.

I say no to a pass because passes become more economical the more you use them and for getting from Point A to B (to possibly C) in Italy would imply, to me, that point to point tickets would be more economical for you than a pass.

Do we need to get into the whole "secrets of the universe and about as controversial" question of traveling in First vs Second class? Regionals vs Frecce (higher speed, fewer stops) services?

Lake Como, or more correctly Lago di Como: a lot of people are going to tell you that being in the so-called mid-lake region (the triangle formed by the towns of Varenna-Esino/Bellagio/Menaggio) is the "better" location. And not to mention the rail possibility of traveling into Switzerland over the Bernina Pass as opposed to using the Simplon Tunnel to get to the Berner Oberland.

AndreaWhyte

Alright, I will check Trenitalia first.

Sure, we can address the whole "secrets of the universe and about as controversial" question of traveling in First vs Second class? Regionals vs Frecce (higher speed, fewer stops) services since I will probably learn something from it.

That is great to know that the mid-lake region of Como is the "better" location.

How would I be able to travel from the mid-lake region of Como to Berner Oberland over the Bernina Pass? I am not sure what you mean by that. What would you recommend to be the best way to get there?

Again, thank you so very much for your help!

PalenQ

The Bernina is a major detour off the direct Italy-Brig-spiez-Interlaken route - add two days and you could fit it in - train to Milan - Tirano - St Moritz - Andermatt - Goschenen - postal bus to Meiringen - train to Interlaiken - a very scenic but cumbersome route pr St Moritz-Zurich-Ingterlaken may be a tad faster.

There are always benefits to first class and that's why so many Europeans pay extra to ride in it - that said in Switzerland the difference is IME much less but still significant.

AndreaWhyte

Yes, I agree that the Bernina would not make sense to do since it is a major detour.

I see on the sbb.ch website that the

Como-Milan-Brig-Spiez-Interlaken route is 6 hours and the
Lugano-Luzern-Oftringer-Bern-Thun-Spiez-Interlaken route is 5 hours

Is there a more direct route from Lugano over the Bernina Pass or Simplon Tunnel? I am still not sure what Dukey1 meant by that but it seems like that is a much better way to go.

Thanks!

PalenQ

Is there a more direct route from Lugano over the Bernina Pass or Simplon Tunnel?>

No!

kja

With your time frame, I wouldn't try the route through the Bernina Pass. It is magnificent IMO, but you have other wonderful options that won't take so much time. I'd probably take the Lugano route, but admit that I'm not familiar with the one through Milan.

I was pleased with second class. I traveled a bit off season, though, and don't know if that would make a difference.

Hope that helps!

AndreaWhyte

Still not completely getting it but would it make sense to take the Wilhelm Express? That looks like it goes from Lugano to Lucerne to Interlaken. We are going in July in case I did not already mention that.

kja

As I understand it, the so-called "panaromic routes" -- the named ones offered by private companies -- generally follow the same tracks used by the Swiss rail system, which means you have a choice: take the "special" train (in which case you should reserve in advance) or take the regular sbb train that travels the same tracks. If you go for one of the non-sbb routes, you may have a more direct route and you may have a seat on a train with more window space (particularly if you ride 1st class), but you will have less freedom about when to go and how to route. I could be wrong, and I trust that experts will chime in.

I went in shoulder season and didn't travel the route of the Wilhelm Express, so I can't offer specific feedback. Sorry!

Good luck!

PalenQ

Yes there are local trains over the same route but they are slower as they stop more and you may need to change trains - like on the Glacier Express Zermatt to St Moritz - takes 8 hours on the direct Glacier Express but requires 2 or more changes of trains on the locals - can't do in one day practically.

But yes on the Bernina and Golden Pass routes locals are not that much slower and yes you can just hop on board - usually not that full - panoramic cars are more a gimmick IMO - regular trains have large windows to see the scintillating scenery.